Munich accident 1958
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Location: norwich, norfolk, UK
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For all of those who, like me, enjoy this aircraft, despite these sad memories, I invite you to see my photos of the last remaining example being rebuilt at Duxford ......
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
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Norwich thanks for the pics of Duxford's Ambassador - I think I'm right in saying that it has progressed considerably since those pics were taken and is a serious credit to both the DAS volunteers who have been working so hard to restore her, and Dan-Air (all kneel) for preserving her in the first place... Stars.
BEags, thanks, I see Johnny "Coronation Street" Briggs starred - or so I understand. More research required... Purely Purley...
BEags, thanks, I see Johnny "Coronation Street" Briggs starred - or so I understand. More research required... Purely Purley...
Great to see the Dan Air (all hail) example under restoration!
Treadders, the last time I saw Coronation Street was in about 1962. On grainy old Band 3 405-line black and white ITV. So I've no idea who this Briggs person is.
Presumably Ena Sharples is no longer drinking 'milk stout' in 'The Snug' of the 'Rovers Return'?
Treadders, the last time I saw Coronation Street was in about 1962. On grainy old Band 3 405-line black and white ITV. So I've no idea who this Briggs person is.
Presumably Ena Sharples is no longer drinking 'milk stout' in 'The Snug' of the 'Rovers Return'?
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Munich
60 years ago today Airspeed Ambassador G-ALZU operating flight 609 crashed on take-off at Munich. 23 people were killed including several members of the Manchester United football team.
Join Date: Aug 2013
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The Munich Air Disaster.
Hi all,
watching the video program "Air Disaster" on National Geo channel, I came across this Title story.
Even if I remembered that accident, I didn't know many details of it, and I was impressed by the Captain Thain fight against the enquire commission which put the entire blame on him.
He made a lot of researches on the probable causes of his accident and discovered that about ten years earlier there was a similar accident (with no casualties) in Vancouver, Canada. It was a North Star airliner operated by Trans Canada Airlines which overshoot the runway "due to slush" on it, as found by the Canadian Commission later.
This was the initial source, ever, for this phenomenon.
I made a lot of researches for that commission's report, just for historical knowledge on this matter, but I didn't success at all.
My question now: has anybody any reference to that document?
Thank you all in advance.
watching the video program "Air Disaster" on National Geo channel, I came across this Title story.
Even if I remembered that accident, I didn't know many details of it, and I was impressed by the Captain Thain fight against the enquire commission which put the entire blame on him.
He made a lot of researches on the probable causes of his accident and discovered that about ten years earlier there was a similar accident (with no casualties) in Vancouver, Canada. It was a North Star airliner operated by Trans Canada Airlines which overshoot the runway "due to slush" on it, as found by the Canadian Commission later.
This was the initial source, ever, for this phenomenon.
I made a lot of researches for that commission's report, just for historical knowledge on this matter, but I didn't success at all.
My question now: has anybody any reference to that document?
Thank you all in advance.
Reference
Don't have one BUT BEA had two accident reports involving slush which they sat on prior to the Munich disaster, the second was a Dutch one iirc. Replicated with the Trident at Staines (premature droop retraction due to pilot error and the " unique" SOP).
I seem to remember that it was in one of the German reports (in German).
Have just googled Cap 153 G-ALZU but have only come up with the translated first German report..could not see any reference to the Canadian and Dutch accidents but there is a directive from the regulator dated 1947.
It is a fact that BA in the 80s could operate into Zurich when it was closed to Swissair due contamination.
You might find something in the flight global archives.
Another coincidence was that Stan Key of papa india was the union rep at the inquiry.
I seem to remember that it was in one of the German reports (in German).
Have just googled Cap 153 G-ALZU but have only come up with the translated first German report..could not see any reference to the Canadian and Dutch accidents but there is a directive from the regulator dated 1947.
It is a fact that BA in the 80s could operate into Zurich when it was closed to Swissair due contamination.
You might find something in the flight global archives.
Another coincidence was that Stan Key of papa india was the union rep at the inquiry.
Last edited by blind pew; 14th Jun 2020 at 18:24.
Thread Starter
Very indirectly, 'PI was one of the two Tridents which had the tail scythed off by the crashing BKS Ambassador at Heathrow. Unlike the other one, it was repaired in a major job. Between that and Staines it was in a Heathrow hangar having a check when a Comet on engine test close outside had the wrong chocks applied, overrode them, and lunged forward bringing the hangar doors down on the tail. Repaired again, an extraordinarily unlucky aircraft. I believe in the first days after Staines there was much checking of records to see if a mechanical failure from the repairs might have happened.
Very indirectly, 'PI was one of the two Tridents which had the tail scythed off by the crashing BKS Ambassador at Heathrow. Unlike the other one, it was repaired in a major job. Between that and Staines it was in a Heathrow hangar having a check when a Comet on engine test close outside had the wrong chocks applied, overrode them, and lunged forward bringing the hangar doors down on the tail. Repaired again, an extraordinarily unlucky aircraft.
I believe in the first days after Staines there was much checking of records to see if a mechanical failure from the repairs might have happened.
Link
In both accidents BEA management sat on previous occurrence reports. If they had been circulated and the pilots concerned learnt from them the accidents might not have happened.
Stan Key was sent to Coventry by a few of his colleagues for not persevering in getting Jimmy Thain reinstated. From what I witnessed of his behaviour the day before the Staines accident he was a very unhappy man.
PH, our union rep, on Tridents at the time posed his theory that as long as we had only one aircraft loss a year then managers were happy. From November 71 till I left to the VC10 6 years later our group lost eight aircraft.
Stan Key was sent to Coventry by a few of his colleagues for not persevering in getting Jimmy Thain reinstated. From what I witnessed of his behaviour the day before the Staines accident he was a very unhappy man.
PH, our union rep, on Tridents at the time posed his theory that as long as we had only one aircraft loss a year then managers were happy. From November 71 till I left to the VC10 6 years later our group lost eight aircraft.
Hi everybody ,
Thank you very much for the interesting inputs you all provided so far.
I (try to) attach a picture of the telegram (taken from the video) relevant to the Tran Canadian Airlines incident, just as a further reference.
Thank you all again.
