First flight of 'Shack' - 9 Mar '49
Water meth?
I wonder if other a/c types had the same probs with water meth as the Shack seemed to have?
IIRC the normal t/o settings were 2600 and 58" of boost and that with water meth it went up to 2750 and 84". No doubt someone will put me right. However it always seemed to be a wildly unpredictable process accompanied by lots of earsplitting bangs and drop outs causing alarm on the footplate and the eng's panel.
One night we finally got airborne in water meth and in the silence as everyone's heart rate subsided a small voice from the starboard beam announced " I know the exhausts are brighter at night but the flames are way past the tailplanes" Fire in no. 4. Shut down. Capt opts to get opinion of authoriser who happened to be the sqn boss. Stay a/b and burn it off was the advice (no dump in those days). Bollocks says capt and put it very carefully back on the runway. Boss appears at the pan and proceeds to bollock capt as there were no signs of fire on no.4. As we turned away the eng's torch swept across no. 3 and there we saw the entire contents of engine oil had spewed out into the exhaust flare of no.4(gulping I think it was called). Had we stayed a/b how long would no.3 lasted with no oil?? Do we restart an engine shut down for engine fire??? would the beast fly at that that weight on 2 - er no.
Phew! Retired to the scruffs for a few beers and felt better.
The Ancient Mariner
IIRC the normal t/o settings were 2600 and 58" of boost and that with water meth it went up to 2750 and 84". No doubt someone will put me right. However it always seemed to be a wildly unpredictable process accompanied by lots of earsplitting bangs and drop outs causing alarm on the footplate and the eng's panel.
One night we finally got airborne in water meth and in the silence as everyone's heart rate subsided a small voice from the starboard beam announced " I know the exhausts are brighter at night but the flames are way past the tailplanes" Fire in no. 4. Shut down. Capt opts to get opinion of authoriser who happened to be the sqn boss. Stay a/b and burn it off was the advice (no dump in those days). Bollocks says capt and put it very carefully back on the runway. Boss appears at the pan and proceeds to bollock capt as there were no signs of fire on no.4. As we turned away the eng's torch swept across no. 3 and there we saw the entire contents of engine oil had spewed out into the exhaust flare of no.4(gulping I think it was called). Had we stayed a/b how long would no.3 lasted with no oil?? Do we restart an engine shut down for engine fire??? would the beast fly at that that weight on 2 - er no.
Phew! Retired to the scruffs for a few beers and felt better.
The Ancient Mariner
SV your piccy
The foreground view is better than the background one! Francoise Morel and her friends - non?
The Ancient Mariner
The foreground view is better than the background one! Francoise Morel and her friends - non?
The Ancient Mariner
But you're right.. a cut above a Burghead prawn peeler..!
sv
Griffon question
Deborah has asked me what the difference is between the Griffon Mk 57 & the 58..?
Despite Google being a good mate, I haven't been able to find out the answer for her..
Any ideas..?
TIA
sv
Thread creep: good scoreline from Anfield at the moment of typing!
Despite Google being a good mate, I haven't been able to find out the answer for her..
Any ideas..?
TIA
sv
Thread creep: good scoreline from Anfield at the moment of typing!
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I found this picture in a brown OHMS envelope in the attic! It is probably the Coronation Flypast but I cannot be sure as I was only 2yrs old then.
My Fathers logbook shows he was flying formation details in Shacketon "B" on 24th & 25th April from Bally Kelly (269 Sqdn) but not on the day of the Coronation Flypast (2nd June or 15th July).
My Fathers logbook shows he was flying formation details in Shacketon "B" on 24th & 25th April from Bally Kelly (269 Sqdn) but not on the day of the Coronation Flypast (2nd June or 15th July).
Last edited by donthaveone; 12th Mar 2009 at 19:31.
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As a elect/ mech air at Gib with 224 squadron in 1951/53 we had Shack 1s but befor I left the Mk2 was a visitor on proving flights and one of the aircrew said he had the misfortune to have occupied the position in the tail as a viewing position and was very sick as it had a slight continuous circular motion was this a 1 off or was it common to all mk2s ? we did not disbelieve him as he looked very green and unsteady .
[thinks how can I remember this after all these years and cant remember what I actually did last week.]
[thinks how can I remember this after all these years and cant remember what I actually did last week.]
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205 Sqn at Changi in 1962. 2c's and 1A's.
The Aussies leave their mark. 205 sqn 1A at Changi (western dispersal) early 1962.
WL745 the first 2c for 205 sqn does some engine out practice.
David Taylor.
The Aussies leave their mark. 205 sqn 1A at Changi (western dispersal) early 1962.
WL745 the first 2c for 205 sqn does some engine out practice.
David Taylor.
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More Pictures
It's taken me a while to figure out how to put these images on at the right size but I got there in the end!
Unfortunately there are no dates with these pictures but they were taken between April 52 and April 55.
The formation pictures have "Air Ministry" stamped on the back.
Unfortunately there are no dates with these pictures but they were taken between April 52 and April 55.
The formation pictures have "Air Ministry" stamped on the back.
Last edited by donthaveone; 15th Mar 2009 at 13:58.
So that was the fabled Shackleton Diamond 17 formation..?
The sound of those 68 mighty Griffons must have rattled tea cups right across central London..
Where are all the stories..? (I know they're out there!)
The sound of those 68 mighty Griffons must have rattled tea cups right across central London..
Where are all the stories..? (I know they're out there!)
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donthaveone's pic of WL 796 with 1, 2 and 4 shut down looked familiar and made me scramble for a publication resting beside my desk. Found it. This limited edition book, compiled by a gentleman named Harry Holmes and was presented to those of us lucky enough to attend Woodford for the 40th aniversary of the Shacklebomber in March 1989.
On page 20, there is a pic of WL 796, complete with Saro Mk 3 airborne lifeboat, flying along the the Farnborough display line with 1, 2 and 3 feathered...and no more than one wingspan (120 feet) above the ground. Test pilot Johnny Baker is credited as the driver.
In the mid 80's, we were honoured to have a student from the US Naval test Pilots School come and have a play.
How this works is thus: the student gets towards the end of his course. The final task is to carry out the complete flight test regime on a type of his choice. This chap decided to try something completely different. An AVRO Shackleton. The Boss agreed to the request, and the student, complete with supervising Instructor arrive and go through the whole nine yards. Starting with basic measurements of aircraft, turning circles, mechanicals, etc, etc. The student has to build the Flight Manual for this aircraft of his choice. Strictly speaking, he is not allowed to look at the published Flight Manual. Well, that would defeat the object of being a Test Pilot for a new type, wouldn't it?
Onwards to ground handling, brake performance tests, turns without scrubbing the inboard main, etc.
Then flying. Straightforward stuff to start with. Take off and climb ahead, gentle turns etc. Approaches and go-arounds.
Then landings. We all stood out to watch, as the ol'e Grey Lady was intolerant of ham-fisted and lapsidaisical misshandling.
Now, before you start shaking your heads, remember that an experienced Flight Engineer was manning his post, and the Squadron QFI was also on board.
This colonial upstart made everyone's jaw drop. I never saw one bouncer. Nor did I see any sideways scrubbing. All of this from a young, conventional (i.e. nosewheel) trained pilot who would be completely unfamiliar with operating a 42 ton, four-engined taildragger. Bear in mind, due to the radome housing the AN/APS 20 radar scanner, all landings had to be three-pointers. Of course, I didn't see all his landings. But, maybe, just maybe, these US Naval types are a bit good at what they do.
As the testing continued, certain, normally avoided parts of the flight envelope were approached. For instance, deliberatly shutting down and feathering both one one side, and then exploring yaw inputs.
The only real stopping input the QFI made was 'NO SPINNING'. The loss of the Mk 3 prototype during spinning trials lay the ground rule for this decision on all Shacks.
From the feedback I heard, the student graduated with top marks plus.
It is nice to know that a a 1950's airframe with a 1940's radar system that, 20 years after it was originally withdrawn from service, was employed into the 1990's in the primary defence of the Realm, and in the process helped to contribute to modern flight testing for the worlds largest naval air arm.
camlobe
On page 20, there is a pic of WL 796, complete with Saro Mk 3 airborne lifeboat, flying along the the Farnborough display line with 1, 2 and 3 feathered...and no more than one wingspan (120 feet) above the ground. Test pilot Johnny Baker is credited as the driver.
In the mid 80's, we were honoured to have a student from the US Naval test Pilots School come and have a play.
How this works is thus: the student gets towards the end of his course. The final task is to carry out the complete flight test regime on a type of his choice. This chap decided to try something completely different. An AVRO Shackleton. The Boss agreed to the request, and the student, complete with supervising Instructor arrive and go through the whole nine yards. Starting with basic measurements of aircraft, turning circles, mechanicals, etc, etc. The student has to build the Flight Manual for this aircraft of his choice. Strictly speaking, he is not allowed to look at the published Flight Manual. Well, that would defeat the object of being a Test Pilot for a new type, wouldn't it?
Onwards to ground handling, brake performance tests, turns without scrubbing the inboard main, etc.
Then flying. Straightforward stuff to start with. Take off and climb ahead, gentle turns etc. Approaches and go-arounds.
Then landings. We all stood out to watch, as the ol'e Grey Lady was intolerant of ham-fisted and lapsidaisical misshandling.
Now, before you start shaking your heads, remember that an experienced Flight Engineer was manning his post, and the Squadron QFI was also on board.
This colonial upstart made everyone's jaw drop. I never saw one bouncer. Nor did I see any sideways scrubbing. All of this from a young, conventional (i.e. nosewheel) trained pilot who would be completely unfamiliar with operating a 42 ton, four-engined taildragger. Bear in mind, due to the radome housing the AN/APS 20 radar scanner, all landings had to be three-pointers. Of course, I didn't see all his landings. But, maybe, just maybe, these US Naval types are a bit good at what they do.
As the testing continued, certain, normally avoided parts of the flight envelope were approached. For instance, deliberatly shutting down and feathering both one one side, and then exploring yaw inputs.
The only real stopping input the QFI made was 'NO SPINNING'. The loss of the Mk 3 prototype during spinning trials lay the ground rule for this decision on all Shacks.
From the feedback I heard, the student graduated with top marks plus.
It is nice to know that a a 1950's airframe with a 1940's radar system that, 20 years after it was originally withdrawn from service, was employed into the 1990's in the primary defence of the Realm, and in the process helped to contribute to modern flight testing for the worlds largest naval air arm.
camlobe
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Thank you dontraveone for the pictures especially the one of the Shack 1 at Gibraltar It is a 224 squadron aircraft the "B" aft of the door was the letter as that squadron and looking at the state of it I would say early 1951 they got rather grubby after that with exhaust gasses and the amount of flying working up for our trips further afield .
Shackletons
The same co-pilot(210 Sqn) had applied for a commission. At Biggin Hill he was asked who Mcnamara was. His reply of "the leader of the band" did not go down too well! He later became a civilian pilot on 707s, and there my trace ends