Airspeed/D.H. Ambassador.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 435
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From: Toulouse area, France
Correcting my own correction
@ Tankertrashnav ...Belated apologies for inaccurately correcting your Airspeed Envoy entry: without Wikipedalling, I realise that the Ensign airframe was by Armstrong WHITWORTH, while its "power" (all 1800 bhp from FOUR engines in the first one - talk about lead sled !!!) was by the Siddeley side.
After doing the Wiki thing, I saw that, like the Whitley, the Ensign also flew "nose down".
(I'll leave it there, because I'm sure the Mods will "have" me for Thread Drift, but apologies nevertheless)
Good wishes to all,
Jig Peter
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: Spare Room
The 1968 accident involved G-AMAD - unfortunately I witnessed the event from the Queen's Building.
As a lad growing up in Luton though, my fond memories are of Autair's Ambassadors trundling off to Glasgow, Blackpool, Hull, Teesside, etc.
As a lad growing up in Luton though, my fond memories are of Autair's Ambassadors trundling off to Glasgow, Blackpool, Hull, Teesside, etc.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 88
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From: Deepest Berks
Tap Changing
My father was an Electrical Engineer that for a brief time was involved in controlling the electrical in/output in various aircraft, the Ambassador being one of them. I can always remember him remarking that everytime during takeoff roll and climb out it concerned him about the amount of "Tap Changing" going on in the electrical system. I have no idea what he ment and at that time really had no interest in Electrical Engineering except in the 6 and 12 volts in the old Bangers that I owned at the time.
Alan
Alan
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 8,201
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From: London UK
Tap Changing was an old expression for resistance control (of variable voltage), a semi-mechanical device in those days. They came in various sizes, little ones for small scale, up to huge ones in electric railway locomotives from the driver's main power control. Nowadays such control is all-electronic with thyristors etc.
If you had an old car then variable speed wipers were an example of such a control, as you moved the switch round through the various positions it was "tapping" different positions on a resistor, to apply different voltages to the wiper motor.
If you had an old car then variable speed wipers were an example of such a control, as you moved the switch round through the various positions it was "tapping" different positions on a resistor, to apply different voltages to the wiper motor.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 991
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From: Stockport MAN/EGCC
When the old girl was later fitted out for freighting duties, what was her maximum payload and range at MTOW please.
Thanks in anticipation,
Be lucky
David
P.S. (At risk of thread creep police ) What were the same figures for the freighter Viking Autair operated for a time ?
Thanks in anticipation,
Be lucky
David
P.S. (At risk of thread creep police ) What were the same figures for the freighter Viking Autair operated for a time ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,413
Likes: 139
From: NORFOLK UK
As I Remember
As I remember Autair Ambassadors flew pax almost exclusively apart from the Saturday night Dublin paper run. The two Vikings G-AHPB G-AGRW spent their final flying years as freighters based at Templehof from where they flew week days to Schipol to pick up flowers for the Berlin markets.
I can't remember payloads.
For several years at Christmas-time a 55 seat Ambassador was chartered for 2-3 weeks to cruise at a leisurely pace around the Eastern Med, Near East and North Africa.
I recall taking my Basset Hound with me to an empty ops room at a deserted Luton Airport one Christmas Day to check the teleprinter for messages from this stately progress. Satisfied that neither a/c, crew member or pax had expired under the Egyptian sun I took my dog for a walk across the icy apron where a line of silent Britannias stood in the snow before their hangar waiting for Spring.
How times have changed.
I can't remember payloads.
For several years at Christmas-time a 55 seat Ambassador was chartered for 2-3 weeks to cruise at a leisurely pace around the Eastern Med, Near East and North Africa.
I recall taking my Basset Hound with me to an empty ops room at a deserted Luton Airport one Christmas Day to check the teleprinter for messages from this stately progress. Satisfied that neither a/c, crew member or pax had expired under the Egyptian sun I took my dog for a walk across the icy apron where a line of silent Britannias stood in the snow before their hangar waiting for Spring.
How times have changed.
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1
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From: London
History Channel Series Airspeed Elizabethan
Good afternoon,
Im writing from a television production company based in London called Liberty Bell. We are currently in production for a six part series for History Channel UK which examines the background to major national disasters over the past century.
This series will sensitively unravel the long chain of events to understand the wider context of why these events happen, and will pay tribute to lives tragically lost or altered through personal stories and recollections. This series also examines the effect these events have had on subsequent safety regulation, legislation and protocol.
One of our episodes will explore the Munich Air Disaster of 1958.
I was wondering if you know of any retired pilots who might have flown the BEA Elizabethan? We are looking to speak to former Pilots who can tell us what it felt like to fly the Elizabethan Airspeed AS.57 Ambassador.
If you can think of anyone who might be able to speak with me, without any obligation at this stage to participate, I would really appreciate your help in gaining insight into the event.
Kind regards,
Nia
Im writing from a television production company based in London called Liberty Bell. We are currently in production for a six part series for History Channel UK which examines the background to major national disasters over the past century.
This series will sensitively unravel the long chain of events to understand the wider context of why these events happen, and will pay tribute to lives tragically lost or altered through personal stories and recollections. This series also examines the effect these events have had on subsequent safety regulation, legislation and protocol.
One of our episodes will explore the Munich Air Disaster of 1958.
I was wondering if you know of any retired pilots who might have flown the BEA Elizabethan? We are looking to speak to former Pilots who can tell us what it felt like to fly the Elizabethan Airspeed AS.57 Ambassador.
If you can think of anyone who might be able to speak with me, without any obligation at this stage to participate, I would really appreciate your help in gaining insight into the event.
Kind regards,
Nia
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 120
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From: uk
Positioned many times on the Dan Air service from Cardiff to Liverpool More often than not it was the old faithful G-AMPP the DAK On a few flights was the Nord 262,but one evening an Ambassador turned up ,on boarding there was only a very few seats installed,no cabin lnterior as such ,it looked as though it had just or was about to perform a freight flight.Needless to say the flight to Liverpool was one to be remembered
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 8,201
Likes: 347
From: London UK
Given that the Ambassador was withdrawn from BEA service by summer 1958 (as commented in my post above), and that most BEA crew in those days were ex-RAF WW2 aircrew (including Jim Thain, the Munich captain), I am afraid that the time for discussing the aircraft's handling characteristics personally may have passed.
There have been a number of TV programmes made about the Munich accident over time; the BBC one about 10 years ago was, like most others, received with faint ridicule by those knowledgeable about the situation for its gross factual blunders (I believe also on the footballing front as the more commonplace ones on the aviation side). I hope you are able to avoid this.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 3
From: UK
Some photos of beautiful Ambassadors at Luton and Gatwick
G-ALZZ, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Autair, Luton, 1966 Jul 05.jpg
G-ALZV, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Autair, Luton, 1968 Mar 21.jpg
G-ALZP, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Decca Navigator, LGW, 1969 Nov 01.jpg
G-AMAE, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Dan Air, LGW, 1968.jpg
Top photo is G-ALZZ at Luton taken in July 1966
2nd photo is G-ALZV at Luton taken in March 1968
3rd Photo is G-ALZP of Decca Navigator at Gatwick in Nov 1969
4th Photo is G-AMAE of Dan Air at Gatwick in 1968
G-ALZZ, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Autair, Luton, 1966 Jul 05.jpg
G-ALZV, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Autair, Luton, 1968 Mar 21.jpg
G-ALZP, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Decca Navigator, LGW, 1969 Nov 01.jpg
G-AMAE, Airspeed AS57 Ambassador 2, Dan Air, LGW, 1968.jpg
Top photo is G-ALZZ at Luton taken in July 1966
2nd photo is G-ALZV at Luton taken in March 1968
3rd Photo is G-ALZP of Decca Navigator at Gatwick in Nov 1969
4th Photo is G-AMAE of Dan Air at Gatwick in 1968
Last edited by surely not; 2nd July 2017 at 21:35. Reason: additional info added re the photos
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,466
Likes: 188
From: 11 GROUP
Smoke and even more smoke
As a treat after a days Air Cadeting with the gliders at Kenley it was considered good sport to hot foot down to Gatwick just to watch an Ambassador starting up. In those days one could park under the 'fingers' and find a door open that took you up to a window opposite the parking bays. There was usually a Dan Air machine ready to fire up and the resultant smoke display well worth the trip. There was also the added bonus of the sound of the 'Cents' warming up. Was there ever a scheme to put t/props in them rather than go 748/Herald !!
Gnome de PPRuNe
Joined: Jan 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 15,184
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From: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Not sure which Dave's pic illustrates, but the Ambassador was used as a flying test bed for various Tyne, Proteus and Napier Eland engines.
A production turboprop update had been envisaged with various twin and four engined version mooted.
A production turboprop update had been envisaged with various twin and four engined version mooted.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Reading, UK
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 223
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From: UK
Nia
I know well a spritely young septuagenarian (just) who was an F/O on the Ambassador from 1966 to their removal to the knackers yard in 1969. PM me and I will see if I can connect you, he doesn't do PPRuNe.
