Heston: wartime crashes and incidents
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Fern Lane Ju88 crash
Looks unlikely that Flt Lt D G M (Doug) Gough was the pilot. As a Flt Sgt at the time, he was one of the original pilots when Number 1426 (Enemy Aircraft) Flight was formed in November 1941 and, like the others, was a well-established and highly experienced RAF test pilot from an MU background - unlikely, I think, to have been a Canadian's role, at that early stage in WWII.
When 1426 Flight disbanded in January 1945, it became the Enemy Aircraft Flight of Central Fighter Establishment (CFE), Tangmere - not at that time, West Raynham - with Flt Lt Gough, as he by then was, as Flight Commander.
"Tangmere", however, is probably the real clue as to why the Ju88 was at Heston, when its home base was West Raynham, Norfolk. "War Prizes" tells us that CFE had moved to West Raynham from Tangmere (with Ford as Tangmere's satellite) in September 1945 but had been forced to leave behind its Me262B-1a/U1 ("Air Minstry 50"; W/Nr 110305), also a (two seater - how like a Meteor NF11 did that look!) FuG 218 radar-equipped night fighter, at Ford awaiting the spares our Ju88 went to Germany to collect. The Me262, ex NJG11 'Red 8', had BTW, originally been flown to the UK from Schleswig where it was captured, by no less a test pilot than Wg Cmdr Roly Falk, he of the Vulcan barrel roll at Farnborough.
Anyway, whereas Heston would have been way off course for West Raynham, a journey from somewhere in the British Zone of Occupation to Ford in West Sussex, would have made Heston its logical UK Customs Port of Entry. My guess therefore is that is what it was probably there for - assuming that Customs had returned there some time after the Allied landings in France.
It's possible that those spares never reached Ford anyway, following the Heston crash, as the Me262 never flew again. Later that month, it was taken to RAF Sealand for storage, then after several storage moves, it went to South Africa in February 1947. Restored to display condition, it has been on show in the South African National Museum of Military History, Johannesburg, since 1972 - so spare a thought for Fern Lane, anyone who sees it there!
I think that just leaves pilot name and cause of accident to uncover for the Ju88. Still an RAF unit records job, at National Archives, I guess. I have some old family records to check out there but not until they are released in November. Is anyone going to be there beforehand?
When 1426 Flight disbanded in January 1945, it became the Enemy Aircraft Flight of Central Fighter Establishment (CFE), Tangmere - not at that time, West Raynham - with Flt Lt Gough, as he by then was, as Flight Commander.
"Tangmere", however, is probably the real clue as to why the Ju88 was at Heston, when its home base was West Raynham, Norfolk. "War Prizes" tells us that CFE had moved to West Raynham from Tangmere (with Ford as Tangmere's satellite) in September 1945 but had been forced to leave behind its Me262B-1a/U1 ("Air Minstry 50"; W/Nr 110305), also a (two seater - how like a Meteor NF11 did that look!) FuG 218 radar-equipped night fighter, at Ford awaiting the spares our Ju88 went to Germany to collect. The Me262, ex NJG11 'Red 8', had BTW, originally been flown to the UK from Schleswig where it was captured, by no less a test pilot than Wg Cmdr Roly Falk, he of the Vulcan barrel roll at Farnborough.
Anyway, whereas Heston would have been way off course for West Raynham, a journey from somewhere in the British Zone of Occupation to Ford in West Sussex, would have made Heston its logical UK Customs Port of Entry. My guess therefore is that is what it was probably there for - assuming that Customs had returned there some time after the Allied landings in France.
It's possible that those spares never reached Ford anyway, following the Heston crash, as the Me262 never flew again. Later that month, it was taken to RAF Sealand for storage, then after several storage moves, it went to South Africa in February 1947. Restored to display condition, it has been on show in the South African National Museum of Military History, Johannesburg, since 1972 - so spare a thought for Fern Lane, anyone who sees it there!
I think that just leaves pilot name and cause of accident to uncover for the Ju88. Still an RAF unit records job, at National Archives, I guess. I have some old family records to check out there but not until they are released in November. Is anyone going to be there beforehand?
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Tempest(?) crash, Winchester Avenue, Heston
In class at Norwood Green Junior School, one day some time in the late 40's (I left the school in 1949), we all heard a fast descending high powered aircraft, apparently on full power - followed by silence and an ominous pall of dense black smoke rising from somewhere over towards Heston Church. I heard that it was a Tempest (on test from Langley?) which had failed to recover from a spin and crashed in the garden of a house in Winchester Avenue, killing the pilot. If attempting post-spin recovery, and as we heard it probably at full power, it was presumably attempting to regain speed and full flying control in order to check descent and climb away - but too late. Poor darned pilot; imagine trying to achieve that in such a heavy machine as a Tempest!
In the Yahoo! Heston Airport Group, it has been suggested that it might have been a Firefly which was thought to have crashed somewhere in the area. It has been confirmed anyway that long-term Winchester Avenue residents were still, in the 1970's, talking about a "Spitfire" crash at the end of the road. My own memory of local information, or misinformation, at the time, says "Tempest" but I could be wrong.
Anybody have more information?
In the Yahoo! Heston Airport Group, it has been suggested that it might have been a Firefly which was thought to have crashed somewhere in the area. It has been confirmed anyway that long-term Winchester Avenue residents were still, in the 1970's, talking about a "Spitfire" crash at the end of the road. My own memory of local information, or misinformation, at the time, says "Tempest" but I could be wrong.
Anybody have more information?
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AWF118
You were interested in comparing the 2-seater Me-262 to the Meteor NF-11.
I was fortunate in visiting the National War Museum at Saxonwold (Johannesburg) in 1992 to see AirMin 50 but since my photos need scanning again it'll be simpler to provide a link to another website here:
Me 262 B-1a/U1
It was impossible to get a proper side view shot of it where it was displayed, as is obvious from the photos, but I do have one taken from Carel Birkby's book on the Saxonwold aircraft 'Dancing the Skies' if you are interested. I guess I shouldn't post it here for copyright reasons.
brgds
Alan
You were interested in comparing the 2-seater Me-262 to the Meteor NF-11.
I was fortunate in visiting the National War Museum at Saxonwold (Johannesburg) in 1992 to see AirMin 50 but since my photos need scanning again it'll be simpler to provide a link to another website here:
Me 262 B-1a/U1
It was impossible to get a proper side view shot of it where it was displayed, as is obvious from the photos, but I do have one taken from Carel Birkby's book on the Saxonwold aircraft 'Dancing the Skies' if you are interested. I guess I shouldn't post it here for copyright reasons.
brgds
Alan
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Ju88 crash, Fern Lane/Me262 waiting for spares at Ford
Hello atb1943
Now we're really motoring
A post from a subscriber in Germany, who has been to South Africa, to see the Me262 apparently responsible for the Ju88 being at Heston in the first place!
My rhetorical question "...how like a Meteor NF11 did that look!", was really just a throw away line with particular reference to the Me262's heavily framed two-in-line cockpit canopy. From the low angle of the "War Prizes" (page 66) monochrome photo of Air Min 50, the Me262 B-1a/U1's "office windows" were very reminiscent (from memory, when I wrote - but this confirms it: Meteor NF11 photo - Gareth Horne photos at pbase.com) of an NF11's "greenhouse".
Otherwise, similarities are, of course, few. Performance of the Me262 - with its swept wings, underslung engines, triangular section fuselage and even longer nose, to visually differentiate it - was in some respects superior, although not in those of reliability or general handling. According to "Winkle" Brown, based on tests at RAE Farnborough, the Me262 had a Mach limit of 0.86 against the Meteor Mark One's 0.82 - although, somewhat incredibly, Spitfires could be dived to Mach 0.88 by very brave pilots, who had hopefully written their wills.
The Saxonwold information, for which thanks, adds new thoughts. As Air Min 50 had been fitted with some British instrumentation, were original German instruments the spares Air Min 32 had been to Germany for? If so, and if fitted instead with British instruments, did the Messerschmidt fly at all from Ford, either before or after CFE's September 1945 departure to West Raynham? I confess that I assumed it had never flown again after the Ju88 crash, based on the statement on page 87 of "War Prizes" that its "..active life ceased after the CFE moved to West Raynham in September 1945.." - but, on reflection, it might have been test flown again at Ford, using either British instruments, or the German ones, then perhaps grounded, as "snagged" and marked for disposal. However, the "War Prizes" page 66 photograph shows it languishing at Ford on 14 June 1946, surrounded by long grass, so it was clearly not flying by that date.
That has generated some more thoughts. Based on my own RAF experience, wherever possible a technician NCO would accompany a pilot collecting aircraft spares, to ensure correct receipt and handling. A CFE technician would probably also have been responsible to fit and/or oversee the installation of the Me262's spare parts. Also, who was going to test fly the Me262, the Ju88 pilot or another, Me262-experienced, CFE pilot? If the latter, had the Ju88 called at West Raynham, before landing for Customs clearance or whatever at Heston - delivering schnapps and some nice Franconian wine to the West Raynham officers' mess, and picking up another pilot?
I'll ask "norimacie", the Yahoo! Heston Airport Group subscriber (the baby who was asleep in the Fern Lane house at the time of the crash!) if he ever heard whether other crew and/or passengers were on board the Ju88?
Also, we don't know the Ju88's point of departure in Germany, to the UK, nor where the spares were collected from. My guess is Schleswig, as that's where Air Min 50 and a number of other Me262's were captured - but was that their operating base, where spares might still have been located, or just a Luftwaffe assembly point, away from the Soviets, at the end of hostilities? Any info, atb1943?
Final point: I had misread the Me262's history relating to its removal from Ford, and transfer to Saxonwold. It was removed from Ford by 71 MU, Bicester in October 1946, transported to 47 MU Sealand, packed there and shipped to Cape Town from Birkenhead via the SS Clan McCree, on 23 February 1947 - arriving Capetown 17 March 1947. SAAF Central Flying School, Dunottar, then held it until late 1971, when it moved to No. 15 Air Depot, Snake Valley for restoration to display standard, moving to Saxonwold in 1972.
Meanwhile, what was left of the Fern Lane Ju88 presumably went straight to the 71 MU Bicester scrap heap in 1945 - anybody know for sure?
Now we're really motoring
A post from a subscriber in Germany, who has been to South Africa, to see the Me262 apparently responsible for the Ju88 being at Heston in the first place!My rhetorical question "...how like a Meteor NF11 did that look!", was really just a throw away line with particular reference to the Me262's heavily framed two-in-line cockpit canopy. From the low angle of the "War Prizes" (page 66) monochrome photo of Air Min 50, the Me262 B-1a/U1's "office windows" were very reminiscent (from memory, when I wrote - but this confirms it: Meteor NF11 photo - Gareth Horne photos at pbase.com) of an NF11's "greenhouse".
Otherwise, similarities are, of course, few. Performance of the Me262 - with its swept wings, underslung engines, triangular section fuselage and even longer nose, to visually differentiate it - was in some respects superior, although not in those of reliability or general handling. According to "Winkle" Brown, based on tests at RAE Farnborough, the Me262 had a Mach limit of 0.86 against the Meteor Mark One's 0.82 - although, somewhat incredibly, Spitfires could be dived to Mach 0.88 by very brave pilots, who had hopefully written their wills.
The Saxonwold information, for which thanks, adds new thoughts. As Air Min 50 had been fitted with some British instrumentation, were original German instruments the spares Air Min 32 had been to Germany for? If so, and if fitted instead with British instruments, did the Messerschmidt fly at all from Ford, either before or after CFE's September 1945 departure to West Raynham? I confess that I assumed it had never flown again after the Ju88 crash, based on the statement on page 87 of "War Prizes" that its "..active life ceased after the CFE moved to West Raynham in September 1945.." - but, on reflection, it might have been test flown again at Ford, using either British instruments, or the German ones, then perhaps grounded, as "snagged" and marked for disposal. However, the "War Prizes" page 66 photograph shows it languishing at Ford on 14 June 1946, surrounded by long grass, so it was clearly not flying by that date.
That has generated some more thoughts. Based on my own RAF experience, wherever possible a technician NCO would accompany a pilot collecting aircraft spares, to ensure correct receipt and handling. A CFE technician would probably also have been responsible to fit and/or oversee the installation of the Me262's spare parts. Also, who was going to test fly the Me262, the Ju88 pilot or another, Me262-experienced, CFE pilot? If the latter, had the Ju88 called at West Raynham, before landing for Customs clearance or whatever at Heston - delivering schnapps and some nice Franconian wine to the West Raynham officers' mess, and picking up another pilot?
I'll ask "norimacie", the Yahoo! Heston Airport Group subscriber (the baby who was asleep in the Fern Lane house at the time of the crash!) if he ever heard whether other crew and/or passengers were on board the Ju88?
Also, we don't know the Ju88's point of departure in Germany, to the UK, nor where the spares were collected from. My guess is Schleswig, as that's where Air Min 50 and a number of other Me262's were captured - but was that their operating base, where spares might still have been located, or just a Luftwaffe assembly point, away from the Soviets, at the end of hostilities? Any info, atb1943?
Final point: I had misread the Me262's history relating to its removal from Ford, and transfer to Saxonwold. It was removed from Ford by 71 MU, Bicester in October 1946, transported to 47 MU Sealand, packed there and shipped to Cape Town from Birkenhead via the SS Clan McCree, on 23 February 1947 - arriving Capetown 17 March 1947. SAAF Central Flying School, Dunottar, then held it until late 1971, when it moved to No. 15 Air Depot, Snake Valley for restoration to display standard, moving to Saxonwold in 1972.
Meanwhile, what was left of the Fern Lane Ju88 presumably went straight to the 71 MU Bicester scrap heap in 1945 - anybody know for sure?
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Hallo again AWF118,
Sorry, have had a bit of night duty to cope with recently.
To set the record straight, I was in SA to attend 'Aviation Africa', that year at Jan Smuts, have a few meetings with customers outside the show, visit the CAA in Pretoria and return.
One of my hosts, the one taking me to Pretoria, hearing that I was complaining about not having seen one wild animal invited me to the Zoo, knowing full well that the War Museum was right next door! I had no idea. That's how I got to photograph those wonderful exhibits both inside and out.
On the way to the Capital, mein host stops at a roadside shanty, seems to have bought some exotic fruits, then drives offroad to a high chainlink fence with padlocked gate. Lo and behold he has a key! Fastening gate carefully behind us we drive about half a mile, past a Maule aircraft in a lean-to (no strip visible), we came to a farm. There we found almost every conceivable animal you could wish to see! Watch out for the rhino - he'll mash your fingers at the fence if you let him...watch that little beestie, he'll jab you through the fence, and so on. But then out came the fruits - he'd bought flippin' carrots, for three baby elephants that had soon emptied my pockets of most everything, and followed me everywhere to get more. Very sweet! It was a farm that raised and trained animals for film use.
I didn't half smell funny at the CAA, wouldn't have missed it for the world though.
Next day a Cessna 150 flight from Lanseria to Pretoria, popping in to Swartkops (it was a Sunday, he is a reserve officer)....no r/t, just land. Looked over all the museum pieces, including Shackleton, MiG-21, Sabre, Canberra, Buccaneer, various Dassault jets...in those wonderful old 1919-vintage hangars, a Jumo engine (plenty more of those, still unpacked, I was told). Taxied out past stored Puma helicopters, still active DC-3s and DC-4s, chaps kicking a ball around didn't bat an eyelid. Back via the Dam, Johannesburg, Soweto. Braai in the evening, floodlit cricket.
Somehow squeezed in a Citation trip down to Cape Town too.
That's what I call air show attendance!
But what happened to the Ju-88 the South Africans had??
brgds
Alan
p.s. my 1934 Air Pilot shows Heston Landing Area as
N. - S. 700 yards
N.E. - S.W 700 yards
E. - W. 575 yards
S.E. - N.W. 650 yards
Sorry, have had a bit of night duty to cope with recently.
To set the record straight, I was in SA to attend 'Aviation Africa', that year at Jan Smuts, have a few meetings with customers outside the show, visit the CAA in Pretoria and return.
One of my hosts, the one taking me to Pretoria, hearing that I was complaining about not having seen one wild animal invited me to the Zoo, knowing full well that the War Museum was right next door! I had no idea. That's how I got to photograph those wonderful exhibits both inside and out.
On the way to the Capital, mein host stops at a roadside shanty, seems to have bought some exotic fruits, then drives offroad to a high chainlink fence with padlocked gate. Lo and behold he has a key! Fastening gate carefully behind us we drive about half a mile, past a Maule aircraft in a lean-to (no strip visible), we came to a farm. There we found almost every conceivable animal you could wish to see! Watch out for the rhino - he'll mash your fingers at the fence if you let him...watch that little beestie, he'll jab you through the fence, and so on. But then out came the fruits - he'd bought flippin' carrots, for three baby elephants that had soon emptied my pockets of most everything, and followed me everywhere to get more. Very sweet! It was a farm that raised and trained animals for film use.
I didn't half smell funny at the CAA, wouldn't have missed it for the world though.
Next day a Cessna 150 flight from Lanseria to Pretoria, popping in to Swartkops (it was a Sunday, he is a reserve officer)....no r/t, just land. Looked over all the museum pieces, including Shackleton, MiG-21, Sabre, Canberra, Buccaneer, various Dassault jets...in those wonderful old 1919-vintage hangars, a Jumo engine (plenty more of those, still unpacked, I was told). Taxied out past stored Puma helicopters, still active DC-3s and DC-4s, chaps kicking a ball around didn't bat an eyelid. Back via the Dam, Johannesburg, Soweto. Braai in the evening, floodlit cricket.
Somehow squeezed in a Citation trip down to Cape Town too.
That's what I call air show attendance!
But what happened to the Ju-88 the South Africans had??
brgds
Alan
p.s. my 1934 Air Pilot shows Heston Landing Area as
N. - S. 700 yards
N.E. - S.W 700 yards
E. - W. 575 yards
S.E. - N.W. 650 yards
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Heston 'Tempest' crash
My candidate for the Winchester Avenue crash , a Fairey Firefly, has been identified by Lee Howard (FAA specialist via Air-Britain abix forum) as Firefly Z2051 which 'suffered engine failure on take-off, turned over and dived in 1mile East of Heston Airfield on 12 September 1945,Sub Lt H Walsh of 799 Sqdn being killed'. I still need to find my published source to confirm the crash site, and I suppose we need to check what other fighter types (Tempests? Spitfires?)crashed in West Middlesex in the early post-war period.
Re the airfield size, the 1934 figures (possibly the original 1927 dimensions) were enough for Roscoe Turner's Boeing 247 to visit prior to the Mildenhall -Melbourne race....there's a pic (in a book!).I think the airfield was expanded in 2 stages the 2nd (1938?) requiring the closure of a footpath from Berkeley School field towards the canal bridge leading to Regina Rd
Re the airfield size, the 1934 figures (possibly the original 1927 dimensions) were enough for Roscoe Turner's Boeing 247 to visit prior to the Mildenhall -Melbourne race....there's a pic (in a book!).I think the airfield was expanded in 2 stages the 2nd (1938?) requiring the closure of a footpath from Berkeley School field towards the canal bridge leading to Regina Rd
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Heston 'Tempest' crash
Early autumn 1945 was locally very eventful then, what with the Ju88 crash a month later, the Fleet Air Arm show including, as far as I know, Heston's first, perhaps only, jet (Geoffrey de Havilland in the Vampire), and now that Firefly.
Whether the Firefly was the crash I referred to earlier though, I can only guess at this stage - if it was, then my recollection of a screaming high powered attempted dive recovery is wrong, and time has perhaps mixed up two different events. My ageing memory still says "Tempest" but I freely admit that could be wrong - having been (nearly) right on the Ju88 though, it would be nice to know whether I've got this one wrong or not.
Any crash of whatever aircraft in Winchester Avenue (which was certainly the location of the crash I remembered) would have only been between 1200 and a maximum of 2000 feet from the airfield boundary, though. If my memory has the correct Winchester Avenue back garden lodged in it, it was only 1200 feet, i.e., well under 1/4 mile, out from the boundary - and, although to the East of the airfield, also about 800 feet south of the extended straight out departure line.
On the other hand, a departing Firefly crashed there after engine failure would suggest a low speed starboard turning stall, attempting to swing back to pancake on Heston Park, the only open ground just east of the airfield. If so, he very nearly made it, poor chap. I saw an ATC glider winch launched out of the park one day, after it had landed short there.
So, don't really know if the Firefly is the answer I'm afraid, and won't unless somebody comes up with either a Tempest crash record, or the exact address of the Firefly crash.
Whether the Firefly was the crash I referred to earlier though, I can only guess at this stage - if it was, then my recollection of a screaming high powered attempted dive recovery is wrong, and time has perhaps mixed up two different events. My ageing memory still says "Tempest" but I freely admit that could be wrong - having been (nearly) right on the Ju88 though, it would be nice to know whether I've got this one wrong or not.
Any crash of whatever aircraft in Winchester Avenue (which was certainly the location of the crash I remembered) would have only been between 1200 and a maximum of 2000 feet from the airfield boundary, though. If my memory has the correct Winchester Avenue back garden lodged in it, it was only 1200 feet, i.e., well under 1/4 mile, out from the boundary - and, although to the East of the airfield, also about 800 feet south of the extended straight out departure line.
On the other hand, a departing Firefly crashed there after engine failure would suggest a low speed starboard turning stall, attempting to swing back to pancake on Heston Park, the only open ground just east of the airfield. If so, he very nearly made it, poor chap. I saw an ATC glider winch launched out of the park one day, after it had landed short there.
So, don't really know if the Firefly is the answer I'm afraid, and won't unless somebody comes up with either a Tempest crash record, or the exact address of the Firefly crash.
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At the risk of duplicating from a previous Heston thread, I found this wonderful site whilst googling: Collect Air | Woodason Aircraft Models History
On the subject of the Fleet Air Arm show, and quoting entirely from memory, but which I can still get corroborated....tickets were required for the show and were duly printed by Supermarine. They then had to be quickly transported to Heston, and Tommy Thompson was tasked with getting them there. He took a Seafire, but had nowhere to put them but on his seat, and thus the trip was made with his sitting on them with his head slightly above the open canopy!
I have to write to him anyway and will have it confirmed (or not), but it's still a nice story!
brgds
Alan
On the subject of the Fleet Air Arm show, and quoting entirely from memory, but which I can still get corroborated....tickets were required for the show and were duly printed by Supermarine. They then had to be quickly transported to Heston, and Tommy Thompson was tasked with getting them there. He took a Seafire, but had nowhere to put them but on his seat, and thus the trip was made with his sitting on them with his head slightly above the open canopy!
I have to write to him anyway and will have it confirmed (or not), but it's still a nice story!
brgds
Alan
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I called Tommy Thompson today on the occasion of his 90th (!) birthday 
and remembered to ask him about the tickets. They were in fact for the German aircraft exhibition at Farnborough that year, though he did deliver them to a chap at Heston, flying from Exeter via Yeovil.
He also mentioned that he chatted to 'Winkle' Brown earlier this year at the Rolls-Royce aircrew luncheon held annually at Popham, plus a number of his ex-de Havilland Hatfield colleagues, and a charming young lady who flies airliners and a de Havilland Moth.
Good Health Tommy!
brgds
Alan
and remembered to ask him about the tickets. They were in fact for the German aircraft exhibition at Farnborough that year, though he did deliver them to a chap at Heston, flying from Exeter via Yeovil. He also mentioned that he chatted to 'Winkle' Brown earlier this year at the Rolls-Royce aircrew luncheon held annually at Popham, plus a number of his ex-de Havilland Hatfield colleagues, and a charming young lady who flies airliners and a de Havilland Moth.
Good Health Tommy!
brgds
Alan
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I had lunch with Suzanne Chapman's daughter (my cousin) yesterday. She died only last year.
John Ashton whom she married after the war was an Hurricane and Spitfire pilot in the battle of France and later stages of tge B of B.
John Ashton whom she married after the war was an Hurricane and Spitfire pilot in the battle of France and later stages of tge B of B.
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Suzanne Ashton. Nee: Chapman
With regard to your comment concerning Suzanne Ashton.
I responded to your post a few days ago but it does not seem to have been successful.
Suzanne Ashton died last year.
John Ashton was my Uncle and I belive he and Suzanne met up at the King's Cup air Races. I met her once when she and John were living in the Westlands, outside Newcastle under Lyme.
After a brief marriage she moved to Swansea but I believe she took up instructing again at Exeter.
She had a daughter, Pita, with whom I had lunch in London the other day.
I responded to your post a few days ago but it does not seem to have been successful.
Suzanne Ashton died last year.
John Ashton was my Uncle and I belive he and Suzanne met up at the King's Cup air Races. I met her once when she and John were living in the Westlands, outside Newcastle under Lyme.
After a brief marriage she moved to Swansea but I believe she took up instructing again at Exeter.
She had a daughter, Pita, with whom I had lunch in London the other day.
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Suzanne Ashton. Nee: Chapman
Hello morrowmm,
Abject apologies for my long delay responding to your messages, due to illness, then my wife's illness - both concurrently with a close family member's (continuing) disappearance abroad. As a result, I've had an ever-increasing "pended emails" folder, which I'm only now making some inroads into.
In this case, I've also been prompted to extract a digit by an enquiry this morning, (via my sister in Oz!) from an old Isleworth Grammar friend (old now being the operative word), and fellow Island Air Services cohort member, regarding another IAS (non-ATA) pilot - so I've also dug out the info I had on Suzanne to send to him. In 2010 my wife and I had called in at Maidenhead Heritage Centre, where the ATA archives are kept, to see if they knew what had become of Suzanne, post-IAS. John Webster there most kindly dug around and sent me a potted history a few days later. If you want to send me a private message with an email address, I'll happily forward that to you, including a 1944 photo of Suzanne as a pilot in training.
BTW, I already had good information on what subsequently befell Monique Agazarian, the other ATA pilot and part-owner of IAS, after I knew them there - but until 2010 I was left wondering about Suzanne. Thank you for what you have added, although I'm sorry to hear that she died a few years ago. I think the Maidenhead Heritage Centre is probably already aware, as they keep close contact with remaining ATA people but I'll make sure by letting John know, anyway.
Similarly, I imagine that her daughter, your cousin, already has any info that I've got - but you never know. Tell her please, that I greatly admired Suzanne, who could put a Rapide down on the Heathrow concrete smooth as silk. Knew her quite well, as we often shared a bus home at the pleasure flying day's end - to Hampton where she lived, and where I changed onto a bus to Ashford.
Apologies again, and best wishes.
Abject apologies for my long delay responding to your messages, due to illness, then my wife's illness - both concurrently with a close family member's (continuing) disappearance abroad. As a result, I've had an ever-increasing "pended emails" folder, which I'm only now making some inroads into.
In this case, I've also been prompted to extract a digit by an enquiry this morning, (via my sister in Oz!) from an old Isleworth Grammar friend (old now being the operative word), and fellow Island Air Services cohort member, regarding another IAS (non-ATA) pilot - so I've also dug out the info I had on Suzanne to send to him. In 2010 my wife and I had called in at Maidenhead Heritage Centre, where the ATA archives are kept, to see if they knew what had become of Suzanne, post-IAS. John Webster there most kindly dug around and sent me a potted history a few days later. If you want to send me a private message with an email address, I'll happily forward that to you, including a 1944 photo of Suzanne as a pilot in training.
BTW, I already had good information on what subsequently befell Monique Agazarian, the other ATA pilot and part-owner of IAS, after I knew them there - but until 2010 I was left wondering about Suzanne. Thank you for what you have added, although I'm sorry to hear that she died a few years ago. I think the Maidenhead Heritage Centre is probably already aware, as they keep close contact with remaining ATA people but I'll make sure by letting John know, anyway.
Similarly, I imagine that her daughter, your cousin, already has any info that I've got - but you never know. Tell her please, that I greatly admired Suzanne, who could put a Rapide down on the Heathrow concrete smooth as silk. Knew her quite well, as we often shared a bus home at the pleasure flying day's end - to Hampton where she lived, and where I changed onto a bus to Ashford.
Apologies again, and best wishes.
Anyone know if the ATA Heritage Centre covers groundcrew. I have a friend who started with them as a 15/16 year old trainee. He is now 89 and I keep in touch and we talk things aviation. If anything useful I might be able to remind him of friends and times past
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ATA Ground Crew
Yes, we at the Maidenhead Heritage Centre are more than interested in all who served in ATA. Amongst the ground crew there were more than two dozen teenage Air Training Corps Cadets on the payroll and we are in touch with many surviving veterans, both air and ground crew.
I would be only too pleased to hear from/about your friend.
I would be only too pleased to hear from/about your friend.
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Hullo,
By chance I happened on your response to my cousin Martin Morrow by googling my mother's name (Suzanne Chapman and Suzanne Ashton). I was touched by your comment on her Rapide landing abilities - she would have been delighted. I haven't heard from Martin, so didn't get your message, but would be very interested to hear about your connection with my mother.
kind regards
Pita
By chance I happened on your response to my cousin Martin Morrow by googling my mother's name (Suzanne Chapman and Suzanne Ashton). I was touched by your comment on her Rapide landing abilities - she would have been delighted. I haven't heard from Martin, so didn't get your message, but would be very interested to hear about your connection with my mother.
kind regards
Pita
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Gaston Riggs P-51 Mustang crash Heston 26Feb1945
A wreath will be laid at noon today at the SOUTHEASTERN end of the M4 bridge North Hyde Lane/ Heston Grange Lane/Heston Park Entrance (northeast end unsuitable)
AISMHC18 - guy called Peter Charles - after ATA mechanic (I think he started at 16) 10,000 hours crops spraying in Tigers, Austers, Pawnees, etc, al round the world. In fact I am seeing him tomorrow afternoon. Will ask if he has anything I can photograph
W
W
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Heston: Wartime crashes and incidents...Gaston Riggs
Gaston Riggs headstone in Houston
Wreath, Heston, 26Feb2015, with Keith (ex British Army, Barbados Army and Police), who lives overlooking the crash site
Wreath, Heston, 26Feb2015, with Keith (ex British Army, Barbados Army and Police), who lives overlooking the crash site
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Post #56 above - no title
Hello Pita,
Almost 2 years on I'm afraid, so please accept my apologies. Illness, a house move from the north back to the south of England, and finally a vicious computer hack(!!) intervened, during which time I lost my forum login details - and your posting.
Just had time at last to find my way back into the forum, and then find your posting. Now that I've done that, give me a day or two please to squeeze my old brain a bit, and I'll then send you a forum Private Message with anything else I can tell you.
Best wishes, meanwhile, Suzanne's daughter.
Almost 2 years on I'm afraid, so please accept my apologies. Illness, a house move from the north back to the south of England, and finally a vicious computer hack(!!) intervened, during which time I lost my forum login details - and your posting.
Just had time at last to find my way back into the forum, and then find your posting. Now that I've done that, give me a day or two please to squeeze my old brain a bit, and I'll then send you a forum Private Message with anything else I can tell you.
Best wishes, meanwhile, Suzanne's daughter.