Gnat alternatives
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Hello Chaps,
I remember STUPRECC and CUBSTUN (though IIRC, the speed envelope was <400/.85M). Also that chubby-thighed QFIs in goon-suits had problems getting full aileron on. I also remember a certain Flt Cdr who carried a Nav Ruler in his calf pocket, with which he used to poke unwary studes in the back of the head. Do any of you Chaps recall that the current CDS was a Creamie Gnat QFI as a Fg Off back then?
I remember STUPRECC and CUBSTUN (though IIRC, the speed envelope was <400/.85M). Also that chubby-thighed QFIs in goon-suits had problems getting full aileron on. I also remember a certain Flt Cdr who carried a Nav Ruler in his calf pocket, with which he used to poke unwary studes in the back of the head. Do any of you Chaps recall that the current CDS was a Creamie Gnat QFI as a Fg Off back then?
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Why, or What Instead of Gnat T.1
FG Miles M.100 Student.
W.E.W.Petter left EE in February,1950 to be MD at Folland, which was then in GW, and subbing DH wings (Vampire, Dove, Chipmunk). He was able to fund Midge as expendable (he said, affordable) Stuka - US DoD later took the idea up for its poorer Allies as Northrop F-5, adapted 1959 as USAF Advanced trainer T-38. MoS funded Folland for 6 Gnat F.1, similarly for Allies, to be sold to Yugoslavia, Finland and India (Ajeet). In 1957 RAF's all-through Jet Provost notion, replacing Provost+Vampire T.11, had already become dubious, and tenders were invited for an affordable mount above JP, below OCU type (Hunter T.7, Javelin T.3, Lightning T.4). Miles, working from a shed, and Folland bid; Folland won, with an order for 14 Development Batch in 1958. MoS' policy was industry "coalescence". Folland sold out to HSAL, September,1959; Petter fled to a Swiss hermitage; in 1960 orders, in all to 105, did flow. T-38 would have involved scarce $. Hunters were being converted to FGA.9/FR.10, RN T.8/GA.11, and export.
Care to translate that dog's breakfast into human understandable information?
W.E.W.Petter left EE in February,1950 to be MD at Folland, which was then in GW, and subbing DH wings (Vampire, Dove, Chipmunk). He was able to fund Midge as expendable (he said, affordable) Stuka - US DoD later took the idea up for its poorer Allies as Northrop F-5, adapted 1959 as USAF Advanced trainer T-38. MoS funded Folland for 6 Gnat F.1, similarly for Allies, to be sold to Yugoslavia, Finland and India (Ajeet). In 1957 RAF's all-through Jet Provost notion, replacing Provost+Vampire T.11, had already become dubious, and tenders were invited for an affordable mount above JP, below OCU type (Hunter T.7, Javelin T.3, Lightning T.4). Miles, working from a shed, and Folland bid; Folland won, with an order for 14 Development Batch in 1958. MoS' policy was industry "coalescence". Folland sold out to HSAL, September,1959; Petter fled to a Swiss hermitage; in 1960 orders, in all to 105, did flow. T-38 would have involved scarce $. Hunters were being converted to FGA.9/FR.10, RN T.8/GA.11, and export.
Care to translate that dog's breakfast into human understandable information?
With the tailplane still powered hydraulically, I'm sure that with the elevators unlocked (click, click, white band, ELEV caption), there was a 300/M0.7 flutter limit? Whereas for a hyd fail, the tailplane was moved electrically and 400/M0.85 was the limit for unlock.
We'll be on to the joys of Cam K, Q-gearing, Datum Shift and Scissor Restrictors next.
Not to mention Fuse 13!
We'll be on to the joys of Cam K, Q-gearing, Datum Shift and Scissor Restrictors next.
Not to mention Fuse 13!
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We'll be on to the joys of Cam K
Mnemonic creep as aircraft were progressively modified might make an interesting thread on its own account; in the early days on the Javelin a traditional TAFFIOH sufficed pre-take-off, but towards the end of the Mark 9 it had expanded to something I can't recall (a forgettable Mnemonic!). It was something like TAFFIGWROSHHH, I wonder whether anyone can remember what it was?
"Do any of you Chaps recall that the current CDS was a Creamie Gnat QFI as a Fg Off back then?"
....and what does cream do after a while? It curdles, goes off and smells...
Under desk go! Anti-flak armed, incoming.....
LM (A2)
....and what does cream do after a while? It curdles, goes off and smells...
Under desk go! Anti-flak armed, incoming.....
LM (A2)
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Personally, I thought the Gnat was an excelent swept wing advanced trainer. The Hunter was just too nice - like a big jet Provost. The Gnat, on the other hand, had to be flown and landed with carefull regard to high drag and adverse yaw at high angles of attack. It was difficult to fly accurately straight and level, but when you got dug in with some G it settled down nicely.
And the instrument fit was super. Just what was needed to bring IF standards in the fast jet world up to some level of competence.
Dick
And the instrument fit was super. Just what was needed to bring IF standards in the fast jet world up to some level of competence.
Dick
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Let's not forget also the natty (sorry!) little brake chute on the Gnat - about the size of an average tablecloth, but still good training stuff for those destined for fats jets with 'em.
During the CFS Course I asked why Cam K was so named & was told that Cams A to J didn't work.
I thought that it was Output value = K x Input value , where K varies with control column deflexion angle as determined by the cam.
Whatever, it was a clever idea, but still a mite too sensitive at small deflexions for clumsy Bloggs such as me - until you got used to it. Although once when I flew a TACAN dive with 1 notch of flap by mistake, the whole aircraft felt much more pitch stable. Didn't the Reds use to fly it in that configuration?
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Did the "Fuse 13" comment have anything to do with the removal of it causing an unexplained increase in roll rate?
And because the real reason for the increase in roll rate was never found it was decided not to remove the fuse. But with the “cat out of the bag” illicit action was that fuses were then purposely blown, reinserted into their holders and quietly ignored?
Please correct if mistaken.
And because the real reason for the increase in roll rate was never found it was decided not to remove the fuse. But with the “cat out of the bag” illicit action was that fuses were then purposely blown, reinserted into their holders and quietly ignored?
Please correct if mistaken.
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Excellent read FL - reading again and studying it - truly wonderful.
BEagle thanks for the posts in 2002 especially posts #20 and #23.
Excellent insights,
Jeez - I'll convert from gas.
BEagle thanks for the posts in 2002 especially posts #20 and #23.
Excellent insights,
Jeez - I'll convert from gas.
Last edited by kluge; 3rd Jun 2009 at 14:06. Reason: ah,.now I'm starting to understand why it is said that the Gnat is a complex a/c
One Eared M Plt
I remembered this episode after seeing the earlier reference to Jacko .....
My mate (and adjacent service number) Iain A-R, sadly no longer with us, was rostered to fly his JP Final Nav Test with said M Plt, who was either on the other Squadron or in Standards.. "Show us your map, Lad", said J, and took Iain's absolutely immaculately prepared map, Hmmed, and gave Iain the dog-eared ditto from his flying suit pocket. "Fly it on that, Lad" he said. "Why?", said Iain. "Your Dad (then also a QFI at, I think, Feltwell) bollocked me for being late for Pay parade in 1948" said Jacko.
Iain flew the Nav Test very well (as he did most things) and they returned to the crew room. "Want to know how you did, Lad?" asked the One Eared M Plt - "Bloody well - 90%+) as I recall. And they went their separate ways.
My mate (and adjacent service number) Iain A-R, sadly no longer with us, was rostered to fly his JP Final Nav Test with said M Plt, who was either on the other Squadron or in Standards.. "Show us your map, Lad", said J, and took Iain's absolutely immaculately prepared map, Hmmed, and gave Iain the dog-eared ditto from his flying suit pocket. "Fly it on that, Lad" he said. "Why?", said Iain. "Your Dad (then also a QFI at, I think, Feltwell) bollocked me for being late for Pay parade in 1948" said Jacko.
Iain flew the Nav Test very well (as he did most things) and they returned to the crew room. "Want to know how you did, Lad?" asked the One Eared M Plt - "Bloody well - 90%+) as I recall. And they went their separate ways.
