Bristol Britannia details
35 Britannias were built at Belfast.
GANCB TO GANCH
CFCZA TO CFCZD and CFCZW
XL 635 to 640
XL 657 to 660
XM 489 to 491
XM 496 to 498
XM 517 to 520
XN 392
XN 398
XN 404
GANCB TO GANCH
CFCZA TO CFCZD and CFCZW
XL 635 to 640
XL 657 to 660
XM 489 to 491
XM 496 to 498
XM 517 to 520
XN 392
XN 398
XN 404
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Brakedwell, thanks for that, however the Britannia preservation site lists 32:
bristol-britannia.com
The 15 plus 5 partially completed that I originally quoted (and is widely quoted on a range of websites and in a number of publications) has been kicking around for at least a couple of decades and is patently wrong.
Just why there is so much confusion is difficult to see as the type was built well within living memory and was well documented.
bristol-britannia.com
The 15 plus 5 partially completed that I originally quoted (and is widely quoted on a range of websites and in a number of publications) has been kicking around for at least a couple of decades and is patently wrong.
Just why there is so much confusion is difficult to see as the type was built well within living memory and was well documented.
philbky,
That link is inaccurate. The RAF only had 20 C Mk 1 Brits (253) and there were 23 in total including the three Mk 2 (252) Brits. That would account for the discrepancy. I got my info from a book by Charles Woodley titled - Bristol Britannia.
That link is inaccurate. The RAF only had 20 C Mk 1 Brits (253) and there were 23 in total including the three Mk 2 (252) Brits. That would account for the discrepancy. I got my info from a book by Charles Woodley titled - Bristol Britannia.
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I was never happy with the finding that it was the Engineer's fault that the Britannia ended up in the mud at Khormaksar. He wasn't a new boy at all, but a very experienced man. To get into reverse pitch the Engineer had to pull the reversing lever aft then move it slightly to the left and finally slightly forward, that last movement was always stressed during training to be vital because it ensured that the single micro-switch which controlled all 12 solenoids that had to be energised to go into brake dwell was activated. I don't think that a thorough technical inspection could be carried due to operational pressures at the time. Crew error was the easy diagnosis.
I was on 99 when it happened, but can't remember a conclusive answer to what really happened, apart from the newly promoted captain was posted to a ground job.
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Lancman
Very true about pulling back and then into the detent. Cant remember about pushing it forward though.
The PCU on the engine that performed the oil trick to move the prop certainly had 3 solenoids - Fine, (which put on an amber light, Coarse, (no light) and Reverse ( green light) all from memory of course until I can find my Brit electrical manual in the loft - I think.
Very true about pulling back and then into the detent. Cant remember about pushing it forward though.
The PCU on the engine that performed the oil trick to move the prop certainly had 3 solenoids - Fine, (which put on an amber light, Coarse, (no light) and Reverse ( green light) all from memory of course until I can find my Brit electrical manual in the loft - I think.
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This brings back memories of doing paydrops with Terry Chioli when I was about 11 years old - My father was an engineer with Malayan Airways from 1951 to 1956 and Terry took me along in a Cessna 170 and I was allowed to drop the payroll bags - great fun for a kid.
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' evening Falcon, it's fun to split hairs innit! The last bit of movement of the reverse lever to which I referred wasn't so much a movement as it was a confirmation that the lever was firmly at the front end of the quadrant detent, and I'm certain that the Engineer involved was very well aware of that. To save you a trip to the attic, the three solenoids were the fine pitch stop withdrawal solenoid (self explanatory), the override solenoid which delivered full PCU oil pressure to the propellor piston, and the reverse solenoid which reversed the oil flow so that the blades went to the reverse pitch stops and stayed there thus becoming a fixed pitch prop. During a full power reverse landing or aborted take off the Engineer eased the power levers forward as the aircraft slowed to avoid a prop overspeed.
I suppose it could be argued that if that single microswitch was faulty (which fits the symptoms) the crew was at fault in not diagnosing the problem and taking corrective action soon enough. But there was certainly no SOP to cover this eventuality and it would've needed some very quick thinking by both Engineer and Captain to recover the situation. And the usual first reaction when you don't get the expected response to an oft-repeated action is to do it again, but harder. And the aircraft would've accelerated. There but for the grace of God..........
I suppose it could be argued that if that single microswitch was faulty (which fits the symptoms) the crew was at fault in not diagnosing the problem and taking corrective action soon enough. But there was certainly no SOP to cover this eventuality and it would've needed some very quick thinking by both Engineer and Captain to recover the situation. And the usual first reaction when you don't get the expected response to an oft-repeated action is to do it again, but harder. And the aircraft would've accelerated. There but for the grace of God..........
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A former flight engineer with whom I worked and studied, passed away a year ago, and his daughter had a full set of Britt manuals, if any one is interested she may still have them.
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Britannia in the Severn mud
Just another story to add to the pile.
'Twas either late 1953 or early 54, that I was flying a Meteor 4, ex 209 AFS from Weston Zoyland. Bill Pegg had become obliged to force land on the mud flats at Bristol following what I believe was a four engine failure.
I flew over the site and looked down to see a fairly short curving skid line in the mud to where the aircraft sat forlornly.
Must have been some kind of recovery getting her out of the mud.
DennisK
PS. It was the same day that a Meteor flew under the Clifton suspension bridge I seem to recall. I do know that a while later a Vampire pilot presumably ex Valley, attempted the same stunt but mis-judged the climb out and fatally struck the side of the gorge.
'Twas either late 1953 or early 54, that I was flying a Meteor 4, ex 209 AFS from Weston Zoyland. Bill Pegg had become obliged to force land on the mud flats at Bristol following what I believe was a four engine failure.
I flew over the site and looked down to see a fairly short curving skid line in the mud to where the aircraft sat forlornly.
Must have been some kind of recovery getting her out of the mud.
DennisK
PS. It was the same day that a Meteor flew under the Clifton suspension bridge I seem to recall. I do know that a while later a Vampire pilot presumably ex Valley, attempted the same stunt but mis-judged the climb out and fatally struck the side of the gorge.
PS. It was the same day that a Meteor flew under the Clifton suspension bridge I seem to recall. I do know that a while later a Vampire pilot presumably ex Valley, attempted the same stunt but mis-judged the climb out and fatally struck the side of the gorge.
A contemporary press report reported the event as follows:
JET PILOT KILLED IN AVON GORGE - VAMPIRE FLOWN UNDER BRIDGE - UNITS FINAL PARADE
An hour before the Duke of Gloucester was due to take the salute at the disbandment parade of 501 (County of Gloucester) Squadron, Royal Auxiliary Air Force, at Filton, Bristol, yesterday [Sunday, Feb 03, 1957], a Vampire jet fighter attached to the squadron crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge.
The pilot, Flying Officer J. G. Crossley, aged 28, was killed. The suspension bridge spans the Avon Gorge and carries a road 245ft. above the river. The aircraft narrowly missed the bridge, according to eye witnesses, and dived into a steep slope on the Somerset side of the river, near Pill, about two miles from the bridge. The impact caused a slight landslide which almost reached a railway line below. No trains were run on the line, which connects Bristol and Portishead, for several hours. The wreckage of the aircraft caught fire and Bristol and Somerset firemen had to lay a hose for more than a quarter of a mile across the hillside. The body of the pilot was found among the wreckage.
Flying Officer Crossley, a single man, was employed by the flight test department of a subsidiary of the Bristol Aeroplane Company. He lived in Bristol, but his home was at Blackburn.
Mr. William Rodgers, prospective Labour candidate in the forthcoming by-election at Bristol West, said last night that he was admiring the view from the suspension bridge when he heard the scream of jet engines. “The aircraft came in very low” he said. He watched it disappear up the gorge and round a bend. There was a loud explosion and immediately smoke billowed up."
Mr. A. H. Fenn, proprietor of a kiosk on the bridge, said: “There was a strong wind, and as the aircraft continued up the gorge it appeared to roll or bank to the left I imagine the strong cross-wind must have caught him as he was banking."
Squadron Leader M. C. Collings, officer commanding the squadron, said the aircraft was being tested as a reserve for the parade fly-past No route had been laid down for it, but the pilot had not permission to attempt to fly under the bridge.
The Duke of Gloucester, who is honorary Air Commodore of the squadron, knew nothing of the crash until after the parade He was told of it by Air Marshal Sir Thomas Pike, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief. Fighter Command.
ROYAL TRIBUTE
At the parade, the first to be held by a Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadron since the recent disbandment announcement, the Duke said: The reasons for the Government’s decision have been given and we must however difficult it is, loyally accept them. I can only say that I fully understand and sympathize most sincerely with your feelings at this moment. The fame of your squadron and of the rest of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force will, I know, live on long after disbandment.”
He recalled that 501 Squadron went quickly to France when the last war began and one morning “bagged” 18 enemy aircraft before breakfast. Later the squadron played a distinguished part in the Battle of Britain, and it was Sergeant James Lacy, a member of the squadron, who shot down the Heinkel which bombed Buckingham Palace.
The parade included both personnel of 501 Squadron and of 2501 Field Squadron. Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment. A solitary Vampire jet fighter flew past as the Duke took the salute.
PILOT’S FLIGHT WAS “UNAUTHORIZED”
Flying Officer John Greenwood Crossley, aged 28, the pilot who crashed and died in the Avon Gorge after flying a Vampire aircraft under the Clifton suspension bridge last Sunday, was on an unauthorized flight, it was stated at the inquest yesterday at Flax Bourton, near Bristol.
Corporal Robert Charles Troll, of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, stationed with 501 Squadron at Filton, said that at 10.30 a.m. on Sunday he saw Crossley sitting in a Vampire starting the engines [sic]. “He then climbed out, dashed round to the starboard side, disconnected the starting appliance, and then climbed back into the aircraft as if he was in a hurry. ... I made signs to prevent him from taking off because the nose wheel chock was behind the wheel and danger might ensue. He ignored me completely”
The inquest was adjourned until February 26.
An hour before the Duke of Gloucester was due to take the salute at the disbandment parade of 501 (County of Gloucester) Squadron, Royal Auxiliary Air Force, at Filton, Bristol, yesterday [Sunday, Feb 03, 1957], a Vampire jet fighter attached to the squadron crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge.
The pilot, Flying Officer J. G. Crossley, aged 28, was killed. The suspension bridge spans the Avon Gorge and carries a road 245ft. above the river. The aircraft narrowly missed the bridge, according to eye witnesses, and dived into a steep slope on the Somerset side of the river, near Pill, about two miles from the bridge. The impact caused a slight landslide which almost reached a railway line below. No trains were run on the line, which connects Bristol and Portishead, for several hours. The wreckage of the aircraft caught fire and Bristol and Somerset firemen had to lay a hose for more than a quarter of a mile across the hillside. The body of the pilot was found among the wreckage.
Flying Officer Crossley, a single man, was employed by the flight test department of a subsidiary of the Bristol Aeroplane Company. He lived in Bristol, but his home was at Blackburn.
Mr. William Rodgers, prospective Labour candidate in the forthcoming by-election at Bristol West, said last night that he was admiring the view from the suspension bridge when he heard the scream of jet engines. “The aircraft came in very low” he said. He watched it disappear up the gorge and round a bend. There was a loud explosion and immediately smoke billowed up."
Mr. A. H. Fenn, proprietor of a kiosk on the bridge, said: “There was a strong wind, and as the aircraft continued up the gorge it appeared to roll or bank to the left I imagine the strong cross-wind must have caught him as he was banking."
Squadron Leader M. C. Collings, officer commanding the squadron, said the aircraft was being tested as a reserve for the parade fly-past No route had been laid down for it, but the pilot had not permission to attempt to fly under the bridge.
The Duke of Gloucester, who is honorary Air Commodore of the squadron, knew nothing of the crash until after the parade He was told of it by Air Marshal Sir Thomas Pike, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief. Fighter Command.
ROYAL TRIBUTE
At the parade, the first to be held by a Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadron since the recent disbandment announcement, the Duke said: The reasons for the Government’s decision have been given and we must however difficult it is, loyally accept them. I can only say that I fully understand and sympathize most sincerely with your feelings at this moment. The fame of your squadron and of the rest of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force will, I know, live on long after disbandment.”
He recalled that 501 Squadron went quickly to France when the last war began and one morning “bagged” 18 enemy aircraft before breakfast. Later the squadron played a distinguished part in the Battle of Britain, and it was Sergeant James Lacy, a member of the squadron, who shot down the Heinkel which bombed Buckingham Palace.
The parade included both personnel of 501 Squadron and of 2501 Field Squadron. Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment. A solitary Vampire jet fighter flew past as the Duke took the salute.
PILOT’S FLIGHT WAS “UNAUTHORIZED”
Flying Officer John Greenwood Crossley, aged 28, the pilot who crashed and died in the Avon Gorge after flying a Vampire aircraft under the Clifton suspension bridge last Sunday, was on an unauthorized flight, it was stated at the inquest yesterday at Flax Bourton, near Bristol.
Corporal Robert Charles Troll, of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, stationed with 501 Squadron at Filton, said that at 10.30 a.m. on Sunday he saw Crossley sitting in a Vampire starting the engines [sic]. “He then climbed out, dashed round to the starboard side, disconnected the starting appliance, and then climbed back into the aircraft as if he was in a hurry. ... I made signs to prevent him from taking off because the nose wheel chock was behind the wheel and danger might ensue. He ignored me completely”
The inquest was adjourned until February 26.
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Resurrecting an old thread :
AN IRISH flight engineer whose death was prematurely announced 51 years ago has died in Britain, aged 86.
Dubliner Edmund O’Keeffe survived a crash on a test flight of a Bristol Britannia 312 on the morning of Christmas Eve, 1958, but the Evening Press reported that he had died.
Because of the Christmas break, it took his family several days to correct the report and they were inundated with condolences, his sister Maura Greene told The Irish Times : “For nearly a week people thought he was dead.”
His wife, Bernie O’Keeffe, recalled the Evening Press had to be hidden from Mr O’Keeffe’s mother in case it upset her.
Death of flight engineer who 'died' 51 years ago - The Irish Times - Thu, Dec 03, 2009
AN IRISH flight engineer whose death was prematurely announced 51 years ago has died in Britain, aged 86.
Dubliner Edmund O’Keeffe survived a crash on a test flight of a Bristol Britannia 312 on the morning of Christmas Eve, 1958, but the Evening Press reported that he had died.
Because of the Christmas break, it took his family several days to correct the report and they were inundated with condolences, his sister Maura Greene told The Irish Times : “For nearly a week people thought he was dead.”
His wife, Bernie O’Keeffe, recalled the Evening Press had to be hidden from Mr O’Keeffe’s mother in case it upset her.
Death of flight engineer who 'died' 51 years ago - The Irish Times - Thu, Dec 03, 2009
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Khormaksar over-run
I seem to recall a conversation with one of the crew members many years ago in which he explained that everyone had evacuated O.K. and only later was it realised that the engines were all still running with the free-turbine props. stuck firmly in the mud.
Evidentally neither the master crash switch had been activated nor had a sufficient number of the individual inertia crash switche sensed the event.
Now here's a good ARB question - what was the minimum number of crash switches that had to be activated to shut down the engines?
And a question for your average Pub Quiz ... was the Brit. the last UK registered civil aircraft to be fitted with crash switches?
Evidentally neither the master crash switch had been activated nor had a sufficient number of the individual inertia crash switche sensed the event.
Now here's a good ARB question - what was the minimum number of crash switches that had to be activated to shut down the engines?
And a question for your average Pub Quiz ... was the Brit. the last UK registered civil aircraft to be fitted with crash switches?
When the nose landing gear was ripped off it took the batteries with it, removing power from all electric cut-off switches/valves, which remained in their open "engine running" mode.
A similar loss of battery power happened with the Air Europe 757 accident in Funchal.
A similar loss of battery power happened with the Air Europe 757 accident in Funchal.
'Twas either late 1953 or early 54, that I was flying a Meteor 4, ex 209 AFS from Weston Zoyland. Bill Pegg had become obliged to force land on the mud flats at Bristol following what I believe was a four engine failure.
Edit: I have found that the Orion did not fly until 1956, fitted to the 1st prototype Britannia, so this one was all Proteus power
Last edited by kenparry; 8th Dec 2009 at 10:58.
To put it in a nutshell the second prototype G-ALRX force landed on the mud flats on the 4th February 1954. No 3 engine oil temperature rose seven minutes after take-off and the engine was shut down. It was relit once the oil temp had fallen, but following a stall manoeuvre it rose again A pinion in the reduction gear stripped it's teeth, the low pressure turbine ran away and exploded. Pieces pierced the oil tank causing an intense fire which could not be contained. No 4 engine was shut down as a precaution and Bill Pegg decided on an immediate forced landing on the Severn Estuary mudflats.
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I was at RAF Changi 1964-1966 and remember the Britannias of BUA and British Eagle.The wife and I flew from Stansted in Jan 1964 with BUA calling at Istanbul (frozen to death)and Bombay(sweating like pigs),landing at Payar Lebar at 0630 one muggy morning with wife looking for snakes in puddles
We flew back to Heathrow with British Eagle in August 1966 calling at Colombo,Kuwait and Istanbul.
The first photo was taken at Payar Lebar just before we left.
The second was taken at Kuwait.The locals were refuelling the aircraft and saw me with the camera.An RAF Flight Lt who was in charge of the flight
knocked the camera away explaining that the locals might stop the job if I took a photo,that's why I only got half a Britannia.
If I remember correctly we had to wait for the temp to drop before we could take off for Istanbul.
I hope these are of interest,wish I'd taken more photos.
We flew back to Heathrow with British Eagle in August 1966 calling at Colombo,Kuwait and Istanbul.
The first photo was taken at Payar Lebar just before we left.
The second was taken at Kuwait.The locals were refuelling the aircraft and saw me with the camera.An RAF Flight Lt who was in charge of the flight
knocked the camera away explaining that the locals might stop the job if I took a photo,that's why I only got half a Britannia.
If I remember correctly we had to wait for the temp to drop before we could take off for Istanbul.
I hope these are of interest,wish I'd taken more photos.