Flying Legends Duxford 08
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Flying Legends Duxford 08
I was all set to go to Duxford for Flying Legends 08, but when I read the display list on the Duxford website, I got the feeling that I'd seen it all before. Yes, seeing 3 B-17s would have been good, but apart from that, it was the same old same old, and £30 each into the bargain. So, I didn't go.
I'd be interested in what you think. Is it time to spice things up at Duxford with some bangs and flashes to wow the crowd? How about more contribution from abroad?
I'd be interested in what you think. Is it time to spice things up at Duxford with some bangs and flashes to wow the crowd? How about more contribution from abroad?
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Snapper, there is only a limited (though astonishingly large) variety of WW2 types available. What can they do?
If you have the wherewithal to fund a $10M restoration of a non-existant Black Widow then please go ahead, but even with 10 more projects like that the nature of the show won't be much different, even to the cognoscenti.
How does a Belgian/Dutch Mustang look any different to a British/American one?
If you're bored with that same old high octane stuff then go to RIAT and fall asleep, or visit Old Warden...for bangs and flashes why not try a fireworks display?
If you have the wherewithal to fund a $10M restoration of a non-existant Black Widow then please go ahead, but even with 10 more projects like that the nature of the show won't be much different, even to the cognoscenti.
How does a Belgian/Dutch Mustang look any different to a British/American one?
If you're bored with that same old high octane stuff then go to RIAT and fall asleep, or visit Old Warden...for bangs and flashes why not try a fireworks display?
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well we i was taking my 8 yr old to RIAT to pay on the gate (£45) but due to the suden change of no on the gate admission for Sunday on Friday night, , decided to go to Duxford today. and had no problem getting in at 08:30
However, With Riat cancelling completley, they closed the gates just after lunch as it was jammed pack, but was a really good day with the museum displays as well. And can you ever tire of hearing Merlins and Griffins being put through their paces. There were nine spits airbourne in circuit at one point. First time i had been, but i thought it was worth going
I certainly wont be planning a trip to Riat next year
However, With Riat cancelling completley, they closed the gates just after lunch as it was jammed pack, but was a really good day with the museum displays as well. And can you ever tire of hearing Merlins and Griffins being put through their paces. There were nine spits airbourne in circuit at one point. First time i had been, but i thought it was worth going
I certainly wont be planning a trip to Riat next year
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Contributions from abroad?
Well, apart from the US B-17G, we had the Belgian B-25, Norwegian A-26, a German Yak 3, French P-51D, Spit XIX (wth the contra prop) and a brand new rebuild P-40. OK, down a bit on previous years with loads of French aircraft, the Swiss Morane, etc... but still. The TFC Gladiator was out on the line but sadly hadn't had enough time to complete its test flying. The P-40B did get airborne, we had 8 different marks of Spitfire. Three Hawker biplanes... Sorry that you are bored with it but twenty years or so ago a display with this sort of line up was impossible to imagine. In the past we've had an A-36 Apache , two Grumman biplanes, five Corsairs... Eight Mustangs... A Lavochkin... Constellations... Three Bristol Fighters...
Big bangs? Not really necessary and how would you fit them in? The area of grass to the south of the runway is a narrow strip and it's where they park the visitors.
Agaricus, you want a Black Widow? Enough dollars, maybe, just maybe the chaps over at Reading PA will part with the rebuild they are doing... Recovered from PNG a few years back and making good progress towards flying again! Maybe when they have finished it Stephen Grey will persuade them to ferry it over for a week or two.
Well, apart from the US B-17G, we had the Belgian B-25, Norwegian A-26, a German Yak 3, French P-51D, Spit XIX (wth the contra prop) and a brand new rebuild P-40. OK, down a bit on previous years with loads of French aircraft, the Swiss Morane, etc... but still. The TFC Gladiator was out on the line but sadly hadn't had enough time to complete its test flying. The P-40B did get airborne, we had 8 different marks of Spitfire. Three Hawker biplanes... Sorry that you are bored with it but twenty years or so ago a display with this sort of line up was impossible to imagine. In the past we've had an A-36 Apache , two Grumman biplanes, five Corsairs... Eight Mustangs... A Lavochkin... Constellations... Three Bristol Fighters...
Big bangs? Not really necessary and how would you fit them in? The area of grass to the south of the runway is a narrow strip and it's where they park the visitors.
Agaricus, you want a Black Widow? Enough dollars, maybe, just maybe the chaps over at Reading PA will part with the rebuild they are doing... Recovered from PNG a few years back and making good progress towards flying again! Maybe when they have finished it Stephen Grey will persuade them to ferry it over for a week or two.
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As it's the same thread title (but with slight drift) for those who weren't there can I suggest
Duxford 2008 - dragonlady - AirSpace
for pics of the weekend's happenings..
Duxford 2008 - dragonlady - AirSpace
for pics of the weekend's happenings..
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Yes, I am afraid to say that Duxford is 'the same old stuff' Yes, lets get more aircraft from abroad. Please go down to Stephen Grey with loads of money in your hand, and I am sure he will oblige. HOWEVER this 'same old stuff' attracts a full house every year. [I have just spent four days there] and if the sight of 9 Spitfires, five P.51's etc is getting you bored, then I am afraid it's time you tried something else at the week ends. Duxford is absolutely unique in the world, even Oshkosh is the same every year, but it doesn't stop people returning time and time again [five times for me so far] Flying Legends Airshow will, and should not, change, and do remember that this show is NOT organized by Duxford, but by Stephen Grey's Fighter Collection, in order to raise money for us to have the pleasure of seeing such fabulous machinery. Aircraft go unserviceable, sometimes paperwork needs attending to, pilots aren't available, etc. but I am sure he does his utmost to bring us variety. Without this superb gentleman and his wealth, the Airshow scene would be much poorer, and I, for one, consider him and his shows beyond criticism. It was agreed by virtually all that it had been a superb event, and, incidentally, his Gladiator flew on Sunday morning.
I didn't go, purely because I worked out that with the cost of entry for us, fuel, etc it would cost over £150. And for that I can flying for an hour myself.
No contest.
No contest.
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I went and watched from a near by field, so did about 80 other cars.
Most of these were family's with the children sitting on the roof's of cars.
Just shows how expensive it can work out for a pleasant day out (im not bashing Duxford).
RD
Most of these were family's with the children sitting on the roof's of cars.
Just shows how expensive it can work out for a pleasant day out (im not bashing Duxford).
RD
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Beaufighter??
I had the immense pleasure of visiting Duxford 2 years ago and for an Aussie, who has never seen a lot of the aircraft on show, it was a sight to behold.
Walked into a hangar full of fighters (it may have been Stephen Grey's) and there was a beautiful "work in progress" of the restoration of a Beaufighter.
The chap working on it and another younger Aussie' said it had been found in the scrub in Northern Australia.
Is it operational yet?
You are so fortunate there in the UK for back here in Oz, we trashed just about all our war surplus aircraft.
A story I can relate; I was talking to some farmers from Central NSW who were both pilots during the war and they showed me the remains of a Mosquito lying out the back of their sheds, and two Merlins inside one shed.
During the war, Mosquitos were built at the De Havilland works at Bankstown near Sydney and flown to Narromine in Central NSW where they were used for training.
At the end of the war, there were a lot of Mosquitos (don't know how many) sitting at Narromine stuffed full of fuel.
There was a dispersal sale of these aircraft and the local farmers, who were having difficulty getting fuel for their tractors were buying the Mosquitos simply to get the fuel; the only proviso was, they had to take the aircraft also.
This is when I get a tear in my eye; they would drain the fuel out, then chop the airframes up with axes and cross-cut saws, throw them on their trucks, take them back to their farms and BURN THEM!
Keep the good work going at Duxford.
Walked into a hangar full of fighters (it may have been Stephen Grey's) and there was a beautiful "work in progress" of the restoration of a Beaufighter.
The chap working on it and another younger Aussie' said it had been found in the scrub in Northern Australia.
Is it operational yet?
You are so fortunate there in the UK for back here in Oz, we trashed just about all our war surplus aircraft.
A story I can relate; I was talking to some farmers from Central NSW who were both pilots during the war and they showed me the remains of a Mosquito lying out the back of their sheds, and two Merlins inside one shed.
During the war, Mosquitos were built at the De Havilland works at Bankstown near Sydney and flown to Narromine in Central NSW where they were used for training.
At the end of the war, there were a lot of Mosquitos (don't know how many) sitting at Narromine stuffed full of fuel.
There was a dispersal sale of these aircraft and the local farmers, who were having difficulty getting fuel for their tractors were buying the Mosquitos simply to get the fuel; the only proviso was, they had to take the aircraft also.
This is when I get a tear in my eye; they would drain the fuel out, then chop the airframes up with axes and cross-cut saws, throw them on their trucks, take them back to their farms and BURN THEM!
Keep the good work going at Duxford.
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Hi, Alien Role. The hangar with the Beaufighter is Stephen Grey's. I am pleased to tell you that it has been assembled, and is standing on it's wheels, minus engines at present. Mr. Grey cannot now display twin engined aircraf himself [age related, I believe] and the Beaufighter will NOT fly in the U.K. I know that it is for sale, and luckily for you, there is a rumour that it MAY be headed your way in time.
I am pleased that you took the time to visit Duxford, and that you were impressed with what you saw. G'day.
I am pleased that you took the time to visit Duxford, and that you were impressed with what you saw. G'day.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Rumour I heard is that TFC will complete the Beau (and hoepfully it will fly a bit here in the UK) before it heads off to its new owner. Believe they may still be looking for engines and props.
Tim Moore was also rebuilding a Beau at Skysport - any progress?
Tim Moore was also rebuilding a Beau at Skysport - any progress?
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My Daughter works in Cambridge and cycled to Duxford on Sunday. She said it was a superb day,even though she is not an "enthusiast" as such. Said it was not too crowded and was able to watch the display ok. Thought the new big hangar display ("Airspace"?) is absolutely stunning.
Strangely enough, she gets in cheaper on a flying day than on a non-flying day! (£9-95 as against £12-80.) No discount for arriving by cycle now, which there used to be apparently.
Sounds like very good value for money. Will visit when next over there.
Incidentally I have given up on RIAT at Fairford. A few years ago I spent half a day queuing on the road from Cheltenham to Cirencester because some numpties could not control the converging traffic flow. Just dont bother to go now.
EGCA
Strangely enough, she gets in cheaper on a flying day than on a non-flying day! (£9-95 as against £12-80.) No discount for arriving by cycle now, which there used to be apparently.
Sounds like very good value for money. Will visit when next over there.
Incidentally I have given up on RIAT at Fairford. A few years ago I spent half a day queuing on the road from Cheltenham to Cirencester because some numpties could not control the converging traffic flow. Just dont bother to go now.
EGCA
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JEM60 & treadigraph,
Thanks for your info' on the Beau'.
If it is heading Down Under, my hope is that David Lowey (Westfield Group) may have bought it for his magnificent museum at Temora in Central NSW (not far from Narromine in fact). If so, I will be fortunate enough to see it.
Temora, like a lot of airports throughout inland NSW, was a training field during the war.
I have seen a 'photo of Temora during the war, with 3 rows of Tiger Moths wingtip to wingtip almost the full length of the runway.
Oh, I wish I could spend a full summer in GB, visiting your airshows and museums!
ROLE ON....
Thanks for your info' on the Beau'.
If it is heading Down Under, my hope is that David Lowey (Westfield Group) may have bought it for his magnificent museum at Temora in Central NSW (not far from Narromine in fact). If so, I will be fortunate enough to see it.
Temora, like a lot of airports throughout inland NSW, was a training field during the war.
I have seen a 'photo of Temora during the war, with 3 rows of Tiger Moths wingtip to wingtip almost the full length of the runway.
Oh, I wish I could spend a full summer in GB, visiting your airshows and museums!
ROLE ON....
After seeing 9 shows, I'm in two minds about Flying Legends. While I wouldn't disagree about the content, which is a tribute to all the owners, engineers and pilots who put in such a great effort, I think the manner of presentation could be upgraded. After all it must have been difficult for the Bleriot to follow the 9-ship Spitfire tailchase. Perhaps the time has come to run the show in chronological order and start with the quieter vintage types and build up to the whiz-bang Merlin and Allison fighters. A few bob spent on fireworks and dummy forts would liven things up a bit but it would mean moving the visiting aircraft to Fowlmere. This wouldn't be a bad thing as a Cessna in the background to "Pink Lady" doing her grass-cutting pass isn't quite right. These things can be done and I saw a "Me 108/9" shoot down a Catalina at Ardmore a few years ago. The Me had an on-board soundsystem and the Cat had some very realistic smoke. They had a gun-firing P-40 at Wanaka this year and they always have some decent ground explosions. Perhaps Legends needs a theatrical director to whiz it up a bit.
So this year's "score" Content 9/10 Presentation 6/10.
So this year's "score" Content 9/10 Presentation 6/10.
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Being a disappointed RIAT ticket holder I persuaded Mrs Bob to let me out to see the Flying Legends show on Sunday and I had a great time. To see so many wonderful aircraft in the air and the pilots thoroughly enjoying the flying it was a fantastic spectacle. True, I haven't attended FL before so it was a new experience, but to stand in front of the flight line and watch these snarling beasts taxi back gave some idea of what it must have been like in the 40's.
I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display, but then I thought that it was a small price to pay to keep these magnificent aircraft flying so that future generations may get to see them and understand about the sacrifices made.
I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display, but then I thought that it was a small price to pay to keep these magnificent aircraft flying so that future generations may get to see them and understand about the sacrifices made.
Seven of us came from Germany and were there both days.
Unfortunate that the second Gladiator didn't fly in formation with the Shuttleworth one, that the RNHF Swordfish had engine problems and could not come, and that Sally B also was missing an engine. Besides that, what an Excellent Show of WW2 aircraft.
In our opinion the best that one can hope for EXCEPT one thing........The commentators!
We come to see the aircraft and HEAR the Merlins, Packards, Wrights & Bristol Sleeve Valve Engines. The commentary blairing out of those loudspeakers during the flying drowns out the "music" of the engines. Absoultely the wrong time and volume for any unnecessary comments.
We also think that the 5 Stearmans & Beautiful Wing Walkers hit the spot. What a lovely addition to the Flying Legends. Keep it up!
Only stop the "excess noise" (commentary) during the flying.
Thanks to all involved and we will come again!
Unfortunate that the second Gladiator didn't fly in formation with the Shuttleworth one, that the RNHF Swordfish had engine problems and could not come, and that Sally B also was missing an engine. Besides that, what an Excellent Show of WW2 aircraft.
In our opinion the best that one can hope for EXCEPT one thing........The commentators!
We come to see the aircraft and HEAR the Merlins, Packards, Wrights & Bristol Sleeve Valve Engines. The commentary blairing out of those loudspeakers during the flying drowns out the "music" of the engines. Absoultely the wrong time and volume for any unnecessary comments.
We also think that the 5 Stearmans & Beautiful Wing Walkers hit the spot. What a lovely addition to the Flying Legends. Keep it up!
Only stop the "excess noise" (commentary) during the flying.
Thanks to all involved and we will come again!
Gnome de PPRuNe
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I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display
Three hours seems the perfect length to me - I gave up going to RIAT after the MiGs collided, just too big, too many people and too long. The Tiger Club's excellent "at home" displays were three hours as well.
Unfortunate that the second Gladiator didn't fly in formation with the Shuttleworth one
I like the commentators, but I agree that they need to keep quiet more - Melvyn Hiscock did say they'd keep quiet at one point but sadly Bernard Chabbert opened his yap five seconds later... I remember them playing stirring music during a Hurricane sequence a few years ago - and the Super Connie was taking off at the time, a noise I dearly would have like to have heard clearly! And I have no intention of buying male skin care products even if Guinot do sponsor a squadron of Stearmen. Mind you, baby oil smoke, it did smell a bit better than the Sparrer's DIY IFR weather kit.
I really do think that bombs and bangs have no place at this show - it's all about the aeroplanes, and to hear and see them fly with a little bit of verve is spectacle enough for me.
Cheers all,
Treadders
Last edited by treadigraph; 16th Jul 2008 at 06:58. Reason: Grammar! Hope it reads slightly better now!
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I would have liked to attend to the Flying Legends 2008 , unfortunately I couldn't. Last time was two years ago and it was great. What a fantastic job the organizers are doing . The only comparison is the Ferte Allais show in France and it comes as a distant second both as a show and for static exhibits too. The price is similar 40 eur.They had pyrotechnics going on but the timing was so bad it looked more like a really bad B movie.I got a (paying) ride on a Ju 52 and what a great moment it was. Unfortunately the organizers didn't oblige so we didn't have the chance of saying:" Achtung Spitfeuer!"
Regarding Flying Legends something puzzles me, the best vantage point is on the slope by the land warfare museum , so why put the paying marquees beside the tower?
I am looking forward to see the ME 262 and FW 190 replicas or the Vulcan making an appearance someday.
Regarding Flying Legends something puzzles me, the best vantage point is on the slope by the land warfare museum , so why put the paying marquees beside the tower?
I am looking forward to see the ME 262 and FW 190 replicas or the Vulcan making an appearance someday.
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Hi, Treadigraph and Good Vibes. Two American friends of mine came over for the show, as they usually do, and one of them remarked, before the show, that he hoped that French Chap would keep quieter this time.
Bernard Chabbert is a man who is in love with everything connected with flying, who gets his subject across to people extremely well. He owns a Lockeed Electra and writes beautiful articles about flying. HOWEVER, I can only agree that whilst SOME information and lyrical waxing is appropriate from time to time, he really MUST keep quiet at the others. My friends loved the show [as always] but again criticsized the commentary. As one said 'we came to hear airplanes, not English with a French accent'
Bernard Chabbert is a man who is in love with everything connected with flying, who gets his subject across to people extremely well. He owns a Lockeed Electra and writes beautiful articles about flying. HOWEVER, I can only agree that whilst SOME information and lyrical waxing is appropriate from time to time, he really MUST keep quiet at the others. My friends loved the show [as always] but again criticsized the commentary. As one said 'we came to hear airplanes, not English with a French accent'
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Hi, Tembo 01. The BEST viewing is in the corner at the motorway end!!!. As regards enclosures, having them near the mound is not a possibility, because there would be too much car park space lost, and there would also be very little room between the car parks and the taxi way to accomodate them. Also, a lot of spectators prefer to be in the centre of the airfield, because they are closer to the main facilities, hangars, trade stands etc., whereas people like you and me prefer to be on a corner. Should you have an suggestions to make to Duxford management, you will find them very agreeable to deal with. My friend and I were instrumental in getting the size of the Press Enclosure at the motorway end reduced by 50% following numerous complaints by the public. Duxford management were extremely co-operative about this. Definately one of the best places on the planet in my opinion, tho' St. Maarten comes a close second!!