Viscount fuel starvation
Silly Old Git
Thread Starter
Viscount fuel starvation
Does anyone recall a Viscount circa 1980, running out of fuel and landing in a field somewhere in south UK?
The only casualty I believe was a cow?
The only casualty I believe was a cow?
Jack's Granddad
Alidair Viscount near Exeter.
ASN Aircraft accident Vickers 708 Viscount G-ARBY Ottery St. Mary
Gad, Duckbutt, beat me by 1 minute!
ASN Aircraft accident Vickers 708 Viscount G-ARBY Ottery St. Mary
Gad, Duckbutt, beat me by 1 minute!
If I remember correctly, the report is quite interesting in that the investigators 'hinted' that although the crew must bear primary responsibility for failing to ensure adequate fuel was carried on the flight, perhaps little or no fuel had actually been pumped aboard the aircraft from Santander on the final leg despite the F/O checking the bowser reading and signing for an adequate amount.
The investigators used data from the previous couple of flights which were also Exeter->Santander->Exeter and similarly loaded, extrapolated rate of climb data from a plot of time/altitude from the FDR and found that on departure of the accident flight the Viscount was probably considerably lighter to the tune of approximately the weight of fuel that should have been uploaded. Additionally, they calculated (hypothetically.....) that if no fuel had actually been uploaded, the time at which the flight would run out using the previous flights as models for climb/cruise altitude etc. That time came to with 3 minutes of the actual time the aircraft did run out...........
The investigators used data from the previous couple of flights which were also Exeter->Santander->Exeter and similarly loaded, extrapolated rate of climb data from a plot of time/altitude from the FDR and found that on departure of the accident flight the Viscount was probably considerably lighter to the tune of approximately the weight of fuel that should have been uploaded. Additionally, they calculated (hypothetically.....) that if no fuel had actually been uploaded, the time at which the flight would run out using the previous flights as models for climb/cruise altitude etc. That time came to with 3 minutes of the actual time the aircraft did run out...........
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Tail-take-off.
Not sure why you raised G-OHOT in relation to this thread as it was related to heavy icing and not fuel starvation.
After the G-ARBY accident I demonstrated to our chief pilot (not Alidair) the way you could connect the fuel truck to an aircraft and pump fuel round the bowser but not into the aircraft although it still registered on the meter. He was amazed and went away to contemplate the matter as to the fuelling procedures we should use.
I think more use of sticks ensued.
Not sure why you raised G-OHOT in relation to this thread as it was related to heavy icing and not fuel starvation.
After the G-ARBY accident I demonstrated to our chief pilot (not Alidair) the way you could connect the fuel truck to an aircraft and pump fuel round the bowser but not into the aircraft although it still registered on the meter. He was amazed and went away to contemplate the matter as to the fuelling procedures we should use.
I think more use of sticks ensued.
Silly Old Git
Thread Starter
Thank you all for your help
There was a story of a pilot-mate paxing on said Viscount.
Put his newspaper down to gaze out the port window in amazement as two Darts whooshed into auto feather. Seconds later he was treated to a repeat performance out the stbd side
Alidair, completely forgotten them
There was a story of a pilot-mate paxing on said Viscount.
Put his newspaper down to gaze out the port window in amazement as two Darts whooshed into auto feather. Seconds later he was treated to a repeat performance out the stbd side
Alidair, completely forgotten them
Bring back the Dak!
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Was right behind him on the same set of charter flights, saw him take off as we went downwind at Santander, was the next aircraft to refuel from that very same bowser, but as we were in the Intra "go faster" Viscount 815 G-AVJB, we ordered full tanks, and didn't stop refuelling until onboard cut-offs worked. Our uplift and OK guages confirmed our fuel load. Due to a real slick turnaround, we caught up with 'BY as we approached Berry Head, and as we took radar vectors for the westerly R/W at Exeter, we suddenly jumped from No 3 to No 2 in sequence on the radio, which seemed a little odd, but we concentrated on the job in hand, broke cloud as we came over the ridge on the ILS in poor light and drizzle, and landed. We taxied in, and I was just a little pleased with myself, having just flown my first "solo" as P1 on the Viscount, and can remember the smile dropping from my face as the handling agent came on the flightdeck and broke the news.
Exeter was a Customs training station, and there had been a mega exercise on all day. Guess who were the first to stumble through that field where 'BY had come to rest?
Yup, Customs........never mind the state of the passengers, they were there to check the bar-boxes were still sealed!! You couldn't make it up!!
Exeter was a Customs training station, and there had been a mega exercise on all day. Guess who were the first to stumble through that field where 'BY had come to rest?
Yup, Customs........never mind the state of the passengers, they were there to check the bar-boxes were still sealed!! You couldn't make it up!!
If I recall correctly, the Plymouth-Santander ferry had broken down in port. Alidair thus got a sudden job to run multiple shuttles with a couple of Viscounts to move several hundred ferry passengers from Santander to Exeter, and thence coach to Plymouth.
Silly Old Git
Thread Starter
Intra, another name I had forgotten
I think on the day I was hauling a load of cows on four Dart power, possibly to Holland
It was the topic of discussion that night with the regular BMA Viscount drivers at the local Kegworth watering hole
I think on the day I was hauling a load of cows on four Dart power, possibly to Holland
It was the topic of discussion that night with the regular BMA Viscount drivers at the local Kegworth watering hole
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My father (Peter Eyre) worked for British Midland and Alidair as Operations Controller, and remembers this incident:
"I was on duty for this crash and remember it very well.
People were phoning up asking if I had any lamb chops (as the Viscount had killed some sheep during its belly landing).
They had two captains onboard. Conversation after the crash was that as they were overhead Guernsey, they discussed diverting there. The crew thought that if they diverted, and if they were wrong about the low fuel state, it would be an acute embarrasment or worse!!
Many times in both British Midland and Alidair I found a dark cloud over Operations and the Crews if they did not attempt to get the aircraft back to its flight-planned destination. It was always a case of commercial pressure versus operational pressure.
The other issue is having two captain flying as crew - it could cause some confusion or command challenges during an emergency. Only one captain is P1, but in their minds both are P1. This was the case in another accident at Kirkwall in 1979 with another Viscount (G-BFYZ of Guernsey Airlines), when one captain decided it was okay to land and the other called for an overshoot."
Incidentally, this aircraft was the oldest flying Viscount in the world at the time. It was the 10th Viscount produced, the second Viscount delivered to Air France, and was 27 years old at the time of the crash.
Regards,
David Eyre
"I was on duty for this crash and remember it very well.
People were phoning up asking if I had any lamb chops (as the Viscount had killed some sheep during its belly landing).
They had two captains onboard. Conversation after the crash was that as they were overhead Guernsey, they discussed diverting there. The crew thought that if they diverted, and if they were wrong about the low fuel state, it would be an acute embarrasment or worse!!
Many times in both British Midland and Alidair I found a dark cloud over Operations and the Crews if they did not attempt to get the aircraft back to its flight-planned destination. It was always a case of commercial pressure versus operational pressure.
The other issue is having two captain flying as crew - it could cause some confusion or command challenges during an emergency. Only one captain is P1, but in their minds both are P1. This was the case in another accident at Kirkwall in 1979 with another Viscount (G-BFYZ of Guernsey Airlines), when one captain decided it was okay to land and the other called for an overshoot."
Incidentally, this aircraft was the oldest flying Viscount in the world at the time. It was the 10th Viscount produced, the second Viscount delivered to Air France, and was 27 years old at the time of the crash.
Regards,
David Eyre
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Some more articles which my father just sent me regarding this accident:
"The aircraft was 11 miles short of the runway, over a wooded area on East Hill, just before the town of Ottery St Mary, when it ran out of fuel and all four engines stopped.
Fortunately, the pilot knew the area and was able to bank left and glide over the town's southern edge and make a wheels-up crash-landing in a field.
The aircraft was put down at 19.53 hrs, in daylight, near St Saviours' Bridge, in a small grassy valley studded with trees. The aircraft, which was 27 years old, was written off in the crash. The only casualties were two sheep.
The Air Accident Investigation Branch later concluded that the accident had been primarily caused by the crew's erroneous belief that there was sufficient fuel on board to complete the flight.
The aircraft's unreliable fuel gauges, the company's pilots' method of establishing total fuel quantity and the imprecise company instructions regarding the use of dipsticks, however, were also considered to be major contributory factors. Meter indications on the refuelling vehicle at Santander, which could not have accurately reflected the quantity of fuel delivered, were also considered to have been a probable contributory factor.
The accident investigation report concluded, however, that the aircraft commander's handling of the emergency once the aircraft's four engines stopped had been skilful and assured. Had he not acted in the way he did there could have been a considerable loss of life both for aircraft passengers and for residents of the town.
One of the propellors from the aircraft was later donated by the airline to the town to be auctioned for charity.
Today the town of Ottery St Mary still lies under the flightpath for Exeter Airport. Aircraft regularly pass overhead, mostly Bombardier Dash-8 Q400 Turboprops operated by the UK airline FlyBe, or the occasional Embraer E-195. There are about 20 such landings a day."
and another article:
"Plane thanks
Colin Randall - January 21. 2009 3:51PM
Approaching the door of a cottage on Jersey, one of the islands in the English Channel, I was engulfed by 10 yelping, leaping Welsh springer spaniels.
Anyone who looks after so many of these beautiful creatures is likely to rise in my estimation.
But in the eyes of 61 other people, their friends and families and the wider public, the man on whom I was calling was already a hero.
Twenty-eight years before the “miracle of the Hudson” [US Airways Flight 1549 ditching], Geoffrey Whittaker had averted an air disaster. My thoughts turned to him as I read about the extraordinary events that unfolded in New York after a plane flew into a flock of birds.
As the pilot of a BAe Vickers Viscount 708, flying 58 passengers plus crew from Santander in northern Spain to the south-western English city of Exeter, Capt Whittaker was confronted by total engine failure eight miles short of his destination.
He instantly sent a Mayday distress call, alerted passengers to the emergency and began searching for the least unsuitable place for a crashlanding. It was just after 7.50pm on July 17 1980. Few on board can have been optimistic of still being alive at eight.
But Capt Whittaker brought the plane down with such skill that everyone escaped unhurt. There were two casualties, sheep grazing on the plane’s improvised runway, a field that later became a cricket pitch, in the village of Ottery St Mary. Both reportedly found their way into local deep freezers.
So why was I, a reporter, visiting the pilot at his island home? ...I wished to ask how Capt Whittaker was getting on in his campaign against dismissal from his job.
For the reason the plane had to make a forced landing was that it had run out of fuel. The official accident investigation attributed this to the crew’s “erroneous belief that there was on board sufficient to complete the flight”. The aircraft’s unreliable fuel gauges, inaccurate meter reading on the refuelling vehicle at Santander and a lack of precise instructions from the airline, Alidair, on the use of dipsticks were also described as major contributory factors. Capt Whittaker had been with the handling agents while his co-pilot supervised refuelling. But as commander of the aircraft, he was being held responsible for taking off without enough fuel to complete the flight.
Denied permission to fly, he was concentrating on his dogs, grooming them for competitive shows. What ultimately became of him and his dispute with Alidair, I do not know."
Regards,
David Eyre
"The aircraft was 11 miles short of the runway, over a wooded area on East Hill, just before the town of Ottery St Mary, when it ran out of fuel and all four engines stopped.
Fortunately, the pilot knew the area and was able to bank left and glide over the town's southern edge and make a wheels-up crash-landing in a field.
The aircraft was put down at 19.53 hrs, in daylight, near St Saviours' Bridge, in a small grassy valley studded with trees. The aircraft, which was 27 years old, was written off in the crash. The only casualties were two sheep.
The Air Accident Investigation Branch later concluded that the accident had been primarily caused by the crew's erroneous belief that there was sufficient fuel on board to complete the flight.
The aircraft's unreliable fuel gauges, the company's pilots' method of establishing total fuel quantity and the imprecise company instructions regarding the use of dipsticks, however, were also considered to be major contributory factors. Meter indications on the refuelling vehicle at Santander, which could not have accurately reflected the quantity of fuel delivered, were also considered to have been a probable contributory factor.
The accident investigation report concluded, however, that the aircraft commander's handling of the emergency once the aircraft's four engines stopped had been skilful and assured. Had he not acted in the way he did there could have been a considerable loss of life both for aircraft passengers and for residents of the town.
One of the propellors from the aircraft was later donated by the airline to the town to be auctioned for charity.
Today the town of Ottery St Mary still lies under the flightpath for Exeter Airport. Aircraft regularly pass overhead, mostly Bombardier Dash-8 Q400 Turboprops operated by the UK airline FlyBe, or the occasional Embraer E-195. There are about 20 such landings a day."
and another article:
"Plane thanks
Colin Randall - January 21. 2009 3:51PM
Approaching the door of a cottage on Jersey, one of the islands in the English Channel, I was engulfed by 10 yelping, leaping Welsh springer spaniels.
Anyone who looks after so many of these beautiful creatures is likely to rise in my estimation.
But in the eyes of 61 other people, their friends and families and the wider public, the man on whom I was calling was already a hero.
Twenty-eight years before the “miracle of the Hudson” [US Airways Flight 1549 ditching], Geoffrey Whittaker had averted an air disaster. My thoughts turned to him as I read about the extraordinary events that unfolded in New York after a plane flew into a flock of birds.
As the pilot of a BAe Vickers Viscount 708, flying 58 passengers plus crew from Santander in northern Spain to the south-western English city of Exeter, Capt Whittaker was confronted by total engine failure eight miles short of his destination.
He instantly sent a Mayday distress call, alerted passengers to the emergency and began searching for the least unsuitable place for a crashlanding. It was just after 7.50pm on July 17 1980. Few on board can have been optimistic of still being alive at eight.
But Capt Whittaker brought the plane down with such skill that everyone escaped unhurt. There were two casualties, sheep grazing on the plane’s improvised runway, a field that later became a cricket pitch, in the village of Ottery St Mary. Both reportedly found their way into local deep freezers.
So why was I, a reporter, visiting the pilot at his island home? ...I wished to ask how Capt Whittaker was getting on in his campaign against dismissal from his job.
For the reason the plane had to make a forced landing was that it had run out of fuel. The official accident investigation attributed this to the crew’s “erroneous belief that there was on board sufficient to complete the flight”. The aircraft’s unreliable fuel gauges, inaccurate meter reading on the refuelling vehicle at Santander and a lack of precise instructions from the airline, Alidair, on the use of dipsticks were also described as major contributory factors. Capt Whittaker had been with the handling agents while his co-pilot supervised refuelling. But as commander of the aircraft, he was being held responsible for taking off without enough fuel to complete the flight.
Denied permission to fly, he was concentrating on his dogs, grooming them for competitive shows. What ultimately became of him and his dispute with Alidair, I do not know."
Regards,
David Eyre
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Some good quality colour photos of the crashed aircraft are on here:
Vickers Viscount Photos Aircraft Pictures History and Information
Under the "Registration" drop down menu, click on G-ARBY.
This opens a photo of the aircraft in Air France colours. Above and right of the photo are arrows where you can scroll through each individual photo - go to the last two pages to see the post-accident photos of G-ARBY.
Regards,
David Eyre
Vickers Viscount Photos Aircraft Pictures History and Information
Under the "Registration" drop down menu, click on G-ARBY.
This opens a photo of the aircraft in Air France colours. Above and right of the photo are arrows where you can scroll through each individual photo - go to the last two pages to see the post-accident photos of G-ARBY.
Regards,
David Eyre
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Some more snippets on this accident, taken from another topic on PPRuNe:
"Captain Geoff Whittaker was ex Jersey Airlines/BUA(CI), and Aurigny."
[Geoff Whittaker] "had taken the a/c over from Jeep Holmes."
"Bill "Wild Bill" Hiccox was the First Officer on the Exeter Viscount crash. The only person I ever met with a Silver C on viscounts!!!"
"Seem to recall it was a Brittany Ferries charter to bring some passengers back to UK from Santander due to delays with a ferry into Plymouth. Overhead Jersey, the captain was told the fuel was marginal for Exeter but decided to push on.......and nearly made it."
"My claim to infamy is that I was at Kirkwall [Orkney Islands] stripping parts from G-BFYZ, when we heard the newsflash about G-ARBY. I ended up a few weeks later at Farnborough robbing parts from G-ARBY."
Taken from this topic:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ntice-bhx.html
"Captain Geoff Whittaker was ex Jersey Airlines/BUA(CI), and Aurigny."
[Geoff Whittaker] "had taken the a/c over from Jeep Holmes."
"Bill "Wild Bill" Hiccox was the First Officer on the Exeter Viscount crash. The only person I ever met with a Silver C on viscounts!!!"
"Seem to recall it was a Brittany Ferries charter to bring some passengers back to UK from Santander due to delays with a ferry into Plymouth. Overhead Jersey, the captain was told the fuel was marginal for Exeter but decided to push on.......and nearly made it."
"My claim to infamy is that I was at Kirkwall [Orkney Islands] stripping parts from G-BFYZ, when we heard the newsflash about G-ARBY. I ended up a few weeks later at Farnborough robbing parts from G-ARBY."
Taken from this topic:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ntice-bhx.html
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Hi David,
Thanks for the info.
Pilot = 'Sheep Holmes' flying 'Lamb Chops' into EMA Lol!!!!!
Going off the thread, There was the BMA Visc that had the mishap at LBA.
Not really read or heard much about this, Apart from the thread last year on pprune.
Your father I presume will know and remember this incident Jan 1972 I think??
Remember the night OHOT crashed at Uttoxeter, It was one of 2 flights going into COV a sunday night at about 21.40 if I remember??
Cheers.
BYAI.
Thanks for the info.
Pilot = 'Sheep Holmes' flying 'Lamb Chops' into EMA Lol!!!!!
Going off the thread, There was the BMA Visc that had the mishap at LBA.
Not really read or heard much about this, Apart from the thread last year on pprune.
Your father I presume will know and remember this incident Jan 1972 I think??
Remember the night OHOT crashed at Uttoxeter, It was one of 2 flights going into COV a sunday night at about 21.40 if I remember??
Cheers.
BYAI.