Hurricane crash at Shoreham airshow
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I think John Farley is well qualified to say what he thinks happened and I agree it is fairly clear why the aircraft crashed but it is not clear what caused it to do so, we may never know! However, I assume Mr Farley is rightly keeping his thoughts to himself as there may be more to this than meets the eye and we need to see what those clever chaps at AAIB discover, they may shed more light on the matter. Things are not always as clear cut as they first appear.
What is clear from the above postings is this was an experienced and well respected pilot and there are lessons to be learned as there always are in these cases. Lets make sure we learn the right ones and not just assume! Speculation is of little value but understandable!
Whatever the reason for the crash Mr Brown appears to have made a positive contribution to aviation and gained the respct of those he came into contact with. May we all have that said of us and be so well thought of when our turn comes.
What is clear from the above postings is this was an experienced and well respected pilot and there are lessons to be learned as there always are in these cases. Lets make sure we learn the right ones and not just assume! Speculation is of little value but understandable!
Whatever the reason for the crash Mr Brown appears to have made a positive contribution to aviation and gained the respct of those he came into contact with. May we all have that said of us and be so well thought of when our turn comes.
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I thought that the combined experience and knowledge which can be mustered on this forum could help discuss aviation in all its aspects; including accidents.
But if we are not to do so when there has been a death, and the only contributor who feels he knows what happened isn't going to tell us, I am at a loss as to the function of the forum.
As for waiting for the AAIB report, they might well be guided into what sort of questions to ask BEFORE writing it, if all the possible factors were discussed here.
Left to their own devices I reckon they do a pretty poor job with accidents outside the heavy, recorder equipped, public carriers.
Certainly they made a hash of my own minor prang - after I had given them chapter and verse on the system I had failed to check, including detailed illustrations of the mechanism, and a description of what I did wrong!
But if we are not to do so when there has been a death, and the only contributor who feels he knows what happened isn't going to tell us, I am at a loss as to the function of the forum.
As for waiting for the AAIB report, they might well be guided into what sort of questions to ask BEFORE writing it, if all the possible factors were discussed here.
Left to their own devices I reckon they do a pretty poor job with accidents outside the heavy, recorder equipped, public carriers.
Certainly they made a hash of my own minor prang - after I had given them chapter and verse on the system I had failed to check, including detailed illustrations of the mechanism, and a description of what I did wrong!
Last edited by Woodenwonder; 24th Sep 2007 at 10:31. Reason: paragraph spacing, spelling
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QUOTE: I thought that the combined experience and knowledge which can be mustered on this forum could help discuss aviation in all its aspects; including accidents.
But if we are not to do so when there has been a death, and the only contributor who feels he knows what happened isn't going to tell us, I am at a loss as to the function of the forum.
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Woodenwonder, you may have misunderstood the situation. There is no mystery as to what happened - JF knows what happened, so does anyone who has seen the video or the actual accident. If you haven't, then WHAT happened has been accurately described on here a few posts back.
What we don't know is why it happened. As far as I know JF has not professed to know that (QUOTE JF: I ask because if so I feel it is very clear what happened but of course leaves us with only conjecture as to why. ). And neither to the best of my knowledge has anyone else on here.
SSD
But if we are not to do so when there has been a death, and the only contributor who feels he knows what happened isn't going to tell us, I am at a loss as to the function of the forum.
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Woodenwonder, you may have misunderstood the situation. There is no mystery as to what happened - JF knows what happened, so does anyone who has seen the video or the actual accident. If you haven't, then WHAT happened has been accurately described on here a few posts back.
What we don't know is why it happened. As far as I know JF has not professed to know that (QUOTE JF: I ask because if so I feel it is very clear what happened but of course leaves us with only conjecture as to why. ). And neither to the best of my knowledge has anyone else on here.
SSD
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Woodenwonder
With respect this forum is for rumour and most of what gets posted is just that. Out of respect for a dead pilot, his friends and family Professional pilots be they PPLS, Military or Commercial would rather not speculate on a web site open to the press and general public.
The AAIB are a very professional organization and I doubt anything posted here will be of any help to them. They will have plenty of video footage handed in by those at the show and witness statements not to mention the physical evidence and records. As for your remarks regarding AAIB I cannot comment on your "PRANG" but in my experience AAIB have done a fantastic job over the years improving flight safety and getting to the bottom of most accidents.
We all want instant answers in these days of 24 hour news but in situations like this they often are not available. Whilst in my own mind I think I know what happened there could be factors I know nothing about so like many others I will wait for the AAIB report.
With respect this forum is for rumour and most of what gets posted is just that. Out of respect for a dead pilot, his friends and family Professional pilots be they PPLS, Military or Commercial would rather not speculate on a web site open to the press and general public.
The AAIB are a very professional organization and I doubt anything posted here will be of any help to them. They will have plenty of video footage handed in by those at the show and witness statements not to mention the physical evidence and records. As for your remarks regarding AAIB I cannot comment on your "PRANG" but in my experience AAIB have done a fantastic job over the years improving flight safety and getting to the bottom of most accidents.
We all want instant answers in these days of 24 hour news but in situations like this they often are not available. Whilst in my own mind I think I know what happened there could be factors I know nothing about so like many others I will wait for the AAIB report.
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I agree with your post, Kinsman, except I don't think the AAIB is quite the organisation it was. I used to have great respect for it, but was involved some years ago in the periphery of a minor accident they reported. They stepped way outside their 'objective' brief, were a tad lazy in who they interviewed, and consequently put some stuff in the report that was biased and misleading and stemmed from 'blame deflection' by the one party interviwed against another who wasn't. If they'd stuck to fact and avoided opinion, that wouldn't have happened.
Life's too short for ironing
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To bring the topic back to its original subject...
For those of you interested who haven't already found it, the Real Aero website has a lovely photographic tribute to Brian, on the Bugle page (www.realaero.com). I just made our online donation to the Yorkshire Air Ambulance this morning in his memory. Delighted to make the donation, just wish it wasn't for such a sad situation.
For those of you interested who haven't already found it, the Real Aero website has a lovely photographic tribute to Brian, on the Bugle page (www.realaero.com). I just made our online donation to the Yorkshire Air Ambulance this morning in his memory. Delighted to make the donation, just wish it wasn't for such a sad situation.
Last edited by fernytickles; 25th Sep 2007 at 13:14.
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It is clear that some would like to see speculation run a course. You can find that on other websites but not this one I'm afraid.
Speculation has a habit of creating scenarios that are a few miles away from the truth and which often refer to things that did not actually occur. In the end it serves no purpose - as always.
We here, for the time being, are interested only in a man who has left an indelible mark on aviation and to whom many can look up to.
Time tell, or not, as the case may be. In the meantime Brian Brown's name must not be allowed to be rained upon because someone has a view that they think is right but can turn out to be very wrong.
Please keep on the topic and no speculation please.
Speculation has a habit of creating scenarios that are a few miles away from the truth and which often refer to things that did not actually occur. In the end it serves no purpose - as always.
We here, for the time being, are interested only in a man who has left an indelible mark on aviation and to whom many can look up to.
Time tell, or not, as the case may be. In the meantime Brian Brown's name must not be allowed to be rained upon because someone has a view that they think is right but can turn out to be very wrong.
Please keep on the topic and no speculation please.
I fully concur with PPrune
Spare a thought for Brian tomorrow @13:15, godspeed Brian, you will be missed & remembered forever.
This is a time for thinking of Brian, his family & his friends, the investigation is for another time.
We fly, we cry, we belong to the the sky, a world without bounds, a world so beautiful & yet so fragile but just a whisper away.
This is a time for thinking of Brian, his family & his friends, the investigation is for another time.
We fly, we cry, we belong to the the sky, a world without bounds, a world so beautiful & yet so fragile but just a whisper away.
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Knowing JF, as I have had the privelege, I am damn sure he would have a quiet word wherever suitable if he thought it was required...
My only experience of AAIB / BOI was during very politically charged situations - those with a knowledge of the Harrier GR5 development will know what I mean, and a very short search would produce a relevant website.
In the case I'm thinking of, the results were very skewed indeed ( though eventually put right ) but that was a very different situation, see no reason why this sad accident should not be treated professionally and hopefully lessons can be learned in whatever way.
I saw the pilot's funeral on local TV tonight - all I can do is offer thanks to him for all the enjoyment he gave to so many people, up to the day, and sympathy for his family & friends.
I didn't see any mention of a flypast, maybe that would have been too painful.
My only experience of AAIB / BOI was during very politically charged situations - those with a knowledge of the Harrier GR5 development will know what I mean, and a very short search would produce a relevant website.
In the case I'm thinking of, the results were very skewed indeed ( though eventually put right ) but that was a very different situation, see no reason why this sad accident should not be treated professionally and hopefully lessons can be learned in whatever way.
I saw the pilot's funeral on local TV tonight - all I can do is offer thanks to him for all the enjoyment he gave to so many people, up to the day, and sympathy for his family & friends.
I didn't see any mention of a flypast, maybe that would have been too painful.
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I was there and witnessed the accident and am shaken by it. In one of those ironic moments, I had been thinking earlier in the show, that given the number of airshows I have been to, I have been lucky not to see an accident.
Commiserations to all concerned.
I knew from about ten seconds before the crash that something had gone wrong.
I just avoided the urge to vomit as I saw the smoke, and several times after.
I am split on this one - yes I want to talk to people in the aviation fraternity about what went wrong, but I also feel I should not in respect of the pilot.
One question comes to mind. After tha accident, I needed to be away from aeroplanes (for the first time in my life) so I tried to leave, but the gates were sealed for about ten minutes.
Under what laws would this be?
Commiserations to all concerned.
I knew from about ten seconds before the crash that something had gone wrong.
I just avoided the urge to vomit as I saw the smoke, and several times after.
I am split on this one - yes I want to talk to people in the aviation fraternity about what went wrong, but I also feel I should not in respect of the pilot.
One question comes to mind. After tha accident, I needed to be away from aeroplanes (for the first time in my life) so I tried to leave, but the gates were sealed for about ten minutes.
Under what laws would this be?
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spekesoftly,
As the police radio controller at the airshow I can confirm that was the case, also I believe that it was so the organisers could broadcast a request for videos etc before people left, although I don't know if that happened as I was rather busy making sure the main roads and local area got closed off asap.
As the police radio controller at the airshow I can confirm that was the case, also I believe that it was so the organisers could broadcast a request for videos etc before people left, although I don't know if that happened as I was rather busy making sure the main roads and local area got closed off asap.
fully understand your feelings synthetic
I fully understand your feelings Synthetic, I was at Duxford went Hoof Proudfoot went down with around the same timescale in seconds of realising that it wasn't going to end well- it was a mixture of disbelief, shock, horror & above all else an absolute & awful sadness having seen him earlier in the day along the flight line & chatting with the ground crews (Godspeed Hoof, you were one of the very best in my book both in pilot skills & people skills, almost 10 years since you departed this physical world but my memories will always remain vibrant & positive of you )
I am an aviator but not any where even close to the standard of the guys & lady pilots who display & fly these wonderful machines.
I never met Brian but from what I've read & from seeing that wonderful 'contented aviators' smile in his photos I believe that he was of the same ilk, as they all are, these really are very special people with special skills (although they make light of it generally) to both fly & operate these wondeful aeroplanes takes dedication, skill, knowledge & above all else an absolute commitment which is an extremely fitting tribute to the pilots who flew them in action all those years ago, the years pass by but the common bond of aviators lasts for eternity - Per Ardua Ad Astra.
I am an aviator but not any where even close to the standard of the guys & lady pilots who display & fly these wonderful machines.
I never met Brian but from what I've read & from seeing that wonderful 'contented aviators' smile in his photos I believe that he was of the same ilk, as they all are, these really are very special people with special skills (although they make light of it generally) to both fly & operate these wondeful aeroplanes takes dedication, skill, knowledge & above all else an absolute commitment which is an extremely fitting tribute to the pilots who flew them in action all those years ago, the years pass by but the common bond of aviators lasts for eternity - Per Ardua Ad Astra.
I was also at the show, and me and my mate tried to leave after the accident. (If I had any photograph/video footage I of course would have remained and submitted it). Like 'Synthetic' we both just wanted to get away from the airfield and away from aeroplanes.
There was a short delay in exiting the airfield, but the guys deserve huge credit for getting everyone out in quick time considering there was only one exit.
A great shame that the 2007 event will probably be remembered for the Hurricane accident, and the show in general will be associated with it for a few years to come.
There was a short delay in exiting the airfield, but the guys deserve huge credit for getting everyone out in quick time considering there was only one exit.
A great shame that the 2007 event will probably be remembered for the Hurricane accident, and the show in general will be associated with it for a few years to come.