PPRuNe Forums

Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th Mar 2009, 12:48   #121 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 14
In November 1972 I did an 8 day round the world Eastbound on Standard and Super VC10's with the late, great Dougie Cooper. I am not sure whether it was the taxing schedule,which included a Melbourne shuttle out of Sydney, or the frolics on the night-stops that demanded a 2 day sleep on return to London!
Foul-Sudan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Mar 2009, 13:00   #122 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 693
Wasn't Bella there to keep an eye on him, then ... ?


PS you mean 18-day, surely ...
Jumbo Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Mar 2009, 13:18   #123 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 14
Bella was supposed to 'greet' Dougie in the hotel in LA,being westbound on the 591, but got caught in traffic causing much humour and mayhem.
We had operated 'on the bug' HNL-LAX,climb,cruise and descent to improve the 'layover' time in the hotel!
To our astonishment we made up 25 minutes flight time and used 1500kgs
less fuel.
It was an EIGHT day round the world!
Foul-Sudan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Mar 2009, 16:16   #124 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by wayoutwest View Post
g/day all.did boac and british airways use the vc10 on their round the world service? i think it went out via the usa down to NZ and home via australia and the middle east.i seem to remember BA had another service using vc10s from joburg -seychelles to india or singapore.
Over the years BOAC went forwards and backwards between the 707 and the VC10 on these services, depending on how they were deploying their fleet. Because the crews were qualified on only one type, of course, and due to the large number of crew slips that took place, changing from one type to another was a substantial logistical exercise and so was only done rarely.

There were two transpacific routes, the northern one through Honolulu, Tokyo, Hong Kong etc, and the southern one through Honolulu, Fiji, Australasian points, etc. The northern route went back to Bristol Britanna days (when they stopped at Wake Island between Honolulu and Tokyo) and was based around British route authority to serve to the USA from Hong Kong; the later route from Hong Kong to South Africa was similar. Cathay Pacific in those days was a limited regional carrier. The southern route also had a predecessor in Bitish Commonwealth Pacific Airways, a joint UK-Australia-New Zealand operator of transpacific services in the 1940s-50s, which BOAC had a 20% shareholding in.
WHBM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Mar 2009, 17:24   #125 (permalink)

A Runyonesque Character
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The South of France ... Not
Age: 68
Posts: 1,210
I think the Northern route was gone by the time I joined in 1967.

The Indian Ocean route was to capitalise on the opening up of the Seychelles ‘unspoilt paradise’ when the airport was upgraded, previously it was limited to Friendships from Mombasa, I think.

When talking of transpacific routes, don’t forget the Qantas 581, surely the most exotic routing ever: London – Bermuda – Nassau – Mexico City – Acapulco – Papeete – Nandi – Sydney.
(Not with a VC10 - thread drift - sorry)
The SSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2009, 20:33   #126 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: southwest
Age: 72
Posts: 287
Test! Who said this, about what, and when?

"We have handed to the Americans, without a struggle, the entire world market for big jet airliners".
Dysag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2009, 21:02   #127 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 1,016
That's an easy one, but I'll leave the answer open so others can have a go.
Jhieminga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2009, 11:23   #128 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,413
George Edwards, Vickers managing director.

Less easy to name those who, from among the movers and shakers who could and should have changed things, failed to take any notice whatsoever of George Edwards while pursuing their own flawed purposes.
Capot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2009, 16:31   #129 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 315
BOAC must have abandoned the North Pacific route, then operated by 707-436 around 1970. It was certainly operated in 67/68 and had an optional Wake Island tech call westbound followed by a nightstop in Tokyo before proceeding as the next days' Tokyo-Hong Kong-Various x 3 or 4- London.

The VC10 from Tokyo to Jo'burg started in 1972. Originally once a week it routed Tokyo/Hong Kong/ Columbo/Seychelles/Jo'burg and then back to Tokyo with a second service operating the same route but from Seychelles to Nairobi and on to London. This was later abandoned and both went to Jo'burg and in due course became 747 operated. During the cabin crew strike later in the 70s this route kept going as the strike was only ex London and BA simply re-rostered all on the route at the time to keep doing it and never touch London.

Had BA not sold Hong Kong Airways to Cathay ,originally in exchange for a shareholding in the latter, they could have continued to this day operating all Hong Kong Airways routes,- ie all points north of Hong Kong and North Pacific. At the time it had problems making these pay even with Viscounts and thought they were of no long term interest.
Skylion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2009, 16:34   #130 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 24
Whilst the above an ironic quote from the late great Sir George Edwards, my personal favourite of his (at the risk of going slightly off-topic), was on the first commercial flight of Concorde. A VIP sitting next to Sir George commented that, flying at twice the speed of sound in Concorde seemed absolutely no different, as to flying in a conventional subsonic jetliner. Sir George laconically replied 'yes, that was the difficult bit...'
crisso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st Mar 2009, 01:08   #131 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14

I Share Your Enthusiasm Best Aircraft Ever, In A Lull Period I Had An Hour In The Right Hand Seat Waiting For Trade And Had A Touch Of The Column, I Will Never Ever Forget It, It Was Superb A Marvelous Aeroplane
AIRCRAFTSNAPPER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Apr 2009, 03:05   #132 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In "BIG SKY".
Age: 78
Posts: 419
I flew at least 3 North Pacific trips in late 1971/72 on -436's. We went eastbound all the way to Tokyo-Honolulu-San Francisco then turned around and went back the way we came!! It was a killer with the time changes and then reversing direction.

The first one I did by deadheading to replace somebody in Honolulu and went West bound with Qantas. I then picked up the -436 for the trip home all West bound. Round the world in 8 days and felt fine. The next one was the regular schedule and it was awful even for a young lad.

Speedbird 48.
Speedbird48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Apr 2009, 07:48   #133 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: london
Posts: 374
dysag: Q: who said... “a decision we (=UK will) regret for many years (the biggest) blunder of all”.

A: That, too, was GRE, re. VC.7/V.1000 (D.Wood, Project Cancelled,P97)

Q: But who said: weight “would prevent (V.1000) providing required payload/ range.”

Q: Who said: “cancelled (as) I could not find a customer. BOAC did not want (/RAF) could not afford it”.

A1: H.Wynn, (Official) History of RAF Transport Command: Forged in War,HMSO,96,P96. A2: MoS R.Maudling,P62,Memoirs,Sidgwick,78.

There's always a good reason for Ministers to cancel, and incur tabloid odium at "waste".
tornadoken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Apr 2009, 09:07   #134 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London UK
Posts: 456
I thought the controversy over V1000 was that BOAC said they didn't want it because there was no need for new jets. Then as soon as the jigs were broken up ordered 707s.
Dr Jekyll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st Apr 2009, 18:12   #135 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toulouse area, France
Age: 87
Posts: 439
Exclamation Getting back ...

And only now (or at least since the mid-70s) is UK, via its originally unenthusiastic toe-hold in Airbus, anywhere at all in the big-jet market. Worra load of muppets Brtiannia has had to put up with all these years (and I include Maggie T. for her remark about the A320 "I hope it doesn't turn into another Concorde" - it's paid a good lot of royalties in its career, but Gweat Bwittain PLC still doesn't want to know about things designed and built by engineers).
Rant over - for now ...
Jig Peter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Apr 2009, 09:37   #136 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: near an airplane
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by tornadoken
Q: But who said: weight “would prevent (V.1000) providing required payload/ range.”
That's an interesting statement. Unfortunately we will not know whether this would've become true but is there some more backing for this statement perhaps? It was also said that the weight of the civil version was moving down as the development progressed, we also know (isn't hindsight great) that the Conway did develop the promised power levels, a bit more even.
While it may have been a valid reason at that point to cancel the V.1000, couldn't we say that with a bit more faith in the skills of Vickers and Rolls-Royce it may have been a feeble reason? Obviously this is hindsight talking but personally I'm still wondering if the reasons were good enough. Anyway, with the V.1000 there may not have been a VC10 so should we really complain.....
Jhieminga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Apr 2009, 11:29   #137 (permalink)
Wee Jock McPlop
Posts: n/a
Is that f...... Brize?

One of my fondest memories of my time at Brize Radar in the early 90s, was when BAe were flying the stored (former BA) airframes out of Abingdon to Filton.

As I understood it from the guys on 10/101 Sqns, they only had one set of 4 Conways for all the frames and swapped them over to the next airframe once the ferry flight had been completed. The gear and flaps were apparently down and welded and a basic avionics kit installed - indeed the radio was set on a single frequency for the whole ferry flight. They were granted permission to fly by the CAA on a 'one flight only' basis to Filton and in VFR conditions only. As I recall, the aircraft were flown/crewed by BAe 'test pilots/engineers'. Whoever they were, they were brave guys, given that the beasts had been stored outside in their 'cocoons' for so long.

Anyway, one of these flights got airborne out of Abingdon and checked-in with us at Brize Radar. Trouble was, they then got a stuck transmit switch for much of the transit across to Bristol! Much hilarity was had as the crew discussed where they thought they were as they made the transit across to Bristol. They played 'what's the airfield' as they looked across to Brize, Fairford and Kemble sliding past on the starboard side. They also played 'what's the town/village'.

However, it was the rather 'fruity' language that they used during their conversations that turned the air over Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire/Wiltshire an even brighter shade of blue than it already was!!

Is that f......g Brize?
Na mate it's f......g Fairford!
Na it's f.....g not!

Anyway, you get the drift. The 5-10 minutes that this went on for were amongst the funniest I've had when on duty as an air trafficker! By the end of it, everyone at Brize Radar was listening in to the alternative geography lesson! The guys only realised that they had a problem when they saw Bristol looming up and were surprised that we had not mentioned to them to listen out for Filton. Having 'unstuck' and regained two-way, we thanked them very much for the in-flight entertainment that they had provided. A very red-faced crew then sheepishly checked in with Filton.

As thanks for the entertainment, we got the CIS Eng guys to make a recording of the r/t from our tapes and sent it to the guys, who I think were Warton-based. I'm not so sure they appreciated our gift!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2009, 10:18   #138 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Channel Islands
Posts: 131

I seem to remember that there used to be graffiti on the flight deck something like "put Guthrie in Khartoum" cos it was him that was responsible for badmouthing the VC10.

By the way if you want to hear and see that marvellous a/craft just get near Brize Norton. I was there about a month ago in a village close by and the sight and the sound of the VC10 made me wish I was up there poling the plane round the sky.

I had an incident near Beirut when my first officer said to me what are those spiralling things coming up towards us!!! We then realised that they were SAM heat seeking missiles being fired at 2 Israeli Phantoms and there we were with these 4 rear mounted engines ready to be heat seeked. It took a bit of a manouevre to get away, and when I spoke to the Station Officer in Beirut about it when we landed he told me it weas quite normal in fact one came across the airfield yesterday. I phoned BALPA as soon as we landed in London and they got the company to cease ops to Beirut. Another good reason to keep looking out of the front/side of the flight deck windows!!!!!!!
Tercarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2009, 09:04   #139 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Harwell
Age: 55
Posts: 28
VC10 Recoveries from Abingdon

Just a small note, there crew was not Warton based asthe two pilots were the chief pilot from pilot and his number two.

The aircraft were rebuilt at Abingdon with basic systems under the control of a Filton enginnering team.

On arrival at Filton the aircraft were put into the strip phase ready fro conversion.

I was very much involved in the conversion project as manpower planning manager but left before the first aircraft, ZD242, was delivered but did at least see the first two test flights.

Awesome aircraft and an incredible feat to recover them from Abingdon.
Thunderbird167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2009, 11:13   #140 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,925
Fly past at White Waltham
Silver Jubilee Air Show 1977
Not my picture.

I wasn't there, unfortunately.

Did anyone here do the fly past?

(Edited to correct date)

Flying Lawyer is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT. The time now is 17:36.

© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1