Thorney Island Emsworth
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BOAC,
even if you weren't sure what I was asking, you've answered it - if you were ever an instructor ( I'd suppose definitely in your career, even if not given that title; maybe you were - either way obviously a good one ).
It struck me that it was a radial in the photo', but as someone mentioned he could ' see the tappets ' I thought maybe it was just me so I kept my head down on that one.
It seems likely that more than one aircraft overshot leaving the crew swimming ( I hope ) but there is not a sign of anything now.
At low Spring tides ( I'm sure you know, spring tides go up higher & down lower, thus faster flow, every full & new moon so every 2 weeks; in the weeks in between 'neap' tides go up & down less, with a slower flow, nothing to do with Spring as in season ).
As I say I've been there countless times at low water springs, so unless something is in the centre of the Emsworth Channel - depth at LWS about 2-4 metres, and unlikely as it is scoured by fishing boats - I reckon whatever went in was fully recovered.
even if you weren't sure what I was asking, you've answered it - if you were ever an instructor ( I'd suppose definitely in your career, even if not given that title; maybe you were - either way obviously a good one ).
It struck me that it was a radial in the photo', but as someone mentioned he could ' see the tappets ' I thought maybe it was just me so I kept my head down on that one.
It seems likely that more than one aircraft overshot leaving the crew swimming ( I hope ) but there is not a sign of anything now.
At low Spring tides ( I'm sure you know, spring tides go up higher & down lower, thus faster flow, every full & new moon so every 2 weeks; in the weeks in between 'neap' tides go up & down less, with a slower flow, nothing to do with Spring as in season ).
As I say I've been there countless times at low water springs, so unless something is in the centre of the Emsworth Channel - depth at LWS about 2-4 metres, and unlikely as it is scoured by fishing boats - I reckon whatever went in was fully recovered.
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BOAC
I too have fond memories of watching traffic from Southbourne (Breach Avenue). My parents moved there circa 1971, and on visiting them, could sit in the garden and watch C130s and Andovers trundling overhead.
I too have fond memories of watching traffic from Southbourne (Breach Avenue). My parents moved there circa 1971, and on visiting them, could sit in the garden and watch C130s and Andovers trundling overhead.
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Wasn't the first loss of an RAF C-130 at Thorney?
I seem to recall reading (Airclues?) years ago of an 'Albert' doing an approach with starboard inner shutdown. On overshooting, instead of starting the starboard inner, the starboard outer was shut down by mistake.
The resulting asymmetric caused the aircraft to plunge into a vertical dive.
Edited
It was at Colerne, not Thorney. Ignore all above.
I seem to recall reading (Airclues?) years ago of an 'Albert' doing an approach with starboard inner shutdown. On overshooting, instead of starting the starboard inner, the starboard outer was shut down by mistake.
The resulting asymmetric caused the aircraft to plunge into a vertical dive.
Edited
It was at Colerne, not Thorney. Ignore all above.
Last edited by taxydual; 8th Jan 2009 at 21:59. Reason: Tom put me right. Colerne not Thorney
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So if the JP had proper markings, wouldn't that infer an accident of some sort, presumably landing, which left the thing fit only for the dump? One can think of a few scenarios where it might have had a paint scheme before the rest of the fleet
Eh? I haven't a clue what you're talking about!
Eh? I haven't a clue what you're talking about!
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Thorney
Come on Tim,
You're supposed to be the one with imagination !
Take say, a senior pilot /Sqn Leader or higher, in an aircraft with a future paint scheme who manages to bend it on landing - need I say more ?!
You're supposed to be the one with imagination !
Take say, a senior pilot /Sqn Leader or higher, in an aircraft with a future paint scheme who manages to bend it on landing - need I say more ?!
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Here as promised are the remaining photos that I have of the aircraft remains at Thorney Island. Probably not enough to identify the aircraft type but certainly proof that the engines were not sleeve valved.
Remnants of aircraft structure
Close up of one cylinder
Over to the experts.
QuePee
Remnants of aircraft structure
Close up of one cylinder
Over to the experts.
QuePee
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BOAC,
I do not know the full story of the mishap suffered by XV181, but here is another photo that shows the damage suffered perhaps a little better than the one I posted previously..
QuePee
I do not know the full story of the mishap suffered by XV181, but here is another photo that shows the damage suffered perhaps a little better than the one I posted previously..
QuePee
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Thorney mishap
What strikes me is the barnacles / growth on the close-up example shown.
Queepee,
That still looks like an air-cooled radial to me.
From experience ( my boat very near there has 2 coats of 'antifouling' paint, but since regulations came in we're not allowed to have effective paint * )
I'd reckon that had been in the water for roughly 6 months at the very least-coud in fact be a matter of years.
*
I used to consider myself quite a 'green' type -but since I've lived with my girlfriend with her large garden in the country, when visiting garden centres I disregard anything which doesn't have warning lables all over it, ideally nuclear.
Queepee,
That still looks like an air-cooled radial to me.
From experience ( my boat very near there has 2 coats of 'antifouling' paint, but since regulations came in we're not allowed to have effective paint * )
I'd reckon that had been in the water for roughly 6 months at the very least-coud in fact be a matter of years.
*
I used to consider myself quite a 'green' type -but since I've lived with my girlfriend with her large garden in the country, when visiting garden centres I disregard anything which doesn't have warning lables all over it, ideally nuclear.
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Double Zero,
There is no doubt in my mind......it is an air cooled radial, but as pointed out earlier it is not from a Beverley as originally believed.
QuePee
There is no doubt in my mind......it is an air cooled radial, but as pointed out earlier it is not from a Beverley as originally believed.
QuePee
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DZ, I just don't see why it would have been painted like that. As I said before, any aircraft destined for fire/rescue practice rarely gets repainted in flight-standard finish like that JP appears to be. They generally get a simple (and pretty rough) application of whatever paint happens to be available. A properly-applied camouflage with LAG undersides and full insignia isn't something that anyone would bother applying to a fire/rescue hulk. The application of proper serials also doesn't add-up. The Maintenance number should have been applied.
So, I'm inclined to think that the aircraft must have flown in those colours at some stage but I can't imagine why. It was long before Brawdy came along and started flying JP's, indeed at that time it was only Chivenor that would have had any aircraft in the FAC role, and they were still using Meteors and a Chipmunk (in grey/dayglow) at that time. If the aircraft's previous base had been Cranwell, then it would have been painted in the standard silver/dayglow scheme or possibly the red/white/grey scheme that was just starting to be introduced. But camouflage? Having examined the photo though, it does look as if there's some trace of orange under the base of the rudder and on the nose? If so, that does suggest that the paint wasn't applied all that well, so it could have been intended as only a temporary finish?
It's a complete mystery and potentially a very interesting one as I've never seen any mention (or picture) of this before. Come on, someone out there must know what it's all about?! If it was painted-up like that just for fire/rescue work, then they must have had some very enthusiastic (or bored!) paint finishers at Thorney Island!
So, I'm inclined to think that the aircraft must have flown in those colours at some stage but I can't imagine why. It was long before Brawdy came along and started flying JP's, indeed at that time it was only Chivenor that would have had any aircraft in the FAC role, and they were still using Meteors and a Chipmunk (in grey/dayglow) at that time. If the aircraft's previous base had been Cranwell, then it would have been painted in the standard silver/dayglow scheme or possibly the red/white/grey scheme that was just starting to be introduced. But camouflage? Having examined the photo though, it does look as if there's some trace of orange under the base of the rudder and on the nose? If so, that does suggest that the paint wasn't applied all that well, so it could have been intended as only a temporary finish?
It's a complete mystery and potentially a very interesting one as I've never seen any mention (or picture) of this before. Come on, someone out there must know what it's all about?! If it was painted-up like that just for fire/rescue work, then they must have had some very enthusiastic (or bored!) paint finishers at Thorney Island!
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Tim,
"Come on, someone out there must know what it's all about?! If it was painted-up like that just for fire/rescue work, then they must have had some very enthusiastic (or bored!) paint finishers at Thorney Island!"
No "M" number was allocated to XM346. If it had flown at Cranwell in that camouflage finish, surely a photo would have come to light by now.
Remembering the RAFM/IWM collections, scattered around various RAF stations, there were plenty of oddly painted a/c, particularly the ME262 at Gaydon and the FW190 at Biggin Hill. Enthusiastic, bored or stocks of expired paint is probably an explaination.
Ciarain.
"Come on, someone out there must know what it's all about?! If it was painted-up like that just for fire/rescue work, then they must have had some very enthusiastic (or bored!) paint finishers at Thorney Island!"
No "M" number was allocated to XM346. If it had flown at Cranwell in that camouflage finish, surely a photo would have come to light by now.
Remembering the RAFM/IWM collections, scattered around various RAF stations, there were plenty of oddly painted a/c, particularly the ME262 at Gaydon and the FW190 at Biggin Hill. Enthusiastic, bored or stocks of expired paint is probably an explaination.
Ciarain.
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Does this solve the mystery of the camo JP?
Military Airshows in the UK
Photo on the RH Side of the page. Brawdy??
Military Airshows in the UK
Photo on the RH Side of the page. Brawdy??
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Thanks for feedback but no, I'm afraid it doesn't shed any more light on the matter. The camouflaged JP on the above link is a TWU machine from about ten years later when a handful of Mk.4 aircraft were camouflaged (but with red/blue roundels).
As KK says, you would think that if the aircraft had flown at Cranwell in camouflage, a photo would have emerged by now. But then, it seems that no photos of the aircraft at Thorney Island have appeared - until now.
If no M-number was applied, that makes the aircraft even more odd!
As KK says, you would think that if the aircraft had flown at Cranwell in camouflage, a photo would have emerged by now. But then, it seems that no photos of the aircraft at Thorney Island have appeared - until now.
If no M-number was applied, that makes the aircraft even more odd!
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The engine looks like a Bristol Pegasus/Mercury, nine cylinders, around 900hp. The arrangement of the tappet covers and the head finning looks right, and is quite different from P&w or Wright engines of a similar era. It's a long shot, but the Pegasus was fitted to the Swordfish, so it may be a WW2 relic.
The structural remains look like bits of a steel tube fabricated spar or fuselage, possibly an engine mount, as it is too solid for most of the Stringbag.
Dick
The structural remains look like bits of a steel tube fabricated spar or fuselage, possibly an engine mount, as it is too solid for most of the Stringbag.
Dick
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XM346 was one of several JP3s from the first production batch, SOC middle/late 1969 and sent for rescue/fire practice at Leeming, Linton-on-Ouse, Catterick and Little Rissington.
None of these a/c were allocated an "M" number.
The BAC 167 Strikemaster first flew at Warton on 26th October 1967.
There is nothing in XM346's service history suggesting use by BAC Warton.
Following the usual procedure, AAEE, Hunting Aircraft, XM346 served with CFS, 6.FTS and finally RAFC. There is a photo on a web-site(Google "XM346 Jet Provost") showing XM346 with 6.FTS coded "26" at Odiham in September 1962.
The comments relating to the fire dump at Cranwell earlier in this thread may be relevent here.
A public road led to the main gate at Thorney Island to allow access to Little Thorney church. The JP3 was easily seen close to this road on the left hand side just as one came over a small bridge. Did the station CO's wife or others not like the sight of this inoffensive a/c, so it was painted with whatever paint was to hand in order to "camouflage" it?
Ciarain.
None of these a/c were allocated an "M" number.
The BAC 167 Strikemaster first flew at Warton on 26th October 1967.
There is nothing in XM346's service history suggesting use by BAC Warton.
Following the usual procedure, AAEE, Hunting Aircraft, XM346 served with CFS, 6.FTS and finally RAFC. There is a photo on a web-site(Google "XM346 Jet Provost") showing XM346 with 6.FTS coded "26" at Odiham in September 1962.
The comments relating to the fire dump at Cranwell earlier in this thread may be relevent here.
A public road led to the main gate at Thorney Island to allow access to Little Thorney church. The JP3 was easily seen close to this road on the left hand side just as one came over a small bridge. Did the station CO's wife or others not like the sight of this inoffensive a/c, so it was painted with whatever paint was to hand in order to "camouflage" it?
Ciarain.
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JP Camoflage
I took the photograph of XM346 some 25+ years ago and have always assumed that it received its camoflage as a result of some enthusiastic paint finishers. After all there is the case of the camoflaged Gnat T1 at St Athan. That looked really well done and it had a serial applied, althopugh fictitious. I am not sure of the fate of the Gnat but when I photographed it around the same time as the JP its future did not look very promising.
QP
QP
The Brawdy 'Strikemouse', operated by JFACTSU, received its camouflage in early 1976.
The JPs were part of Standards Squadron, but were later transferred to 79 Sqn. Before they were withdrawn, they were repainted in that awful 'John Major grey' paint scheme.
Re. the Thorney Island JP, my best guess is that it was used for trade training by painters/finishers. In the same way that an F-4 I saw at El Paso had a stunning 'Korean war' midnight blue finish - but with a Playboy bunny on the tail. I had a photo of that, but someone at Air Forces Monthly either lost it or stole it....
The JPs were part of Standards Squadron, but were later transferred to 79 Sqn. Before they were withdrawn, they were repainted in that awful 'John Major grey' paint scheme.
Re. the Thorney Island JP, my best guess is that it was used for trade training by painters/finishers. In the same way that an F-4 I saw at El Paso had a stunning 'Korean war' midnight blue finish - but with a Playboy bunny on the tail. I had a photo of that, but someone at Air Forces Monthly either lost it or stole it....
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The wreckage that can still be seen in the mud near Thorney is not in the Emsworth Channel - it is in the Thorney Channel about 200 yards south of Prinstead point.
Park near Thornham marina and walk south along the seawall until you get to the stile, it is only a few yards offshore.
The harbour office at Itchenor have some bits picked up over the years from the harbour, including a drift computer designed to strap on a pilot's leg
Park near Thornham marina and walk south along the seawall until you get to the stile, it is only a few yards offshore.
The harbour office at Itchenor have some bits picked up over the years from the harbour, including a drift computer designed to strap on a pilot's leg