Hurricane crash at Shoreham airshow
On Sunday, at very short notice, we were asked to help out a visiting Spitfire PR XIX which needed some 100LL in a hurry. Sorted him out and off he went to his display. Fabulous aeroplane in a gin clear Battle of Britain sky.
Whilst chewing the fat with his engineers after he'd gone, we discussed the causes of some historic aircraft accidents: Spitfire XIV, KingCobra, Mosquito, P38, Firefly..... "Touch wood, this year hasn't been bad", we agreed.
Then I went flying. Landed and heard about the Hurricane. Such a tragedy. I've seen the tape of the final moments and cannot really work out what could conceivably have happened.
RIP - and I hope that 'Reichman' will be the first to buy you a beer up there, Brian.
Whilst chewing the fat with his engineers after he'd gone, we discussed the causes of some historic aircraft accidents: Spitfire XIV, KingCobra, Mosquito, P38, Firefly..... "Touch wood, this year hasn't been bad", we agreed.
Then I went flying. Landed and heard about the Hurricane. Such a tragedy. I've seen the tape of the final moments and cannot really work out what could conceivably have happened.
RIP - and I hope that 'Reichman' will be the first to buy you a beer up there, Brian.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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BEagle
Is the tape to which you refer the one that shows the final manoeuvre and impact?
I ask because if so I feel it is very clear what happened but of course leaves us with only conjecture as to why. BTW I certainly do not feel this is the time and place to go into such conjecture however well based that might be from one's own experiences.
JF
Is the tape to which you refer the one that shows the final manoeuvre and impact?
I ask because if so I feel it is very clear what happened but of course leaves us with only conjecture as to why. BTW I certainly do not feel this is the time and place to go into such conjecture however well based that might be from one's own experiences.
JF
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Brian buzzing a "Messerschmidt" for Yorkshire Air Ambulance 3rd anniversary. I was flying the Heli and also had a trip with him in a Bucker Jungmeister. A great bloke and true aviation enthusiast. RIP
How terribly sad to have lost such a fine man, as another member of the helicopter fraternity who had dropped into Breighton occasionally and been allowed to wander around the hangars and look in awe at the fantastic aircraft there I am truly saddened.
Was only a month or two ago I was chatting to him about the airshow season and what he was doing this year, a man who genuinely enjoyed what he did.
RIP Brian, you will be missed, aviation needs more like you.
Was only a month or two ago I was chatting to him about the airshow season and what he was doing this year, a man who genuinely enjoyed what he did.
RIP Brian, you will be missed, aviation needs more like you.
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Just an observation on my part - nothing more.
The video of the final movements of the Hurricane, in my view do bear more than a passing similarity to that of the Firefly accident at Duxford.
RIP Brian.
FS
The video of the final movements of the Hurricane, in my view do bear more than a passing similarity to that of the Firefly accident at Duxford.
RIP Brian.
FS
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@ John Farley
I've watched the video* several times and I can't see it. Stall? Loss of engine? Control surfaces?
I have heard "local talk" of the engine cutting out, but the prop seems to have been rotating all the time (do piston-props "windmill"?)
One of the regional papers had a headline "Hero Pilot Avoids Crowd" - (I didn't manage to buy that paper) Maybe he was limited as to where/how he could allow the aircraft to go down by show-watchers in the surrounding areas?
Any suggestions as to what might have been the problem?
(*there are a couple "out there" showing the moments before the crash - too many just showing smoke and fires that should not be publicised - I saw that smoke last Saturday, and do NOT need to be reminded)
At our (Buffalo) Lodge on Tuesday in Littlehampton, we shared a moment's silence for Brian during our weekly "remembering the fallen"
Bye Brian - We all wish you could have been here to tell us
I feel it is very clear what happened
I have heard "local talk" of the engine cutting out, but the prop seems to have been rotating all the time (do piston-props "windmill"?)
One of the regional papers had a headline "Hero Pilot Avoids Crowd" - (I didn't manage to buy that paper) Maybe he was limited as to where/how he could allow the aircraft to go down by show-watchers in the surrounding areas?
Any suggestions as to what might have been the problem?
(*there are a couple "out there" showing the moments before the crash - too many just showing smoke and fires that should not be publicised - I saw that smoke last Saturday, and do NOT need to be reminded)
At our (Buffalo) Lodge on Tuesday in Littlehampton, we shared a moment's silence for Brian during our weekly "remembering the fallen"
Bye Brian - We all wish you could have been here to tell us
Last edited by ExSimGuy; 20th Sep 2007 at 11:34.
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Golf India Tango, Some Police Cadets were there as well. Was at a debrief later, none saw the actual crash although all saw the resulting smoke. Their welfare will be looked after. Yes there was a slightly subdued feeling afterwards and the numbers were certainly lower on the Sunday but I believe mainly due the the poorer weather.
ExSimGuy, Several Officers who attended the actual scene and the staff in the RAFA radio room, also wondered if the aircraft was placed into the final crash site. Had it gone anywhere else then ground inj's, or worse, would have happened. I will always believe that Brian choose his final resting place.
ExSimGuy, Several Officers who attended the actual scene and the staff in the RAFA radio room, also wondered if the aircraft was placed into the final crash site. Had it gone anywhere else then ground inj's, or worse, would have happened. I will always believe that Brian choose his final resting place.
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The BBC won't make any money out of me...
And for the press - will they ever crawl back under their stone!
I can't imagine what it was like for Brian in the crashed Hurricane, It is always at the back of our minds.
He knew the risks of Display Flying, But he put the spectators 1st, And sadly died in the process.
And they have the 'gorm' to put this on You tube!!
R I P
And for the press - will they ever crawl back under their stone!
I can't imagine what it was like for Brian in the crashed Hurricane, It is always at the back of our minds.
He knew the risks of Display Flying, But he put the spectators 1st, And sadly died in the process.
And they have the 'gorm' to put this on You tube!!
R I P
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I met Brian several times at Breighton during my time at Church Fenton and he was a fine bloke, however I have no problem with the BBC and others posting video clips as I find them to be generally informative (as I teach aerobatics occasionally I want to know what has caught out an experienced display pilot).
The video of the Hurricane's final moments shows it pulling up to about 10-15 degrees and beginning an aileron roll to the left. As the aircraft nears the inverted attitude the nose begins to drop and then pitches more sharply down as if to pull through. As the aircraft passes through the vertical there is a slight change of heading and the wings can be seen to rock, then it disappears from view. Control surface position cannot be seen from the video that I viewed. These are facts, not opinions. As John Farley has mentioned though, why this happened is unclear, and having seen him display the same Hurricane at Breighton several times I find it hard to believe it was a wholly deliberate sequence of manoeuvres without some other external influence, whether medical, airframe or engine.
Having said that I will allow myself an opinion, which I believe very strongly: In a museum these aircraft are dead and may as well be plastic models. They MUST be flown and seen and heard by airshow audiences. Listen to Brian talking about the sound of a Merlin then tell me we should ground these aircraft. The sight and sound of that solitary Hurricane looping and rolling up and down the grass runway at Breighton on a warm summer day was worth a million visits to all the museums in the world, and much, much more.
Best wishes to all at Breighton from one of the Fenton Firefly pilots.
The video of the Hurricane's final moments shows it pulling up to about 10-15 degrees and beginning an aileron roll to the left. As the aircraft nears the inverted attitude the nose begins to drop and then pitches more sharply down as if to pull through. As the aircraft passes through the vertical there is a slight change of heading and the wings can be seen to rock, then it disappears from view. Control surface position cannot be seen from the video that I viewed. These are facts, not opinions. As John Farley has mentioned though, why this happened is unclear, and having seen him display the same Hurricane at Breighton several times I find it hard to believe it was a wholly deliberate sequence of manoeuvres without some other external influence, whether medical, airframe or engine.
Having said that I will allow myself an opinion, which I believe very strongly: In a museum these aircraft are dead and may as well be plastic models. They MUST be flown and seen and heard by airshow audiences. Listen to Brian talking about the sound of a Merlin then tell me we should ground these aircraft. The sight and sound of that solitary Hurricane looping and rolling up and down the grass runway at Breighton on a warm summer day was worth a million visits to all the museums in the world, and much, much more.
Best wishes to all at Breighton from one of the Fenton Firefly pilots.
Last edited by DB6; 22nd Sep 2007 at 08:58.
Breighton Bugle
The Breighton website has a fitting tribute and some photos of Brian at
http://www.realaero.com/news/news.htm
G.
http://www.realaero.com/news/news.htm
G.
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Whilst I agree with much of DB6s post - the videos of the actual crash itself are as said informative, what I do find objectionable on youtube are the number of videos that are of the smoke and wreckage, these I did not watch and flagged as innapropriate.
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Foxmoth said:
Spoken like a true gentleman and the very same reason why I would never post links to any of my Breighton pics in a thread such as this!
Brian could never be replaced, but I hope the rest of the members and staff at Breighton can pull themselves through this tragic event and keep Breighton the friendly, welcoming place it is, so that Brian can look down with pride on his airfield.
Brian Brown, 1957-2007, R.I.P, from aviation lovers everywhere
these I did not watch and flagged as innapropriate.
Brian could never be replaced, but I hope the rest of the members and staff at Breighton can pull themselves through this tragic event and keep Breighton the friendly, welcoming place it is, so that Brian can look down with pride on his airfield.
Brian Brown, 1957-2007, R.I.P, from aviation lovers everywhere
Gnome de PPRuNe
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DB6, thank you, your third paragraph is spot on.
Foxmoth, agreed, I have no problem with the Youtube videos but as you say the dwelling on wreckage is uneccessary.
Aviation can be so terribly unforgiving even of its most favoured children - but the most positive thing of threads such as this are the memories posted by those who knew them.
Foxmoth, agreed, I have no problem with the Youtube videos but as you say the dwelling on wreckage is uneccessary.
Aviation can be so terribly unforgiving even of its most favoured children - but the most positive thing of threads such as this are the memories posted by those who knew them.
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Very Sad
I watched the accident happen sadly and am content to wait for the AAIB report rather than speculate. However, the description of what happened is accurate and fits what I saw. The Hurricane was fairly close behind a 108 and a little to his left from my vantage point. The 108 pulled up to between 500 and 700 feet and carried out a roll to the left, rolling out in a right turn. The maneuver was carried out towards rising ground with Lancing Chapel and its associated buildings just to the right of the roll axis. The Hurricane appeared to attempt to duplicate this maneuver at a similar airspeed to the 108.
I passed the crash site today walking the dog, it is fairly close to the school buildings and an area where spectators stood during the show. It could have been a much worse accident!
Whatever the reason for the crash it is a sad loss of a well respected pilot and a fine aeroplane. I did not know the pilot concerned but from the kind words above he would appear to be one of the good guys. Accidents happen to the best of us.
In thirty three years of flying I have been very fortunate not to have seen a fatal crash, I hope I never see another!
To his friends and family my heart felt sympathy.
I passed the crash site today walking the dog, it is fairly close to the school buildings and an area where spectators stood during the show. It could have been a much worse accident!
Whatever the reason for the crash it is a sad loss of a well respected pilot and a fine aeroplane. I did not know the pilot concerned but from the kind words above he would appear to be one of the good guys. Accidents happen to the best of us.
In thirty three years of flying I have been very fortunate not to have seen a fatal crash, I hope I never see another!
To his friends and family my heart felt sympathy.
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I looked up this thread to try to find what happened to the Hurricane, but only DB6 has described those last moments in objective terms.
To me it looks like an attempt at pull through and then flicking inadvertently - I see it as a "snap" rather than a wing rock. Have heard it said the Hurricane has a crisp stall - is it prone to flick?
John Farley says he knows what happened, will he please enlighten us?
To me it looks like an attempt at pull through and then flicking inadvertently - I see it as a "snap" rather than a wing rock. Have heard it said the Hurricane has a crisp stall - is it prone to flick?
John Farley says he knows what happened, will he please enlighten us?
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'Woodenwonder,' like most others on here you will have to wait for the AAIB report before it can be decided what actually happened. even then it may not be conclusive and speculation is pointless and non helpful.
Your request to JF will go unanswered if I know him, and I do.
Time will tell. Sad as it was.
PPP
Your request to JF will go unanswered if I know him, and I do.
Time will tell. Sad as it was.
PPP