Gnat alternatives
 

Since Folland developed the Gnat as a private venture, what might the RAF would have used as an advanced trainer had it not existed?

...hunter...swift :eek:.....lightning :D

Hunter T Mk 7






.

To fit the requirements for a Training aircraft the Swift ,bless it , was a tad dubious and the Ligtning a bit too much of a handful so the natural choice has to be the Hunter,and to I concur with Beagles choice of the T7 varient.

Was the T38 flying and available then?

I did wonder about the Hunter T7 because I read somewhere that it was used for students who couldn't fit into the Gnat. But that raises the question of why buy the Gnat at all considering that the RAF was operating plenty of Hunters already.

There was a period when some of the AFTS students at Valley went through on the Hunter with the others on the Gnat. I suspect there was an element of 'support' in the purchase of the Gnat, although it certainly was an excellent trainer and the instrumentation made it a 'natural' for those progressing to the current front-line fighter, the Lightning, whereas the Hunter was then still equipped only with the basic 'older' panel.

Why buy the Gnat?

Possibly to keep Folland in business or maybe they were cheap! I'm just glad they did. The view from the cockpit was much better than in the T7 and the instructor was in the back!! Always a bonus in those days!

It was a delight to fly with great avionics for its day!

A Tac dive to point Alpha made life easy but low level down the A5 pass was more fun!!!!

Those were the days!!!

Plus OR946 instrument fit, which helped a lot at the Lightning OCU.

As to why the RAF acquired it, if my memory serves me correctly, did not a certain officer of air rank become a director of Folland upon retirement?

Oh, and that tailplane in follow-up.....

STUPER - never to be forgotten!

Yep Newt - those were the days.

Almost on topic - talked to an ex-Tornado pilot who had no problem with flapless approaches on the Tornado conversion course, because he had done his fast jet course on exchange in the US on the T38 and the attitude was almost identical.

Expressed a preference for the T38 over the Hawk as a 'fun' aircraft, but then every pilot prefers his own type.

Mmmm, there was talk of replacing the Gnat with the Jaguar T2 at one point. Either Jaguars or T38's would have looked good in the Red Arrows.

Off topic; The two Gnats (N weald) at the Southend airshow this weekend did a great display and still cut a dash.

Jaguar was most definitely procured as the Advanced FJ Flying Training aircraft. Thankfully for many I suspect, it was realised the aircraft had a few foibles not really compatible with such a role, eg:

Handling deficiencies.
Poor SE performance.
Unreliable and ergonomically unsafe NAVWASS.
Wheel brakes that when used conventionally generated sufficient heat to blow the fusible plugs in the wheels.
Unable to be used to demonstrate swept wing stalling or spinning - T2 unrecoverable from a spin without an anti-spin chute!
Fuel system emergencies that confused everyone - this led to a land immediately instruction being extant for some time in the event of any fuel emergency.

The French were even more daring and ordered a navalised version to embark. An intent dropped 'plus vite' when single engine bolter performance was assessed.

As for the Reds using it - it required many thousands of feet to loop even a clean aircraft.

lm

......Fuel system emergencies that confused everyone....

I'll drink to that!!!!

Open N1/N2 etc.

Lightning Mate

I know my brains has become addled over the years but wasn't it:-

STUPRE, Not STUPER

Speed
Trim
Unclock
Power
Raise the Guard
Exhaust

I seem to remember there was a 'C' at the end but can't for the life in me remember what it stands for.

I'll now retreat behind the bar to shelter from the incoming.

2 TWU

No incoming - I stand corrected, you are right.
WTFO Unclock? Did you mean unlock?

LM

LM

That will probably explain why I never got the drill correct in the aircraft!

It was STUPRECCC by the time I got to 4FTS!

S - Speed below 400/.85
T - Trim to the feel trim safe/ideal sector
U - Unlock the elevators
P - Power cock (hydraulic) OFF
R - Raise the standby trim switch guard
E - Exhaust the aileron and tailplane accumulators
C - Check standby trim response
C - Changeover (Mod 399) switches as required (transferred standby trim to the stick top switches)
C - Check standby trim using Mod 399s

And CUBSTUNT following AC/DC fail?

C - Cabin altimeter cock to 'static'
U - Standby UHF ON
B - Boost pump OFF
S - Speed below 300/.7
T - Trim load free
U - Unlock the elevators
N - Non essential electrics OFF
T - Transponder to 7700

Any errors / corrections gratefully received - it's 34 years since I last flew a Gnat! And I was cr@p, but the instructors were top chaps!

Thanks for that, Beags!:ok::ok::ok:

Blimey BEagle!

It seems it was all getting too complex by 1975.
CUBSTUNT - could well get that in the wrong order if your mind strayed from one job to another......:=

I flew the G-Nat in 1967, which shows my age....BOF:zzz:

2 TWU

When were you at Vachly then, and what did you move on to?:ok:

Orrabest to all,
LM