Vulcan Bomb-bay question
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vulcan Bomb-bay question
On the B2 Vulcan (or at least on some of them) there is a bowden cable arrangement connecting a lever on the emergency bomb-bay door selector valve to a pull-ring in the No 3 engine bay.
What was it for and/or when would it be used?
What was it for and/or when would it be used?
Last edited by sooty655; 7th Mar 2009 at 18:33. Reason: typo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was this just on aircraft modified to carry the Blue Steel missile?
Do you have any theories what it might be for?
So the short answer is No, we haven't any sensible idea at all.
Sooty
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If opened, the bomb doors would hit the open engine doors, so it could be to prevent accidents.
PS.
XM655 which was built with the Blue Steel mods, but then unmodded.
Last edited by forget; 8th Mar 2009 at 17:00.
The Blue Steel was fitted with an emergency dump valve, to release the HTP into a water pit in the event of a fire.
I wonder whether this ring pull device was in some way connected with the emergency HTP dump system?
I wonder whether this ring pull device was in some way connected with the emergency HTP dump system?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So far as I know the entire final batch was never intended to be Blue Steel.
Chiefs were for that.
I wonder whether this ring pull device was in some way connected with the emergency HTP dump system?
In its present configuration, the ringpull moves a lever which presses on one of the manual buttons on the emergency bomb door selector valve. I don't know whether it is the Open or Close button, but I will trace the pipework next weekend to find out.
The arrangement doesn't appear in any of our fairly comprehensive manuals, but they have been collected over the years, and don't necessarily reflect our specific aircraft.
Sooty
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Midlands
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Sooty,
The set up you describe is not only limited to Blue Steel Vulcans and indeed XH558 is also fitted with exactly the same arrangement.
The ring pull is designed so that the Bomb Bay door emergency solenoid can be manually operated to open the bomb doors without requiring electrical power. The selector valves used on the Vulcan, and other aircraft of the time, were able to be manually operated to move the shuttle valve inside the selector, thus giving hydraulic flow one way or the other. As you say, the ring pull connects to a lever which depresses the OPEN side of the actuator, thus allowing the doors to be manually opened. Why you would specifically want to do this, I can't tell you, however provision was made for it, and it was an item that we had to functionally test and sign for when we rebuilt 558. Having rebuilt the Hyd system personally, I am pleased to confirm that all worked as advertised!!
Hope that clears that issue up.
Flipflopman
The set up you describe is not only limited to Blue Steel Vulcans and indeed XH558 is also fitted with exactly the same arrangement.
The ring pull is designed so that the Bomb Bay door emergency solenoid can be manually operated to open the bomb doors without requiring electrical power. The selector valves used on the Vulcan, and other aircraft of the time, were able to be manually operated to move the shuttle valve inside the selector, thus giving hydraulic flow one way or the other. As you say, the ring pull connects to a lever which depresses the OPEN side of the actuator, thus allowing the doors to be manually opened. Why you would specifically want to do this, I can't tell you, however provision was made for it, and it was an item that we had to functionally test and sign for when we rebuilt 558. Having rebuilt the Hyd system personally, I am pleased to confirm that all worked as advertised!!
Hope that clears that issue up.
Flipflopman
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks
Thanks for that, FFM.
I assume the idea would be for one guy to pull the ring, and the rest of the crew to haul on the doors.
Since the ring is in the No 3 engine bay, I guess that the sooty pulled the ring, thereby avoiding any real work.
Seems like an ideal arrangement to me.
Sooty
I assume the idea would be for one guy to pull the ring, and the rest of the crew to haul on the doors.
Since the ring is in the No 3 engine bay, I guess that the sooty pulled the ring, thereby avoiding any real work.
Seems like an ideal arrangement to me.
Sooty
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....... and the rest of the crew to haul on the doors.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ring pull is on the emergency selector valve. If you have no electrics, you also have no pump. The main pumps wouldn't feed through the emergency valve.
Sooty
Sooty
Last edited by sooty655; 8th Mar 2009 at 20:20. Reason: clarity
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about plugging a hydraulic rig into the bomb bay jacks? Take an aircraft in hangar with no electrics allowed due maintenance. Need the bomb doors open?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hydraulic rig connects to main system. If that was the intention, ringpull would be on the main system valve, which would have been just as easy, but it ain't what we have got.
Sooty
Sooty
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Midlands
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello again!
Thank you very much for your kind words. To answer a few questions, sadly I'm not still working on 558, but remain on very good terms with TVOC and the lads currently looking after her and I'm delighted with the current news. I tend to be around here most days, but as I'm no longer aware of the day to day dealings with 558 and TVOC, it's not really my place to join in with much of the rumour and speculation which surrounds the project!
Anyhow!
It's a little of both really, regarding the hauling on doors! The Emergency system for the Bomb Doors is almost a small seperate system that has a constant bleed to the main return line, so that useage of the Emgy system does not impact upon the normal operation of the doors. This means that when the solenoid is manually operated, a few sturdily built chaps hanging off the doors, will open the doors and the Hyd fluid will be routed via the Emgy solenoid, back into the main return line. Forget is also completely correct though, in that with a Hyd rig connected to the aircraft, the manual ring pull can be used to open the bomb doors without electrical power being required.
Hope that answers more questions than it raises!!
Flipflopman
Thank you very much for your kind words. To answer a few questions, sadly I'm not still working on 558, but remain on very good terms with TVOC and the lads currently looking after her and I'm delighted with the current news. I tend to be around here most days, but as I'm no longer aware of the day to day dealings with 558 and TVOC, it's not really my place to join in with much of the rumour and speculation which surrounds the project!
Anyhow!
It's a little of both really, regarding the hauling on doors! The Emergency system for the Bomb Doors is almost a small seperate system that has a constant bleed to the main return line, so that useage of the Emgy system does not impact upon the normal operation of the doors. This means that when the solenoid is manually operated, a few sturdily built chaps hanging off the doors, will open the doors and the Hyd fluid will be routed via the Emgy solenoid, back into the main return line. Forget is also completely correct though, in that with a Hyd rig connected to the aircraft, the manual ring pull can be used to open the bomb doors without electrical power being required.
Hope that answers more questions than it raises!!
Flipflopman
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hope that answers more questions than it raises
However, it does raise one.
with a Hyd rig connected to the aircraft, the manual ring pull can be used to open the bomb doors without electrical power being required.
) brain around that one. I don't think hydraulic pressure from a (normally connected) rig would be routed to the bomb door rams via the emergency valve.I haven't got a hydraulic system diagram at home, so I will have to wait till next Saturday to check it out at Wellesbourne.
Sooty
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sooty, Slight thread drift here. I see from the 558 web 655 Maintenance & Preservation Society - History
that ‘Even the ECM gear was left in, and the ECM bay is 100% complete. Work on the bay is continuing to bring it back into fully working condition’.
Interesting, and I’m all for this sort of thing - but that’s a non starter. Even if the Red Shrimps and (presumably) X Band still worked (which they won’t, trust me) turning them on these days could zap untold new microwave systems.
For what it’s worth – here’s what I’d do. The ECM equipment, inside, is a work of ‘60s electro mechanical beauty. All systems are in pressurised ‘dust bin’ cans which may be easily sectioned to show the innards. They’d make a helluva static display in the hangar. Maybe you don’t do static displays - but Newark ought to. I’ll be visiting you when the weather cheers up and I’ll give you a call to show you what I mean. If you ever do section them, take your watch off first. The Carcinitron magnets in the Shrimps will suck a spanner across the hangar.
that ‘Even the ECM gear was left in, and the ECM bay is 100% complete. Work on the bay is continuing to bring it back into fully working condition’.
Interesting, and I’m all for this sort of thing - but that’s a non starter. Even if the Red Shrimps and (presumably) X Band still worked (which they won’t, trust me) turning them on these days could zap untold new microwave systems.
For what it’s worth – here’s what I’d do. The ECM equipment, inside, is a work of ‘60s electro mechanical beauty. All systems are in pressurised ‘dust bin’ cans which may be easily sectioned to show the innards. They’d make a helluva static display in the hangar. Maybe you don’t do static displays - but Newark ought to. I’ll be visiting you when the weather cheers up and I’ll give you a call to show you what I mean. If you ever do section them, take your watch off first. The Carcinitron magnets in the Shrimps will suck a spanner across the hangar.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for a quiz.
Your starter for ten.
Q. Why might you wish to open the bomb doors without applying electrical power?
Your starter for ten.
Q. Why might you wish to open the bomb doors without applying electrical power?