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Sunderland 'Golden Horn' crashed Lisbon 1943

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Sunderland 'Golden Horn' crashed Lisbon 1943

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Old 25th Jun 2023, 20:18
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A30yoyo

At Lisbon after the 1942 float replacement?

Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 a

Wreckage recovered Lisbon 1943 b
g
I wonder why there would be a British policeman in Lisbon?
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Old 26th Jun 2023, 11:44
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Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.
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Old 26th Jun 2023, 17:59
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It is surprising how often casual trial/test etc events that come to grief turn out to have unexpected passengers on them. The French high-speed train crash at Strasbourg, and the German Maglev train crash both had this. The Russian Sukhoi Superject in Indonesia 10 years ago likewise, and there have been others in the past.
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Old 26th Jun 2023, 18:59
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga
Perhaps he was connected to the embassy, or he was sent over to guard the wreckage, to safeguard any evidence for the investigation? Just guesses I'm afraid.
Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon? There's at least part of a letter 'V' painted on the large piece of what looks like a wing (although it could be part of an 'A' upside down, the reg being G-AFCK painted on camouflage) and at least 3 guys near the bobby are wearing ties, hardly the sort of garb for the Portuguese but common in the UK.

Last edited by chevvron; 27th Jun 2023 at 05:14.
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Old 27th Jun 2023, 03:27
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hardly the sort of garb for Portuguese but common in the UK
British personnel sent to investigate the crash or embassy staff?
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Old 27th Jun 2023, 12:10
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon?
That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.



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Old 27th Jun 2023, 13:56
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga
That's what I thought too, but the best I can do is this cropped bit from the second photo. I can see 'LISBOA' in the second line, although it's a stretch, which would support the photos having been taken in that country, or next to a barge that hailed from that country. If they shipped parts over to the UK, I would have expected a vessel that was a bit more substantial though.
It's the third photo containing a bobby and three 'official' looking types wearing ties that, to me, is not Lisbon and is more likely to be in the UK; I don't dispute the other photos.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 03:07
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I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 08:32
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Originally Posted by megan
I find it hard to believe that the wreckage would have been repatriated to the UK in the middle of a war.
I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 08:55
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Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 10:57
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Originally Posted by DH106
Malta? Isn't Lisbon in Portugal.
Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 11:18
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Maltese police wore that style of police uniform including the helmet; I think they changed to khaki later but I don't when; there must have been quite a few flying boat crashes there during WW2.
I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 19:10
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I don't think that happened; what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK (unlless they wore that type of police uniform in Malta)
But these pics come from the National Archives file on G-AFCK
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 19:41
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Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.
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Old 28th Jun 2023, 20:25
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Originally Posted by Expatrick
I believe the Maltese stopped using the British "Bobby" type of uniform well before the second war.
Obviously not there then!!
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 02:18
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what I'm suggesting is this third photo is of an entirely different crash somewhere around the UK
As bean has said the photos come from the official file of the G-AFCK accident, proof enough. The second photo is the underside of the tail boom with attached stabiliser, the third photo is of the upper fuselage between the wing trailing edge and fin, identified by the circular hatch, located immediately forward of the letter K of the registration in the first photo.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 04:31
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Now if we could only identify the policeman!
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 05:47
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Originally Posted by DHfan
Embassies generally are "guarded" and I wouldn't have thought that we could spare or need a platoon or whatever of armed servicemen.

As Portugal was neutral, and our oldest ally, I wouldn't be surprised if UK policemen were part of the embassy staff.
My wife's father spent 2 years as an army corporal in WW2 'guarding' the embassy (or maybe it was the High Commision) in Jamaica so at least in some cases, it did happen.
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 07:53
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Maybe the photo wasn't taken in Lisbon? There's at least part of a letter 'V' painted on the large piece of what looks like a wing (although it could be part of an 'A' upside down, the reg being G-AFCK painted on camouflage) and at least 3 guys near the bobby are wearing ties, hardly the sort of garb for the Portuguese but common in the UK.
For me, the decider is the tiled paving. You see this all over Lisbon, but not many other places. I would discount the ties. This was the 1940s when such formal clothes were more common. I've spent a lot of time in Portugal (mainly Lisbon), and those who have senior positions still wear ties, even today. The language and the customs of Portugal remain more formal than those of many counties in Europe. Notice also how high the land is on the other side of the dock. Lisbon is very hilly, (said, like a number of other cities, to be built on seven hills).
I can't offer a sensible explanation for the bobby. Possibly from the embassy, because it seems unlikely that they would send one all the way from the UK to guard a piece of aircraft wreckage. One random thought - could he have been sent from Gibraltar?
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Old 29th Jun 2023, 08:34
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Barry Lloyd. Very gpod suggestion
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