RAF Bovingdon - 1960s
There is to ths day sufficient flat land to provide for an extension of the runway possibly to the 'standard' 6,000ft.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
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I say XV490 that's a brilliant piece of sleuthing and you were able to tie it in with John Young's diary too. If one checks the dates of the references that Helen Fry quotes in support of Bovingdon's reduced status they cover meetings that took place in the period 26 September 1941 until 5th November 1941. Having read her splendid book I rather wondered how the Americans were able to establish a CCRC at the aerodrome (period 1943 and 1944) which by its very nature provided refresher and conversion training on B-17s and thus plenty of circuits and bumps. But now you have uncovered some of the results of the Noise Testing it begins to make sense. It would be interesting to know the results of the 500ft flyover which I would have thought to have been more noisy than those flown at 2000ft and above. I suppose as the Chesham Road was there (combined with the directive received from the War Office) it might have provided a useful excuse for The Air Ministry not to extend the runway as the aerodrome was initially to be used as an OTU rather than as a heavy bomber station - but as chevvron points out the potential to extend the runway to the standard 6000 ft was there if required.
Much the same went on at Cheddington with a non standard main runway. It was initially built in 1941 by the Air Ministry as a training aerodrome (as Wing aerodrome wasn't fully completed) and occupied by 26 OTU with Ansons and Wellingtons period March-September 1942. On their departure back to Wing reports were submitted claiming that Cheddington was unsuitable for RAF training purposes, the aerodrome was then handed over to the 8th USAAF on September 7th 1942.
Much the same went on at Cheddington with a non standard main runway. It was initially built in 1941 by the Air Ministry as a training aerodrome (as Wing aerodrome wasn't fully completed) and occupied by 26 OTU with Ansons and Wellingtons period March-September 1942. On their departure back to Wing reports were submitted claiming that Cheddington was unsuitable for RAF training purposes, the aerodrome was then handed over to the 8th USAAF on September 7th 1942.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 18th Jan 2024 at 22:32. Reason: Further obs
That figure of £400k is fascinating, a huge sum
of money then, equivalent to £16.7m today using the BofE inflation calculator.
George Smileys fore runners were obviously serious about acoustics!
of money then, equivalent to £16.7m today using the BofE inflation calculator.
George Smileys fore runners were obviously serious about acoustics!
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There is to ths day sufficient flat land to provide for an extension of the runway possibly to the 'standard' 6,000ft.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
Showing Latimer House (upper right) in relation to runway orientation at Bovingdon.
Link to Airfield Charts:
https://konbriefing.com/mad/approach...-airfield.html
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 20th Jan 2024 at 11:17. Reason: Image and link added.
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Quoting chevvron 'I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.' ( Was it the 316 not 336 ? ).
'The Rover Bus Service (J.R.Dell) for a long period ran a service between Hemel Hempstead and Chesham which it shared at one time with London Transport. The route was from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead via Bovingdon and Lye Green and was allocated the route number 316. London Transport found that it was unremunerative and pulled out of the joint operation altogether from 6th May 1964.' Extracted from Amersham News and Views. In retrospect if the runway extension had been made and the Chesham Road closed there was as chevvron mentioned an alternative route for road traffic which would have been via Jasons Hill and Lye Green which it seems London Transport used anyway.
'The Rover Bus Service (J.R.Dell) for a long period ran a service between Hemel Hempstead and Chesham which it shared at one time with London Transport. The route was from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead via Bovingdon and Lye Green and was allocated the route number 316. London Transport found that it was unremunerative and pulled out of the joint operation altogether from 6th May 1964.' Extracted from Amersham News and Views. In retrospect if the runway extension had been made and the Chesham Road closed there was as chevvron mentioned an alternative route for road traffic which would have been via Jasons Hill and Lye Green which it seems London Transport used anyway.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 18th Jan 2024 at 23:22.
Quoting chevvron 'I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.' ( Was it the 316 not 336 ? ).
'The Rover Bus Service (J.R.Dell) for a long period ran a service between Hemel Hempstead and Chesham which it shared at one time with London Transport. The route was from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead via Bovingdon and Lye Green and was allocated the route number 316. London Transport found that it was unremunerative and pulled out of the joint operation altogether from 6th May 1964.' Extracted from Amersham News and Views. In retrospect if the runway extension had been made and the Chesham Road closed there was as chevvron mentioned an alternative route for road traffic which would have been via Jasons Hill and Lye Green which it seems London Transport used anyway.
'The Rover Bus Service (J.R.Dell) for a long period ran a service between Hemel Hempstead and Chesham which it shared at one time with London Transport. The route was from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead via Bovingdon and Lye Green and was allocated the route number 316. London Transport found that it was unremunerative and pulled out of the joint operation altogether from 6th May 1964.' Extracted from Amersham News and Views. In retrospect if the runway extension had been made and the Chesham Road closed there was as chevvron mentioned an alternative route for road traffic which would have been via Jasons Hill and Lye Green which it seems London Transport used anyway.
Something wrong with the date of the 316 finishing. I didn't get a car until '68 and when gliding from Bovingdon from '65 to '67 I'd used the 316 or Rover to get there and that was still operating in '67
Thread Starter
There is to ths day sufficient flat land to provide for an extension of the runway possibly to the 'standard' 6,000ft.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
The 336 bus from Chesham to Hemel Hempstead always turned off the main Chesham - Bovingdon road just past Whelpley Hill and went round the land which could have been used for the extension whereas the Rover bus always continued along the main road past the end of the runway.
Pure speculation on my part but could LT have originally planned for the 336 to be routed clear of the possible extension then when it wasn't used, never reverted to the original route.
I don't know when the Rover bus service was introduced (it ran alternately with the 336) but it was definitely in operation before 1950, my earliest memory of it.
chevvron – Could that bus have used Pocketsdell Lane, in the centre of this 1920s map? Today it's blocked off and presumably 'privatised'.
During and after the war, such a bus would have usefully served the airfield's accommodation sites close to and east of the crossroads near the Three Horseshoes pub.
Pocketsdell Lane (diagonal) with a bit of Bovingdon camp at S/E end road junction. RAF Photo circa 1946 ? (English Heritage).
Doubtless it could have been 'Improved' if the Chesham Road had been closed for a runway extension. As mentioned before some trees would have to go to give safe clearance and facilitate the construction of the perimeter track. What would be interesting to know is whether the land south of the Chesham Road was requisitioned by the Air Ministry prior to aerodrome being built.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 19th Jan 2024 at 22:07. Reason: Adjustments
https://historicengland.org.uk/image...loc226_rs_4041
1944, and most aircraft look like DC3’s. You can also pick out there was nowhere near as much woodland in the vicinity to clear for any runway extensions.
1944, and most aircraft look like DC3’s. You can also pick out there was nowhere near as much woodland in the vicinity to clear for any runway extensions.
Couldn't resist this rather good aerial from 1954 - by then Pocketsdell Lane was perhaps not much more than a byway.
https://historicengland.org.uk/image..._1472_f22_0324
https://historicengland.org.uk/image..._1472_f22_0324
Any advance for spotters...?
15 DC3/C47
2 Meteors
1 Valetta
2 Chipmunks
1 P-Provost/Balliol
1 Dominie
6 Ansons or Brigands/Buckinghams(tailplanes look different from Ansons)
15 DC3/C47
2 Meteors
1 Valetta
2 Chipmunks
1 P-Provost/Balliol
1 Dominie
6 Ansons or Brigands/Buckinghams(tailplanes look different from Ansons)
The Tail Of Farmer Stanbridge's Swill
With the Fanfares of the recent Coronation dying away it was back to essential State Business in The House of Commons.........
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Common...028b2/PigSwill
The Stanbridge Family were at Berry Farm, Whelpley Hill. As stated much of their land was requisitioned for the construction of the aerodrome. I've made a very rough outline of land that belongs to Berry Farm today - it is not at all accurate and it might well be that an even larger acreage of the Standbridge's land was lost for the duration of the aerodrome's operational life.
English Heritage (1944)
Views from Whelpley Hill of RW 09/27 with RW 04/22 beyond. Approx date 2014. (Hellidanno700).
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 23rd Jan 2024 at 13:02. Reason: Images added
Thread Starter
Bovingdon's tower in November 1943, when the Eighth Air Force's 2900th (Provisional) Combat Crew Replacement Center occupied the airfield. The unit was renumbered 11th CCRC the following month.
Seconds 48 to 55; I took off from that almost straight bit of taxiway for the first ever glider launch from Bovingdon on 21 Jun 1965 at about 6 pm with instructor Paul Duncombe in the back seat. The flight in Mk3 WT871 lasted 4 minutes, Paul was there as a check pilot having flown both our aircraft (a Mk3 and a Sedbergh) in from Halton by aerotow earlier that day, I was pilot in charge so although he was first to land there, I was first to take off, fly a full circuit and land .
Last edited by chevvron; 23rd Jan 2024 at 16:26.
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A few months after the aerodrome closed David and I walked along that same stretch of taxiway that you mention and came across some Anson scrappage from which we retrieved an elevator section - it was taken home as a souvenir - goodness know where it is now ...........
92nd Bomb Group - Flying Fortresses at Bovingdon
Nearly all of the photographs are taken at Bovingdon - many by the Press - these may include a few taken by Charles Brown. Most of the shots of aircraft getting airborne were taken at Bovingdon on September 4th 1942. There are a few which are taken elsewhere. For all the images except, one or two, and records I thank The American Air Museum in Britain. Roger Freeman's classic book 'The Mighty Eighth' (1970) has as always been a very great source of information.
The 92nd BG consisted of four Bombardment Squadrons: 325-326-327 and 407. The first B-17s of the 92nd to arrive at Bovingdon on August 18th 1942 were those of 326BS who had flown non-stop Gander to Prestwick, 500 gallons of extra fuel was carried in the bomb bay to achieve this. During the rest of the month the remaining squadrons took the same routing, the last B-17s arriving at Bovingdon on August 28th 1942. These B-17s which were Mark F models were then passed to the 97th BG at Polebrook/Grafton Underwood in exchange for their B-17 Mark E models. Nearly all these B-17Es pictured here had recently flown with the 97th on the first American heavy bomber raid mounted from England when on August 17th 1942 Rouen, Sotteville railway marshalling yards were paid a visit. At Bovingdon the 92nd settled into a programme of combat crew indoctrination and training. This included four combat missions from Bovingdon, the first of which was flown on September 6th 1942 when 14 Fortresses of the 92nd followed those of the 97th to attack the Potez aircraft factory at Meaulte. Two Fortresses were shot down, one from the 97th and one Baby Doll from the 92nd - these were the first Fortress casualties of the European War. On January 4th 1943 the 92nd commenced their move from Bovingdon to Alconbury where their training continued until combat ready, leaving behind elements of 326BS and others to form what became the 11th CCRC.
Both 41-9017 Heidi Ho
41-9020 Phyllis You might remember that Mrs Roosevelt sat in the cockpit of Phyllis (whose tail had been chewed up by Flaming Mayme while en-route to bomb Lille)
Sgt G.F. Murray astride the tail fin of 41-9023 Yankee Doodle
41-9026 Baby Doll - ditched English Channel with loss of all crew, the result of enemy action September 6th 1942
A similar photograph of Baby Doll way back on this thread was accompanied by this notice: The B-17 Flying Fortress (serial number 41-9026 nicknamed "Baby Doll" ) of the 92nd Bomb Group takes off. Passed for publication 5 Sep 1942. Printed caption on reverse of print: Training American Bomber crews in England, Sept 1942. Preparing for the day when the might of the American and British Air Forces will strike together against the heart of Germany are many U.S. Army Air Corps bomber crews with their giant Flying Fortresses. They are completing their training over here at airfields which the American authorities have taken over from the R.A.F. and will soon be ready to go into action alongside their comrades who are already bombing the Germans in occupied territory. This picture taken at an American Bomber training school somewhere in England shows a Flying Fortress taking off from an airfield in England.
Handwritten on reverse: Central Press Photos Ltd.
41-9042 Berlin Sleeper Bovingdon October? 1942
41-9043 Peggy D
41-9045 Stinky newly arrived at Bovingdon
41-9089 Johny Reb Image dated September 4th 1942
41- 9100 Birmingham Blitzkrieg Possibly Bovingdon but probably later at Kimbolton
41-9125 Prowler
41-9148 Boomerang
41-9154 Bat Outa Hell with only one mission marked up probably Polebrook rather than Bovingdon.
41-2578 Butcher Shop (1943)
41-9051 Flaming Mayme
Flew into Skiddaw September 14th 1943 while on a navigation exercise Alconbury to Edinburgh. All on board killed. At the time with 482BG/813BS (A new oboe equipped Pathfinder Squadron). Image Ian D.B. aircrashsites.co.uk with thanks.
The 92nd BG consisted of four Bombardment Squadrons: 325-326-327 and 407. The first B-17s of the 92nd to arrive at Bovingdon on August 18th 1942 were those of 326BS who had flown non-stop Gander to Prestwick, 500 gallons of extra fuel was carried in the bomb bay to achieve this. During the rest of the month the remaining squadrons took the same routing, the last B-17s arriving at Bovingdon on August 28th 1942. These B-17s which were Mark F models were then passed to the 97th BG at Polebrook/Grafton Underwood in exchange for their B-17 Mark E models. Nearly all these B-17Es pictured here had recently flown with the 97th on the first American heavy bomber raid mounted from England when on August 17th 1942 Rouen, Sotteville railway marshalling yards were paid a visit. At Bovingdon the 92nd settled into a programme of combat crew indoctrination and training. This included four combat missions from Bovingdon, the first of which was flown on September 6th 1942 when 14 Fortresses of the 92nd followed those of the 97th to attack the Potez aircraft factory at Meaulte. Two Fortresses were shot down, one from the 97th and one Baby Doll from the 92nd - these were the first Fortress casualties of the European War. On January 4th 1943 the 92nd commenced their move from Bovingdon to Alconbury where their training continued until combat ready, leaving behind elements of 326BS and others to form what became the 11th CCRC.
Both 41-9017 Heidi Ho
41-9020 Phyllis You might remember that Mrs Roosevelt sat in the cockpit of Phyllis (whose tail had been chewed up by Flaming Mayme while en-route to bomb Lille)
Sgt G.F. Murray astride the tail fin of 41-9023 Yankee Doodle
41-9026 Baby Doll - ditched English Channel with loss of all crew, the result of enemy action September 6th 1942
A similar photograph of Baby Doll way back on this thread was accompanied by this notice: The B-17 Flying Fortress (serial number 41-9026 nicknamed "Baby Doll" ) of the 92nd Bomb Group takes off. Passed for publication 5 Sep 1942. Printed caption on reverse of print: Training American Bomber crews in England, Sept 1942. Preparing for the day when the might of the American and British Air Forces will strike together against the heart of Germany are many U.S. Army Air Corps bomber crews with their giant Flying Fortresses. They are completing their training over here at airfields which the American authorities have taken over from the R.A.F. and will soon be ready to go into action alongside their comrades who are already bombing the Germans in occupied territory. This picture taken at an American Bomber training school somewhere in England shows a Flying Fortress taking off from an airfield in England.
Handwritten on reverse: Central Press Photos Ltd.
41-9042 Berlin Sleeper Bovingdon October? 1942
41-9043 Peggy D
41-9045 Stinky newly arrived at Bovingdon
41-9089 Johny Reb Image dated September 4th 1942
41- 9100 Birmingham Blitzkrieg Possibly Bovingdon but probably later at Kimbolton
41-9125 Prowler
41-9148 Boomerang
41-9154 Bat Outa Hell with only one mission marked up probably Polebrook rather than Bovingdon.
41-2578 Butcher Shop (1943)
41-9051 Flaming Mayme
Flew into Skiddaw September 14th 1943 while on a navigation exercise Alconbury to Edinburgh. All on board killed. At the time with 482BG/813BS (A new oboe equipped Pathfinder Squadron). Image Ian D.B. aircrashsites.co.uk with thanks.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 1st Feb 2024 at 09:11. Reason: Corrections
Seconds 48 to 55; I took off from that almost straight bit of taxiway for the first ever glider launch from Bovingdon on 21 Jun 1965 at about 6 pm with instructor Paul Duncombe in the back seat. The flight in Mk3 WT871 lasted 4 minutes, Paul was there as a check pilot having flown both our aircraft (a Mk3 and a Sedbergh) in from Halton by aerotow earlier that day, I was pilot in charge so although he was first to land there, I was first to take off, fly a full circuit and land .
Last edited by chevvron; 31st Jan 2024 at 14:15.