How did Heathrow used to look ?
Re 23/05, I did see 23 in use often during my visits to the Queen's Building in the '70s/'80s but never 05.
Odd memory just popped up of a BA 747 landing on 23 (only widebody I can recall seeing doing so) and a large sheet of flame emanating briefly from No 4 while reverse thrust was in action.
Odd memory just popped up of a BA 747 landing on 23 (only widebody I can recall seeing doing so) and a large sheet of flame emanating briefly from No 4 while reverse thrust was in action.
I seem to recall in the '90s that 23 was available for landing if winds were SW above 20kts or so, but 1 or 2 hours notice was required to clear the T4 remote stands.
Conditions favouring the use of the comparatively-short Rwy 23 for landing by large a/c in the 1990s would obviously involve a limiting crosswind component on the westerly runways. That could be a southerly W/V gusting over about 30 kt, but more commonly a SSW, with gusts from the SW. In the case of a south-westerly, the gusts tend to come from the WSW, which reduces the advantage of Rwy 23. Similarly, in the days when Rwy 05 was still available, the most benefit over the easterly runways would have been when the W/V was between north and NNE.
Today, the absence in South-East England of any large runway catering for a southerly or northerly gale is less than ideal, although Stansted sometimes does the job. In that respect, Heathrow has lost the plot. Whereas the Dutch have Schiphol...
Interestingly, in a strong SW wind, Heathrow disregards the runway alternation programme and uses 27L for all landings, because the BA 747 hangars can cause unpredictable gusts on the 27R final approach.
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I landed on 05 at 1610 on 19 Nov 1991 after 20 minutes in the hold and an SRA from around the Southampton area. Not sure if it was used after that but as mentioned above, was not abandoned until 1993.
Dave,
Yes, in a strong sou'wester 27R is a bit like Rwy 27/26 at Gatwick used to be before they removed the 1960s hangars from the south side of the landing threshold. Sporting...
I remember one winters evening about 1985 a trident choosing to use 05 for landing and causing some delays. Apparently the captain wished to be flying the last trident to land on 05.
Lived in or around Harrow over various periods between 1980 and 1986, part of it on Bessborough Rd looking towards Harrow Hill. If the landing runway was 23 we'd get a constant procession of airliners, including widebodies and Concordes, passing our front window.
Later, using the commuter service from Euston, would be aware of odd days when there was a stream of airliners crossing the line in Kenton area. Stopped by mid nineties IIRC.
Later, using the commuter service from Euston, would be aware of odd days when there was a stream of airliners crossing the line in Kenton area. Stopped by mid nineties IIRC.
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Back in November 1969 and never having departed from that runway before, I was happily surprised to note our 707 was taxying out for take-off from 23L, giving me some new views during our take-off roll. Then, very soon afterwards, despite my previous LHR flights, it was another new experience to see the ''LH'' beacon flashing past beneath us.
Incidentally, they say these things come in threes - later, all of us passengers (except one!) and also the crew, were extremely surprised to learn we would actually be en-route to Havana!
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Incidentally, they say these things come in threes - later, all of us passengers (except one!) and also the crew, were extremely surprised to learn we would actually be en-route to Havana!
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Last edited by seafire6b; 28th Jul 2018 at 13:15. Reason: clarity
Never landed on 23 but returning from our honeymoon in 1977 England was gripped in some bitter weather and a strong NE wind meant our T3 from faro landed on 05. We seemed to fly right over head LHR at maybe 6000 ft turning left to the north of the airport then a long downwind leg to the west before turning back towards final approach . I think from my airband radio days they used a radar controller based approach with constant changes in heading of a few degrees and advice as to above or below glideslope not ILS as 05 didnt have it ( the wooden approach light poles were a give away that 05 was the Cinderella of LHRs runways )
Of course stretching my memory back further I can remember lots of take offs and landings on the parallel 23R/05L mostly prop stuff and a vague recollection of a BA DC3 Dakota landing over Bedfont on the long long gone Se-NW runway that i think went when T3 was built.
Of course stretching my memory back further I can remember lots of take offs and landings on the parallel 23R/05L mostly prop stuff and a vague recollection of a BA DC3 Dakota landing over Bedfont on the long long gone Se-NW runway that i think went when T3 was built.
Paxing All Over The World
Only time I was on 23 was a landing in a Manx Viscount from IOM! As they were phased out in 1988, this was a couple of years before.
A 2nm termination range SRA was the only way of making an instrument approach to runway 05R although I stand to be corrected.
The controller would pass advisory heights or altitudes at 1nm intervals rather than saying above or below the glidepath.
Wooden approach light poles were in common use at many airfields; they had to be 'frangible' ie would collapse easily if accidentally touched by an aircraft.
The controller would pass advisory heights or altitudes at 1nm intervals rather than saying above or below the glidepath.
Wooden approach light poles were in common use at many airfields; they had to be 'frangible' ie would collapse easily if accidentally touched by an aircraft.
Heathrow has (had) three now long gone SE/NW runways over the years. The first disappeared to make room for the Central Area and was replaced with a parallel one further west, which in turn was closed when Pier 7 was added to Terminal 3. The third one went, I think, when T1 was being built.
Chevron
thinking about it a bit I seem to remember there was a more accurate aid than SRA -Precsion something radar?, where the controller gave a running commentary of turn right 3 degrees , just below the glide etc . all very small corrections. (of course I can remember that from 196X but not what i had for breakfast today )
ATC also asked aircraft to report crossing the Thames which I think was at Laleham nr Staines -no outer marker on that runway and also reminded the crew to check wheels down and locked . At some point nearer the runway they just announced cleared to land approach completed and I assume left it to the crew to decide to land or not at decision height
The other thing about 05 R was that the approach passed over a massive fuel farm at about 100-150 ft so any undershot was going to end in a mega catastrophe.
thinking about it a bit I seem to remember there was a more accurate aid than SRA -Precsion something radar?, where the controller gave a running commentary of turn right 3 degrees , just below the glide etc . all very small corrections. (of course I can remember that from 196X but not what i had for breakfast today )
ATC also asked aircraft to report crossing the Thames which I think was at Laleham nr Staines -no outer marker on that runway and also reminded the crew to check wheels down and locked . At some point nearer the runway they just announced cleared to land approach completed and I assume left it to the crew to decide to land or not at decision height
The other thing about 05 R was that the approach passed over a massive fuel farm at about 100-150 ft so any undershot was going to end in a mega catastrophe.
Chevron
thinking about it a bit I seem to remember there was a more accurate aid than SRA -Precsion something radar?, where the controller gave a running commentary of turn right 3 degrees , just below the glide etc . all very small corrections. (of course I can remember that from 196X but not what i had for breakfast today )
ATC also asked aircraft to report crossing the Thames which I think was at Laleham nr Staines -no outer marker on that runway and also reminded the crew to check wheels down and locked . At some point nearer the runway they just announced cleared to land approach completed and I assume left it to the crew to decide to land or not at decision height
The other thing about 05 R was that the approach passed over a massive fuel farm at about 100-150 ft so any undershot was going to end in a mega catastrophe.
thinking about it a bit I seem to remember there was a more accurate aid than SRA -Precsion something radar?, where the controller gave a running commentary of turn right 3 degrees , just below the glide etc . all very small corrections. (of course I can remember that from 196X but not what i had for breakfast today )
ATC also asked aircraft to report crossing the Thames which I think was at Laleham nr Staines -no outer marker on that runway and also reminded the crew to check wheels down and locked . At some point nearer the runway they just announced cleared to land approach completed and I assume left it to the crew to decide to land or not at decision height
The other thing about 05 R was that the approach passed over a massive fuel farm at about 100-150 ft so any undershot was going to end in a mega catastrophe.