Falklands Crash Sites
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Please go ahead and do so..
http://misvivenciasenlaguerrademalvinas.*************/
Argentine Daggers in the Falklands 1982 - Military Photos
Regards, P.
Edit - I see PPRuNe doesn't like b l o g s p o t . c o m, which is the bit behind the stars.
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Certainly, I give you all that I found and the source
Regards,
Frans
Italeri 1/48 Mirage IIIE converted to Dagger, by Pablo Calcaterra
Regards,
Frans
Italeri 1/48 Mirage IIIE converted to Dagger, by Pablo Calcaterra
Last edited by Frans175; 21st Dec 2008 at 17:24.
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Welcome Frans 175. I´m also interested in photos of Daggers during the wartime. Specially in the following planes: C-417, C-418, C-431 and C-436. If possible from the starboard side and upper surface.
Thanks a lot
Regards from Spain
Thanks a lot
Regards from Spain
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As an ousider from Australia, I have read the whole story with great interest.
What the records tell me shows that when things have to be done, amazing things can happen.
The air to refueling mod to allow the C130's to transit so far, alldone and in use in 6 weeks.
The ability of people to clearly remember facts over a quarter of century ago. My experience as an aviation researcher and historian indicates that often veterans cannot remember what they did last week, but ask them to go back a long way, the memory is as clear as today.
The story also shows, as we have seen in previous conflicts, that the "enemy" on both sides, quickly after the conflict is ended, soon close ranks and we all go back to what we enjoy most, and that is being military aircrew.
This discusion is made so much more interesting, by the contributions from the other sides armed forces.
Show to me the spirt of Christmas is still with most of us.
Regards
Col
What the records tell me shows that when things have to be done, amazing things can happen.
The air to refueling mod to allow the C130's to transit so far, alldone and in use in 6 weeks.
The ability of people to clearly remember facts over a quarter of century ago. My experience as an aviation researcher and historian indicates that often veterans cannot remember what they did last week, but ask them to go back a long way, the memory is as clear as today.
The story also shows, as we have seen in previous conflicts, that the "enemy" on both sides, quickly after the conflict is ended, soon close ranks and we all go back to what we enjoy most, and that is being military aircrew.
This discusion is made so much more interesting, by the contributions from the other sides armed forces.
Show to me the spirt of Christmas is still with most of us.
Regards
Col
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Jualbo and Navaleye.
Quote:
Hi again. I found that more or less, at the same time that Ardiles was flying over Falklands there were the following argentinean flights on air in the zone:
-Torno flight: 3 Daggers (Dimeglio-Aguirre-Román) aproaching at low level over the north shore of Falklands, so probably not detected by HMS Glamorgan. They attacked Glamorgan as well as Alacrity and Arrow.
- Buitre flight: 2 Mirage III CAP (Gambandé-Yebra)
- Dardo flight: 2 Mirage III CAP (Gª Cuerva-Perona)
- Fortín Flight: 2 Dagger CAP (Donadille-Senn)
- Rubio flight: 1 Dagger CAP (Ardiles)
Is it possible to time line these and find out which pairs the 'D' in Glamorgan was looking at especially when Martin Hale and Tony Penfold were vectored?
Martin is quite vociferous on this matter. He vehemently claims he was shot at and tracked by a front hemisphere missile of some kind. His emails make compelling reading but he will not allow me to publish them on this forum.
I certainly have no reason to doubt him.
I believe the 'D' in Glamorgan? reported a contact exiting the area at high speed just after the Penfold/Ardiles engagement.
The whereabouts and activities of 'Buitre' flight would be particularly interesting as they would have been the only others airborne at the time with radar (head on) missiles.
Did any of these Argentinean CAP's release any weapons other than Dardo flight against Thomas and Barton?
ES
Quote:
Hi again. I found that more or less, at the same time that Ardiles was flying over Falklands there were the following argentinean flights on air in the zone:
-Torno flight: 3 Daggers (Dimeglio-Aguirre-Román) aproaching at low level over the north shore of Falklands, so probably not detected by HMS Glamorgan. They attacked Glamorgan as well as Alacrity and Arrow.
- Buitre flight: 2 Mirage III CAP (Gambandé-Yebra)
- Dardo flight: 2 Mirage III CAP (Gª Cuerva-Perona)
- Fortín Flight: 2 Dagger CAP (Donadille-Senn)
- Rubio flight: 1 Dagger CAP (Ardiles)
Is it possible to time line these and find out which pairs the 'D' in Glamorgan was looking at especially when Martin Hale and Tony Penfold were vectored?
Martin is quite vociferous on this matter. He vehemently claims he was shot at and tracked by a front hemisphere missile of some kind. His emails make compelling reading but he will not allow me to publish them on this forum.
I certainly have no reason to doubt him.
I believe the 'D' in Glamorgan? reported a contact exiting the area at high speed just after the Penfold/Ardiles engagement.
The whereabouts and activities of 'Buitre' flight would be particularly interesting as they would have been the only others airborne at the time with radar (head on) missiles.
Did any of these Argentinean CAP's release any weapons other than Dardo flight against Thomas and Barton?
ES
Last edited by Edmund Spencer; 27th Dec 2008 at 12:32.
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Daggers and Mirages
hello Mr. Edmund! Good to hear from you...
And hello to the other Argentine members.
As far as I have read (very quickly, to be honest) I cannot agree more with information and sources mentioned by Jualbo. In fact, you are using the same magazines and books I have.
I remember that in the Official video of Malvinas (by the Air Force) there is a short shot of a Mirage being chased by a missile, being hit and cartwheeling on the ground (the plane is in a right hand tight turn). I clearly remember that the Mirage was not smoking (only the standard smoke that comes out of the jet exhaust). Now, if all accounts say that GC was hit only by 35/20 mm guns, this is not his plane (as stated somewhere above) because a missile hits him.
All Air Force sources I have checked have confirmed no damage to his plane before approaching to land.
Hope this helps.
Pictures posted above (Dagger 404) were taken by Allan White for my article (in www.modelingmadness.com) where the historic part was researched along with one of the members of this thread...
Happy 09 everyone!
Pablo
And hello to the other Argentine members.
As far as I have read (very quickly, to be honest) I cannot agree more with information and sources mentioned by Jualbo. In fact, you are using the same magazines and books I have.
I remember that in the Official video of Malvinas (by the Air Force) there is a short shot of a Mirage being chased by a missile, being hit and cartwheeling on the ground (the plane is in a right hand tight turn). I clearly remember that the Mirage was not smoking (only the standard smoke that comes out of the jet exhaust). Now, if all accounts say that GC was hit only by 35/20 mm guns, this is not his plane (as stated somewhere above) because a missile hits him.
All Air Force sources I have checked have confirmed no damage to his plane before approaching to land.
Hope this helps.
Pictures posted above (Dagger 404) were taken by Allan White for my article (in www.modelingmadness.com) where the historic part was researched along with one of the members of this thread...
Happy 09 everyone!
Pablo
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1 de mayo - film
got an answer from a contact who was in the islands during May 1sts, recording the events.
GCuerva's plane was not smoking or leaking fuel. He rocked his wings to be identified and got shot by all guns (no missile).
So the film that was mentioned above is not Garcia Cuerva's plane being shot down.
Regards
Pablo
GCuerva's plane was not smoking or leaking fuel. He rocked his wings to be identified and got shot by all guns (no missile).
So the film that was mentioned above is not Garcia Cuerva's plane being shot down.
Regards
Pablo
Suspicion breeds confidence
Relative position of the Fleet 1 May, 1982
I've been having a look at the 1st Black Buck raid on May 1, I was curious to know relative position of the task force force for this raid. A quick trawl quickly yielded the information as shown on the graphic below. Thought this might be of interest for our Argentine friends.
This places Invincible 106NM from Stanley airport, 530NM from Rio Gallegos and 483NM from Rio Grande.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
This places Invincible 106NM from Stanley airport, 530NM from Rio Gallegos and 483NM from Rio Grande.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Suspicion breeds confidence
A4 wreckage on Steeple Jason
KG86,
Many thanks for the info about the wreck on Steeple Jason. I took a peek on Google and the scene is still just as you described. Pic below from Google Earth.
Later edit: I took a look from another angle, south to North and its an A4 to be sure. The tail is very distinctive. Can't tell what's in the debris field, possibly drop tanks. I would guess the impact point at 300ft. Is this consistent with the attack profile used at the time?
The two accounts of this engagement don't stand up. Coventry locked up three targets, assessed to be a C-130 and two escorts, believed Mirages. Coventry engaged at 38 miles with a pair of Sea Dart, one aimed at the Herc, the other at the escorts. Both 909s had lock and two channels were available. The Herc shot was seen to miss, but the second was seen by Broadsword to hit at least one of the escorts.
Now: Steeple Jason Island is 143 miles away from Coventry. If this aircraft was part of the flight, it could have paid no part because it crashed inbound and could not have been detected by Coventry at that range/altitude if she was East of the Falklands.
Could our friends in Argentina shed more light on this?
Many thanks for the info about the wreck on Steeple Jason. I took a peek on Google and the scene is still just as you described. Pic below from Google Earth.
Later edit: I took a look from another angle, south to North and its an A4 to be sure. The tail is very distinctive. Can't tell what's in the debris field, possibly drop tanks. I would guess the impact point at 300ft. Is this consistent with the attack profile used at the time?
The two accounts of this engagement don't stand up. Coventry locked up three targets, assessed to be a C-130 and two escorts, believed Mirages. Coventry engaged at 38 miles with a pair of Sea Dart, one aimed at the Herc, the other at the escorts. Both 909s had lock and two channels were available. The Herc shot was seen to miss, but the second was seen by Broadsword to hit at least one of the escorts.
Now: Steeple Jason Island is 143 miles away from Coventry. If this aircraft was part of the flight, it could have paid no part because it crashed inbound and could not have been detected by Coventry at that range/altitude if she was East of the Falklands.
Could our friends in Argentina shed more light on this?
Last edited by Navaleye; 29th Dec 2008 at 23:46.
PabloCalcaterra wrote
Please excuse me if I am incorrect, but was this the footage that you saw?
YouTube - Harrier derribado desde tierra por comandos argentinos
The footage although linked to the conflict shows the demise of an F-102/F-106 target drone. Not having access to actual combat footage many documentaries fall back on drone test-range footage to represent shootdowns.
The footage of Captain Garcia Cuerva's Mirage crashing does exist. It has been shown on at least one documentary.
TJ
I remember that in the Official video of Malvinas (by the Air Force) there is a short shot of a Mirage being chased by a missile, being hit and cartwheeling on the ground (the plane is in a right hand tight turn). I clearly remember that the Mirage was not smoking (only the standard smoke that comes out of the jet exhaust). Now, if all accounts say that GC was hit only by 35/20 mm guns, this is not his plane (as stated somewhere above) because a missile hits him.
YouTube - Harrier derribado desde tierra por comandos argentinos
The footage although linked to the conflict shows the demise of an F-102/F-106 target drone. Not having access to actual combat footage many documentaries fall back on drone test-range footage to represent shootdowns.
The footage of Captain Garcia Cuerva's Mirage crashing does exist. It has been shown on at least one documentary.
TJ