Dassualt Mercure Survivors

[Skipness One Echo]

Photos: Dassault Mercure 100 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

This fellow at Marseilles and the one other at Le Bourget seem to be the only two extant. Can anyone
1) Confirm this
2) Advise if F-BTTH is visible and photographable from anywhere publically accesible.

Cheers

[Davidsoffice]

Using the same source as that photo you can also see those at Orly, Montpellier and Speyer so unless the scrappy has been very busy recently.... Try Dassault Mercure production list

[oldchina]

Don't listen to your customers

Along with the A310, the Mercure offers a great lesson to manufacturers.

Don't listen to the airline who says they want a dedicated short-haul plane, with its "lower costs".

If they ever buy it they can sell or scrap it after 5 years. The manufacturer is stuck with the legacy for the next 20 years.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Surely there's one at Bordeaux Merignac too, on the Mil side of the airfield?

[Proplinerman]

Here's a link to a photo of the one preserved at the Technik Museum in Speyer, Germany:

ScanImage28 580 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Couldn't agree more with what you say Old China: another prime example is the Trident: HS were completely dictated to by BEA on the Trident 1, so that it was too small to appeal to almost any other airline, the 727, DC9 and 737 waltzing off with massive worldwide sales, while the Trident sold only to BEA, Cyprus Airways, Iraq Airways, CAAC and Northeast (part of BEA by the time they ordered it in very small nos).

Then, to add insult to injury, when BEA found the Trident 1 was too small/getting too small due to traffic growth, they went back to HS to get them to develop (no doubt at considerable expense) the Tridents 2 and 3, neither of which, I think, found any buyers outside of BEA and CAAC. It was only because BEA were forced to order the aircraft (fair enough in the circumstances, as they were responsible for bringing it into being in the first place) in its 1, 2 and 3 form (all the while hankering for the 727), that the production run got to a reasonably substantial total (for a British airliner of that era-it was utterly hammered on sales by the American types mentioned above).

Mind you, HS didn't do themselves any favours by their very generously allowing representatives from Boeing to have a full tour of the factory etc in the early 1960s-enter the 727, the most successful jetliner of all time, until sales of the 737 surpassed its (huge) total.

[Jig Peter]

And ...

And as well as the 72 and 73, there's always the A320 which BA deigned to take over from BCal - I remember Mrs. T eventually agreeing to lend some money to develop it - while throwing out BAe's attached requests for money for Jetstream 41 and the 146 - commenting in her inimitable way "I hope it's not going to be another Concorde" ... She certainly got her money back in the royalties !

Addendum: I did hear about that time that deHs and Boeing were "sort of" going to do what became the 727 together, as the BEA and PanAm specs were so similar, whence the Boeing team's presence at Hatfield, but when BEA's "experts" decided they wanted an aircraft about half the size of their original idea, Boeing's team packed up and went on to do the aircraft themselves. Later "experts" from BEA decided the 727 was what they really, really wanted, having seen what the Trident could (or couldn't) do. But Mrs. T saw through the manoeuvre and told them where to get off.

[Proplinerman]

Well yes re the 727/Trident bit, but Mrs T wasn't the PM when BEA were "pining for the fjords/the 727." That was the late 1960s and Harold Wilson was PM, so presumably he put a stop to this-and quite right too, as BEA were the cause of the Trident's failure: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

[pax britanica]

As a regular vsitor to Bordeaux (altho not in last 4 months) I can confirm there is/was a Mercure there as well as a Caravelle and a Zero G experience A300.

Not sure these are on the military side although they are on opposite side of the field from the main terminal. I think that area where they are is the Avions Marcel Dassault ramp along with assorted airbusses being painted, mended, fitted out etc etc

One thing about the Mercure that strikes me is that it seems to have very marked dihedral on the tailplane-was this to clear engine exhaust as not that much known about underwing engines in Europe when the Mercure designed?
PB

[Jig Peter]

Odd graph

There was once a theory that the Mercure was Dassault's attempt to queer the A320's pitch with an aircraft in the 737's mould, but made to measure for the "long" legs of the Air Inter network (sort of Biarritz - Paris). Air Inter's pilots apparently loved it for its "fighter-like" handling - they were a fairly hairy bunch, some of them, "back then" ...
An Airbus salesman once told me that some potential (in Dassault's innocent eyes) customers were bemused to see a Payload/Range "curve" consisting of a square, with no angled line between MTOW and Max. Pax. The D-team wasn't invited back ...
A "political" aeroplane, really - no idea personally why the tailplane's dihedral was so marked - there was another suggestion that it was supposed to be an "up yours" to Airbus as a whole ...

NB - With the Falcon bizjets though they certainly got something bvery right indeed.

* That bit seems to need some corrective study - I never saw the "curve" in question.

[A30yoyo]

The Labour Government of 1968 made BEA buy a mix of Trident 3Bs and BAC-111 Srs500s with a subsidy instead of the 727/737 mix BEA wanted


Is the Mercure F-BTMD still around?...Perhaps the most interesting one...was built as a shorter pre-production airframe, flew in the Paris air Show, 1975....was the only Mercure to cross the Atlantic on a visit to Douglas at Long Beach, re a possible co-production deal...was stored then stretched slightly and completed as a Mercure 100 for delivery to Air Inter (its eleventh Mercure)

[Flap40]

I had a good look today as we got airborne from Bordeaux and there are actually two Mercures there.
Both are on visible on Google Earth to the north of the runway intersection. The first is shown facing south in a group of four aircraft (inc a Caravelle) and the second is a little further to the NNW and looks as though it might actually be outside the airport boundary.
The first one is in the Air Inter blue striped colours and the second is on the later white fuselage scheme. The first has either suffered from a starboard main gear collapse or it has been parked on soft ground as it is leaning to one side.

As an aside, the engineer who met or aircraft last night was wearing Air Inter waterproofs. They were obviously good quality to last this long.

[ColinB]

I did fly some years ago from Paris to Bordeaux in a Mercure and it was not a comforting experience. I do recall it was windy at the airport but I had a distinct impression the wings were flexing up and down like an overweight gull on take off and landing. A few weeks later I was scheduled to make the same journey but because of an ATC strike I was switched to an overnight rail sleeper much to my relief.
Was my experience in the Mercure unusual or was it just a windy day?

[SpringHeeledJack]

As an aside, the engineer who met or aircraft last night was wearing Air Inter waterproofs. They were obviously good quality to last this long.

Probably good quality and the fact that waterproofs aren't needed too often in Toulouse, the number of 'cycles' are bound to be low

Was my experience in the Mercure unusual or was it just a windy day?

I had a couple of flights on the Mercure, i can't remember any unusual characteristics or events, though the flights were in summer and the evening. The flights were (i think) between Paris Orly and Avignon and Nice. I flew relatively often with Air Inter and they seemed to use the A320's A300's on the longer routes and the Mercures on the thinner routes, it just felt like a smaller A320. They might have also flown to at least one international destination if memory serves. The aircraft at Speyer is really as it was in the day and well worth a view, as is ALL of the museum there for anyone who hasn't had the pleasure



SHJ

[Proplinerman]

When did Air Inter cease to exist and what were the circumstances of their disappearance please?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Without looking it up, it was towards the late 90's and they were part of the Groupe Air France and it was deemed to be more economical to merge their routes and workers into that of AF. As they had been the internal airline, they had a virtual monopoly within France and, no doubt, very generous T&C's which needed to be controlled ? Or perhaps it was just political, i'm sure that someone on here knows.


SHJ

[Dr Jekyll]

Mind you, HS didn't do themselves any favours by their very generously allowing representatives from Boeing to have a full tour of the factory etc in the early 1960s-enter the 727, the most successful jetliner of all time, until sales of the 737 surpassed its (huge) total.

This months Arliner Classics magazine has an artists impression of the proposed twin engine derivative of the Trident. The resemblance to the 757 is striking.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

I had a good look today as we got airborne from Bordeaux and there are actually two Mercures there.
Both are on visible on Google Earth to the north of the runway intersection. The first is shown facing south in a group of four aircraft (inc a Caravelle) and the second is a little further to the NNW and looks as though it might actually be outside the airport boundary.
The first one is in the Air Inter blue striped colours and the second is on the later white fuselage scheme. The first has either suffered from a starboard main gear collapse or it has been parked on soft ground as it is leaning to one side.

The one that you think 'might be outside the airport boundary' is with a training school called the IMA - see Ingénierie et Maintenance Aéronautique - IMA — UFR de Physique . There are a few pictures of some of their aircraft, but none of the Mercure.
It is indeed 'just outside the boundary' ... just a few feet across a narrow road that runs around the fence. The Mercure is outside their hangar as it is too large to fit inside.

[Proplinerman]

Thanks for the response to my question SpringHeeledJack.

[FlamantRose]

Mercure aircraft F-BTTE in Montpellier

This acft never flew with these colours. It is used as an instructional airframe at the ESMA (Ecole Supérieure des Métiers de l'Aéronautique) facilities.