Belvedere HC1
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There's also Bristol Belvedere HC Mk.1, XG452, C/n. 13347 at the Helicopter Museum at Weston Super Mare, but it is listed as currently under going major restoration so I'm not sure if it's on view at the moment.
The Helicopter Museum, the World's Largest Dedicated Helicopter Museum.
The Helicopter Museum, the World's Largest Dedicated Helicopter Museum.
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Thanks Far East Driver, he said it was a frightful contraption that burst into flames at the drop of a hat.
Sadly Arthur is no longer with us I have been informed of late, but he was a Gent of the first order. I still refer to the first two Chinooks we recieved on the OCU as Flirty Gerty and Firey Fred, the nicknames he bestoed on FG and FF
Sadly Arthur is no longer with us I have been informed of late, but he was a Gent of the first order. I still refer to the first two Chinooks we recieved on the OCU as Flirty Gerty and Firey Fred, the nicknames he bestoed on FG and FF
I seem to recall that the prototype Belvedere took a very long time (Over a year I think) to actual engage the rotors following engine start, ground resonance being the main problem and another reason for the strange oleo length/configuration.
Surely if the Belvedere was intended for the RN then their Lordships would have stipulated how big it could be and that it should have folding rotor blades etc, rather than wait until it had been built/flown?
Surely if the Belvedere was intended for the RN then their Lordships would have stipulated how big it could be and that it should have folding rotor blades etc, rather than wait until it had been built/flown?
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"Surely if the Belvedere was intended for the RN then their Lordships would have stipulated how big it could be and that it should have folding rotor blades etc, rather than wait until it had been built/flown?"
You might think that Matt, I couldn't possibly comment...
You might think that Matt, I couldn't possibly comment...
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Wasalodie:
I haven't seen that Belvedere flypast movie clip for a very long time. But my memory suggests it was in late '66, not late '67. If you could look very, very closely, you could see me riding in the cabin of one of them and sticking my head out of the rear escape hatch taking photographs.
Belvedere experts would have noticed that at least one of the helicopters was fitted with rotating beacon anti-collision lights, this was probably the last significant modification embodied on the aircraft.
I was trying to think who might have shot the movie, most of the camera angles seem to be from Seletar East Camp, where 66 Sqdn was located, but with one or two from West Camp. I remember three people on 66 Sqdn who were movie buffs, one was a Flt. Lt. pilot who was probably flying that day, the other two were both Corporals, one an airframe fitter and the other an instrument man (I think).
Also, the tail of a Beverley visible behind the Seletar control tower reminds me that these aircraft used to make occasional trips to Vietnam, but I could never determine the purpose, remember this was '66/'67 and there was a war going on.
Fareastdriver:
The 'windsocks' on the main rotor blades were to prevent over-speed of the rotors during engine high power runs on the ground. They were referred to as 'blade bags' (about 6" diameter and 18" long and closed at the rear end) that were attached to the blade trailing edge about half-way along the length.
I'm amazed at the amont of interest this helicopter has generated here. So for those of you who like trivia, here is a question: How do you change the rear engine of a Belvedere? Hint: You lost sleep about having to do it in the jungle.
I haven't seen that Belvedere flypast movie clip for a very long time. But my memory suggests it was in late '66, not late '67. If you could look very, very closely, you could see me riding in the cabin of one of them and sticking my head out of the rear escape hatch taking photographs.
Belvedere experts would have noticed that at least one of the helicopters was fitted with rotating beacon anti-collision lights, this was probably the last significant modification embodied on the aircraft.
I was trying to think who might have shot the movie, most of the camera angles seem to be from Seletar East Camp, where 66 Sqdn was located, but with one or two from West Camp. I remember three people on 66 Sqdn who were movie buffs, one was a Flt. Lt. pilot who was probably flying that day, the other two were both Corporals, one an airframe fitter and the other an instrument man (I think).
Also, the tail of a Beverley visible behind the Seletar control tower reminds me that these aircraft used to make occasional trips to Vietnam, but I could never determine the purpose, remember this was '66/'67 and there was a war going on.
Fareastdriver:
The 'windsocks' on the main rotor blades were to prevent over-speed of the rotors during engine high power runs on the ground. They were referred to as 'blade bags' (about 6" diameter and 18" long and closed at the rear end) that were attached to the blade trailing edge about half-way along the length.
I'm amazed at the amont of interest this helicopter has generated here. So for those of you who like trivia, here is a question: How do you change the rear engine of a Belvedere? Hint: You lost sleep about having to do it in the jungle.
S-J, go to stores and p/u a big shovel ....
I am sure that the flypast was in 1969 when they disbanded. You can see a Whirlwind getting airborne with them. That was the 'whipper-in' that accompanied them all around Singapore.
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Quote by Saint Jack
Care to cast further light into the shadows? Please.
Be lucky
David
Also, the tail of a Beverley visible behind the Seletar control tower reminds me that these aircraft used to make occasional trips to Vietnam, but I could never determine the purpose, remember this was '66/'67 and there was a war going on.
Be lucky
David
IIRC the Air Attache had a Devon or a Pembroke at Saigon. In the late sixties some of our fitters used to go there to service it. There was no law against flying to Saigon. The embassy had to be fed and watered so a Beverley could deliver it to them.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 7th Aug 2009 at 19:57.
In April (or May) 1966, as a spotty teenage SAC AMechA I was detached from 390MU (Seletar) to the 66 Sqn Detachment at Kuching in order to help them with structural modifications and Cat2 Assist repairs.
One thing that sticks in my mind was that during the introductory tour around the Sqn of being ushered up into the front of one and being shown where, earlier that day the cartridge housing had detached from it's mounting (when all three cartidges had fired simultaneously) and hit the Avpin tank. Somewhat understandably, the occupant of the RHS had needed to retire to the basha for a change of underwear...
But all too often all three cartridges would go off together producing a helluva bang and usually an avpin fire (avpin is a monofuel so spcial fire fighting equipment and trained personnel were a pre-requisite to Belvedere operations).
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One of the stories told to me by a good friend, who was on Belvederes in Aden, concerned the tendency of the liquid starter, (located under the pilot's seat) to explode................... An MOD modification was proposed which would have placed a great sheet of half-inch armour plating between the starter and the pilot's posteria, however, this would have further reduced the already inadequate payload and was vetoed by the squadron CO and Engineering Officer. Their answer was to introduce a much simpler mod. and amend the start procedures;
All of the start controls were on the captain's right-hand side. (Remember helicopter captains sit in the RH seat).The pilot would complete all the pre-start checks and then vacate his seat to stand in the gangway between the seats..............He would then pick up the locally manufactured "Starting Tool" which consisted of a long stick with a large nail sticking through it............using the tool, he would press the starter button from a safe distance and if the start was successful he would stow the tool and return to his seat to accomplish the rest of the flight.
Total cost, about a quid, weight penalty, about 8 ounces, improvement to pilot's morale 100 %.
Absolutely true, I am assured ??????
All of the start controls were on the captain's right-hand side. (Remember helicopter captains sit in the RH seat).The pilot would complete all the pre-start checks and then vacate his seat to stand in the gangway between the seats..............He would then pick up the locally manufactured "Starting Tool" which consisted of a long stick with a large nail sticking through it............using the tool, he would press the starter button from a safe distance and if the start was successful he would stow the tool and return to his seat to accomplish the rest of the flight.
Total cost, about a quid, weight penalty, about 8 ounces, improvement to pilot's morale 100 %.
Absolutely true, I am assured ??????
Virgo wrote:-
My memory from my detachment to Kuching is that the verically-mounted engine had the cartridge starter mounted on the right-hand-side and the Avpin tank was situated on the starboard fuselage side, nicely positioned in line with said cartridge housing... There was only a curtain separating the seat occupant from the whizz-bang componentry 
concerned the tendency of the liquid starter, (located under the pilot's seat) to explode.
Just to get the year right - the 66 Squadron disbandment flypast was definitely 1967. I was station fire officer at Seletar at the time and watched it from the tower. I have a black and white photo somewhere I took at the time.
We used to dread Avpin fires on start up. We had one at Seletar which resulted in minor damage to the aircraft, and one minor injury - "pilot broke ankle jumping out of aircraft when fire started". (See post #5 by Evalu8tor). The height of the front fuselage off the ground was certainly a factor! Shortly before I took over as fire officer (thankfully) one burned to a black smudge on the tarmac on AOC's inspection day. No marks to the fire section that day!
We used to dread Avpin fires on start up. We had one at Seletar which resulted in minor damage to the aircraft, and one minor injury - "pilot broke ankle jumping out of aircraft when fire started". (See post #5 by Evalu8tor). The height of the front fuselage off the ground was certainly a factor! Shortly before I took over as fire officer (thankfully) one burned to a black smudge on the tarmac on AOC's inspection day. No marks to the fire section that day!
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 8th Aug 2009 at 07:55.
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MoS funded Bristol in April,1947(!; prototype build ITP, 1950) for a 10-seater, T.173, cut-and-shut from 2xT.171 (Sycamore, Leonides) power trains. RN had explored rotors for ASW since Cierva Autogiro, then Sikorsky R-4 Hoverfly; with MSP-$ RN in 1951 was assigned Gannet AS.1 for real carriers, wooden Short Seamew for escort carriers, and 18 Bell HSL-1 on other sterns. That type failed, so in 1954 T.191(Napier Gazelle) was funded for RN, T.192 for RAF, T.193 for RCN and T.194 civil variant. RCN soon fled to Piaseki, RN and the tiny civil market to (W)S.58. T.192 continued for RAF's Task of brown job insertion. In 1957, despairing it would ever emerge, MoS explored Fairey Rotodyne and DHC-4 Caribou, but chose to persevere with T.192 to give Bristol/Weston something to parlay in the industrial "coalescence" discussions. Bristol Aircraft and GW went to EE/Vickers, 18/12/59: MoA had hoped rotors too, but that went by default to WHL, 23/3/60. The 3 DB T.192 arrived in October,1960; WHL made no fuss about confining production to merely 26 and secured commonality RAF/RN with (GE T.58, as BSEL) Twin Gnome Wessex HC.2/HU.5; Napier was absorbed by RR in 1961; Belvedere was orphaned. It should have been aborted in 1957.
(prime source: MRH.Uttley,Westland & the British Helicopter Industry,1945-60,Cass,2001.)
(prime source: MRH.Uttley,Westland & the British Helicopter Industry,1945-60,Cass,2001.)
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My earlier reference to the occasional Beverley flights from Seletar to Vietnam were not meant to suggest any clandestine role in that conflicy by the British military. The suggestion that they were simply resupplying the British diplomatic mission is entirely feasible and the use of the Beverley with its huge capacity may be nothing more than combining the freight requirement with flight-crew experience in a different environment.
That is not to say there were no connections by the British military and Vietnam. It's fairly common knowledge that the first US Army Rangers (later to become known as the Green Berets) were trained at the British Army's School of Jungle Warfare located near Kota Tinggi in Johor and only about 20 miles from Singapore.
Also, 66 Sqdn made at least one detachment to Terendak Camp (just a few miles north of Malacca and headquarters of the Commonwealth Brigade) to give 4RAR (the 4th Royal Australian Regiment) 'helicopter experience' before their deployment to Vietnam.
Now, how do you change the rear engine on a Belvedere? First find a suitable crane to raise the rear of the helicopter (by the rear rotor head). Next, Get the 2 special wheel stands that are about 3 feet high and place them under the rear wheels. Procede with engine change (the 'old' engine was lowered out and the 'new' engine hoisted in). There was adequate height under the front engine to do this on the ground. You'll now understand why we dreaded a rear engine change in the field.
Imagine doing this on a moving ship (impossible below deck due to the height required) and you'll get a better idea why the Royal Navy are probably still laughing about a Belvedere torpedo carrier.
That is not to say there were no connections by the British military and Vietnam. It's fairly common knowledge that the first US Army Rangers (later to become known as the Green Berets) were trained at the British Army's School of Jungle Warfare located near Kota Tinggi in Johor and only about 20 miles from Singapore.
Also, 66 Sqdn made at least one detachment to Terendak Camp (just a few miles north of Malacca and headquarters of the Commonwealth Brigade) to give 4RAR (the 4th Royal Australian Regiment) 'helicopter experience' before their deployment to Vietnam.
Now, how do you change the rear engine on a Belvedere? First find a suitable crane to raise the rear of the helicopter (by the rear rotor head). Next, Get the 2 special wheel stands that are about 3 feet high and place them under the rear wheels. Procede with engine change (the 'old' engine was lowered out and the 'new' engine hoisted in). There was adequate height under the front engine to do this on the ground. You'll now understand why we dreaded a rear engine change in the field.
Imagine doing this on a moving ship (impossible below deck due to the height required) and you'll get a better idea why the Royal Navy are probably still laughing about a Belvedere torpedo carrier.
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Please excuse a lowly ground crew breaking in,two things:
a)Quite right Mr. Salt it was.
b) There was also another mass fly past of belvederes
in the Far East.In 1964 after we had acheived the impossible, a nigh on 100 %
serviceability rate!For the Agong's birthday,as I remember it,Kuching flew all it's
Belvederes at once,
a)Quite right Mr. Salt it was.
b) There was also another mass fly past of belvederes
in the Far East.In 1964 after we had acheived the impossible, a nigh on 100 %
serviceability rate!For the Agong's birthday,as I remember it,Kuching flew all it's
Belvederes at once,
I certainly remember 34 Sqn Beverleys flying to Vietnam in 1967 - I shared a room in the mess with a Beverley captain so heard a lot of the goings on. On one occasion a Beverley was taxying for take-off from Saigon (forget the US base name) when something like a mag drop occurred. The tower immediately asked what was wrong and the captain, who happened to be the Sqn commander, informed them that he would be a few minutes while they sorted out a minor problem. His attention was immediately drawn to several bulldozers heading line abreast towards him and he was informed that if the aircraft was still in position when they reached him he would be pushed onto the grass to clear the taxiway. At that stage in the war movements were so intensive that even a couple of minutes delay was unacceptable.
The Beverely took off with the mag drop and got back to Seletar safe and sound!
The Beverely took off with the mag drop and got back to Seletar safe and sound!
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I remember seeing the first re-assembled Belvedere of 66 Sqn XG473 that visited Changi, I believe on it's first 'hop'.
I managed to get a few more Belvedere pics, like this one of XG475 being re-fuelled.
Those pics would be in 1962, but I'd need to do some 'digging around' to get more accurate dates.
My father was a W/O Signals and he moved later from Changi to Seletar. So instead of living in the quarters looking right down on the Western Dispersal at Changi I ended up in a bungalow in Serangoon. Therefore occasional trips were made to Seletar to photograph the aircraft there.
Here's a couple of the 66 Sqn Belvedere's being serviced, with a Whirlwind of 110 Sqn as well. This was late 1963.
The book I've been promising of my 60's Singapore aircraft pics is coming...just need the winter nights to get the 'writing' done!
David Taylor.
I managed to get a few more Belvedere pics, like this one of XG475 being re-fuelled.
Those pics would be in 1962, but I'd need to do some 'digging around' to get more accurate dates.
My father was a W/O Signals and he moved later from Changi to Seletar. So instead of living in the quarters looking right down on the Western Dispersal at Changi I ended up in a bungalow in Serangoon. Therefore occasional trips were made to Seletar to photograph the aircraft there.
Here's a couple of the 66 Sqn Belvedere's being serviced, with a Whirlwind of 110 Sqn as well. This was late 1963.
The book I've been promising of my 60's Singapore aircraft pics is coming...just need the winter nights to get the 'writing' done!
David Taylor.
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Beverley in Vietnam
David:
"Also, the tail of a Beverley visible behind the Seletar control tower reminds me that these aircraft used to make occasional trips to Vietnam, but I could never determine the purpose, remember this was '66/'67 and there was a war going on.
Care to cast further light into the shadows? Please.
Be lucky
David"
There was no hidden agenda about the Beverley trips to Vietnam during the war. I was a crew member of XL150 of 34 Squadron on the trip in question in August 1967. Our task, as in previous years, was to deliver OXFAM & Catholic Relief Agency supplies from Saigon (Tan Son Nhut) to various destinations incountry. Day 1 started rather badly with a seized donk at Loc Ninh, but after an amazing feat of logistics (for Beverleys, that is), involving a Beverley arriving from Chieng Mai with the engine change team, and another one arriving from Seletar with the new engine, we were able to regain schedule after an engine change in the field. Then, during the following few days, on to Da Nang, Kontum, Pleiku, Dalat and back to Seletar after an action packed week. The whole proceedings would take too long to tell here.
Sadly, XL150 was destroyed, with all on board killed, on 15th December 1967 after crashing into a hill in Malaysia in appalling weather conditions. That's another story.
LXXIV
"Also, the tail of a Beverley visible behind the Seletar control tower reminds me that these aircraft used to make occasional trips to Vietnam, but I could never determine the purpose, remember this was '66/'67 and there was a war going on.
Care to cast further light into the shadows? Please.
Be lucky
David"
There was no hidden agenda about the Beverley trips to Vietnam during the war. I was a crew member of XL150 of 34 Squadron on the trip in question in August 1967. Our task, as in previous years, was to deliver OXFAM & Catholic Relief Agency supplies from Saigon (Tan Son Nhut) to various destinations incountry. Day 1 started rather badly with a seized donk at Loc Ninh, but after an amazing feat of logistics (for Beverleys, that is), involving a Beverley arriving from Chieng Mai with the engine change team, and another one arriving from Seletar with the new engine, we were able to regain schedule after an engine change in the field. Then, during the following few days, on to Da Nang, Kontum, Pleiku, Dalat and back to Seletar after an action packed week. The whole proceedings would take too long to tell here.
Sadly, XL150 was destroyed, with all on board killed, on 15th December 1967 after crashing into a hill in Malaysia in appalling weather conditions. That's another story.
LXXIV