BOAC Stratocruiser "Canopus"

[allyn]

Grace Air C-97 videos

There are three nice videos of a C-97 on Youtube:

Startup taxi and takeoff



Startup and taxi at dusk




Inside and from the cockpit



I'm surprised at how much smoke the engines are spewing out.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Proplinerman

I have read that one Stratocruiser survived at Tucson till the early 1980s. Someone realised its significance, so it was slated for preservation, but then the airport decided it was time they cleaned out the wrecks area and altho the scrapmen were told not to smash up the Strat, the bloody fools did and thus perished the last Stratocruiser-what a tragedy.

This will be Strat N74603, an ex-Northwest aircraft traded in to Lockheed for Electras in 1959. It was never used again, it sat in Mojave for 15 years and was then flown (brave crew !) to Tucson, where it was slowly robbed for spares for C-97s (many parts were common) and for the Guppys modified as Airbus transporters. By 1984 it was missing the whole rear fuselage and tail, so wasn't really a preservation candidate, although the engines and props were still in place, along with a somewhat faded Northwest livery.

I recall there was still a commercial C-97 operator out of the north side of Miami International in the mid-1990s, although they didn't seem to put many hours in, the fleet always seemed to be on the ground there whenever I passed by.

[2 sheds]

Rogerk

Several good quality items including "your" Strat on the Pathe News website.

2 s

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by WHBM

I recall there was still a commercial C-97 operator out of the north side of Miami International in the mid-1990s, although they didn't seem to put many hours in, the fleet always seemed to be on the ground there whenever I passed by. I recall there was still a commercial C-97 operator out of the north side of Miami International in the mid-1990s, although they didn't seem to put many hours in, the fleet always seemed to be on the ground there whenever I passed by.

Agro Air, Dominican-registered. Not sure of your timescale, but they were quite active until one C-97 ploughed in at MEX killing scores on the ground. The remaining 2 sat at MIA until the Big Cleanup there.

There was also Aero Pacifico (Mexico) with a single C-97 which ended its days in pieces at TUS, like so many other things, and a fish-hauler up in Alaska, but I don't know what happened to that. The last active C-97 was (is ?) a water bomber at Fairbanks.

Oldprops Boeing 377/C97

[Fokkerwokker]

Canopus

Only just spotted your message. My model is due in UK end-June. I'll pm you as and when I have it in my hands and let you know what kind of a job they have done.

I am so glad this thread rumbles into life now and again - pun intended. Those wonderful Youtube shots (albeit with an annoying APU running!) were a joy to watch.

Thank you to Allyn for posting those!

FW

[allyn]

"Fish Hauler"

Grace Air Ltd operated a C97 as a salmon hauler from 1988 to (I think!) 1996. This is the plane that is in the videos that I linked.

The plane was eventually bought by the Berlin Airlift Historical Association. Details here:

C-97G 52-2718 "Angel of Deliverance"

[larssnowpharter]

Wonderful memories on this thread. Thank you.

My memory of the Stratocruiser is that of my first toy. Probably around 1954. We were inseparable. I still recall the excitement when I first saw one the same year in Singapore.

As I recall, there was a great PanAm film of the post war clippers featuring the Stratocruiser.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

..... they were quite active until one C-97 ploughed in at MEX killing scores on the ground.

I recall that. The Boeing spokesman said "we didn't know these old aircraft were still in use", and the media faithfully trotted this out. Quite how Boeing didn't know about it's own products operating out of a mainstream US airport I never quite understood. I presume that's the modern PR department for you.

[virgo]

In the late eighties, on a flight from Gatwick to Miami, a passenger asked to visit the flight-deck. He showed a lot of interest in the operation and introduced himself as the owner of Agro - the operator of the three C-97s based at Miami.

He talked about his airline and explained that he had problems obtaining crews with any heavy piston-engine experience - particularly flight-engineers, upon whom the care and well-being of the engines depended.
I told him that I'd got several thousand hours on piston engined aircraft and asked his terms and conditions...............as one would !

He responded ,that as an experienced flight-engineer I'd get the same as a captain..............$50 an hour. I said those were far better expenses and allowances than I was getting, but what about the salary ?
"That IS the salary !" and then adding, "The aircraft operate mainly to and from Florida and Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela where there's plenty of opportunities for crews to do a bit of "importing/ exporting for themselves !" Nudge-Nudge-Wink-Wink.

Much as I might have enjoyed the operation of a C-97 around South America I declined the offer and remained a comparatively boring UK based 747 flight-engineer !
(A month or two later, one of them crashed in Mexico city. Apparently some life-stock broke loose on the approach and completely upset the CofG.)

[WHBM]

The C97 accident at Mexico City (1987)

ASN Aircraft accident Boeing C-97 Stratofreighter G HI-481 Mexico City

[tonytech2]

Curtiss Electric Props on B377

Back in 1954/55 Lockheed Air Service at New York modified ex-Uunited Air Lines B377 for service with BOAC. Among the mods, we removed the Curtiss Electric props and installed Ham Standards.This involved removing nose sections of R4360's to allow installation of oil passages for props and governors and massive rewiring. Also installation of standard flight engineer's station with side seated F/E as UAL had a DC-6 type arrangement with F/E facing forward behind pedestal and no panel of his own. Again, massive rewiring required.
Question is, did anyone else have Curtiss props on their B377's. Considering all the problems with the hollow steel Ham Standards, wonder if they wouldn't have done better with the Curtiss. Believe the C-124 with R4360 had Curtiss props and I don't remember hearing of as many problems.

[WHBM]

As I understand it the American Overseas B377s that were passed on to Pan Am also had their original Curtiss electric propeller pitch controls replaced by Hamilton Standard hydraulics.

It seems, reading accounts, that the Curtiss was troublesome in its basic electric operation and gave all sorts of control problems and malfunctions, but was lighter, whereas the Hamilton Standard, using conventional hydraulic technology with all the associated heavy pipework but with the hollow blades to try and minimise the weight, was prone to incidious metal fatigue of the blades (suspected to start with FOD damage), which led to in-flight failure. Eventually HS did a new solid blade. Certainly if you look at how things developed hydraulic controls became universal, as did solid blades.

Some years earlier the Curtiss C46 initially had (of course) Curtiss electric props, which were such a nuisance on "The Hump", and other WW2 early deployments that aircraft with hydraulics were sent out from the USA as replacements. You wouldn't have done this unless there was a serious issue. It was a major part of the C46 getting the nickname "Curtiss Calamity". Quite why it was felt by some (not all) Stratocruiser purchasers that the old problems were solved, only to find in service they had not been, I am not sure.

[tonytech2]

Curtiss Props

I was well aware of Curtiss prop problems including those on Martin B26 (have a friend who was crew chief on them in 1941 no less) and the C46. However a lot of non-US outfits used Curtiss props on their L749 and L1049 Connies with little trouble. Seaboard and Western also used them on their L1049D and H Connies as did Trans Canada on their Gs. Admittedly, Seaboard did lose one at KJFK due to internal failure of the prop pitch change drive.

We converted one Air Force VC-118 (DC-6) from Ham Standards to Curtiss props for missions to Russia, Why this was done I do not know but allegedly because of cold. Since Russians used hydraulic props I don't think it was the real reason. Air Force certainly used them on many A/C including the VC-121A (the L-749 versions) SAMFLEET aircraft although the Presidential VC-121E Columbine had Ham Standards.
Re American Overseas B377. I had an uncle who was a PSM and I actually got on board one at LaGuardia where it had ferried over from Idlewild for maintenance. It was nosed into American's hangar. I didn't know one prop from another at the time but was hugely impressed by the sheer size compared to the Convairs and DC-6.

[Brianf127]

Canopus

My school (Townfield in Hayes) did a visit to London Airport and we went through "Canopus" before the Queen went on her trip.

[JFR6]

Short Empire Flying Boats

My father was the Imperial Airways Resident Inspector at Short Bros. of Rochester during the period this aircraft was constructed and first flown I am completing a research project into his career at present.

[beamender99]

My school (Townfield in Hayes) did a visit to London Airport and we went through "Canopus" before the Queen went on her trip.

Perhaps it was a regular sort of trip.
I too went on a school trip and seem to recall being amazed at the down stairs lounge area.
IIRC there was a panel down there to give access to manually lower the undercarriage.
We also visited a TWA Connie - Star of ....

[Old-Duffer]

Wonderful Thread, thank you.

Can anybody tell me about Captain O P Jones, the bearded aircraft commander often in charge when HM was on board?

Old Duffer

[Jhieminga]

I found this bit on a Stratocruiser page, near the bottom of the page:

That great first gentleman of the air, Capt O.P. Jones (we were on the same Strat course) later landed one short at Goose Bay, fortunately without hurting anyone. Next day he went out to examine where his wheels' marks were. He resigned and never flew for BOAC again. He had done enough for his airline and country.

I have a feeling that he also flew VC10s though, so this may not be correct.

[brakedwell]

Sadly, not a Stratocruiser, but I took this photo of a KC97 starting up at Lajes Field, Azores, in December 1957

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Here are a few Strats at London Airport l-o-n-g ago:



And for the military inclined.... at Prestwick: