Fareastdriver

Nice show at Leuchers. Good to hear the old Olympus decibels again.

Vulcan Rigger

Sled Dog,

We keep asking for money because we keep on spending it.

Do you think GKN in Portsmouth fixed the tank for free? Do you suppose the haulage company moved the jacks and ground equipment as a favour?

The appeal will help out with the winter service in service 5 years was about the period between Majors so that is the life on a lot of the components. As that is how long it has been since the components were re-installed (doesn't time fly by when you are having fun) they have to come out again to be re-certified.

Company's help us out but we are the charity. Once more this money will be staying in the U.K. economy (and in our industry) it will mean that this expertise is still available if you have a classic jet which needs similar work carrying out.

Each year as our expertise increases and the authorities become more familiar with our capabilities the amount we need to raise is reduced as we can carry out more of the work "in house" and not have to bring in out side agencies.

Winco

VR

People keep asking why you keep pleading for money, NOT because you keep spending it but because your Boss keeps telling us that you have sufficient funds to see you through till the year x, and on every occasion, literally EVERY occasion, he is proved to be completely wrong.

Of course we don't expect kit to be repaired free or stuff moved around for nothing, but we do expect the Chf Exec of this Multi Milliion Pound Fiasco to get his sums right just once in a while!

Great display at Leuchars yesterday by the way.

nooluv

XH 558 flew over my house (Stockton on Tees) on the way back from Leuchars Saturday. Low level approach to EGNV.

Fantastic Sight! The teenager next door came knocking on my door!
Malc did you see the "Stealth Bomber" ?

Explained To Him the type of Aircraft & how I used to watch the original White "Stealth Bombers" Flying over my house ( Stockport) When I was a kid..
Thank You to the people keeping this Aircraft flying..

Now what about Concorde?

robin

Winco is exactly right

A few weeks ago I made the point that the 'pay up or XH558 gets it' appeal just passed the target and yet within a very short time, another appeal for £100k went out as the original appeal appeared not to have allowed for contingency. Now we have another 'please can we have another £350k' appeal for the winter service.

I repeat, the guys who keep the Vulcan going are heros (and heroines) but have not had the best of support from senior management.

What is obvious is that the management of the project have had little success in finding on-going financial support that does not require emotional blackmail. That is my criticism

Vulcan Rigger

Winco,

The budget is about £2m a year, it's not a secret. Experience shows that if you stand up and ask for that amount of money in January you get a good slagging on the internet (pretty much like you do if you ask for £350k) It is also a lot harder to raise £2m to ensure the project can survive for a whole year (which is what they had done just before I joined the trust) than it is to raise enough to get through the next quarter.

I am sure you know (as it has been explained many times before) that it would be illegal for the trust to continue to operate if they do not have the funds to pay the bills. The original appeal this year was for £350k by the end of May which was the operating budget for the Summer, we did not make it. However, there was enough in the bank to cover the operating cost til the end of June. The staff have been on a four week rolling notice since April as when the funds run out we will be the first to go.

I know you have a massive problem with Robert Plemming, I do not know why, perhaps you feel you could do a much better job. For what it is worth having watched him at work for the last two and a bit years I feel that he does give good value for money. I think given his BA in Nuclear Physics it is safe to say that he can do his sums. That is of course in my opinion, which I hope I am entitled to, just as you are entitled to yours.

Glad you enjoyed the display.

Winco

VR
It is no secret that I have a problem with Dr P.
I have met him on several occasions and he is without doubt a charming and personable man and I have nothing against him personally in any way.
The problem is though, that over the past however many years, he has made some extremely bold statements about this project which have, in the main, turned out to be complete rubbish. He has told the British public that there is sufficient money to reach point X and there hasn't been! In any other multi milliion pound organisation he would have been forced to resign, because he got it wrong, so often frankly.
I'm not questioning his ability as a Nuclear Physicist in any way, although I'm really not sure what that has to do with maintaining a 50+ year old Vulcan. Is there some relevance? But even so, that does not automatically make him the right person for this job, and as far as his ability in maths is concerned, then I'll leave that up to you and the rest of us to determine, but I don't think he has been correct too many time in the old 'adding up' side of things - do you?
The time has come (and gone yet again) for Plemng to call it a day and to get someone in from the business world to put the project on a secure finacial footing. Certainly not stumbling from one appeal to another - what sort of a way is that to run anything??
Those of us that are accused of constantly moaning (and I count myself in that) do so because we want to see this project succeed and kept going. The difference is that we have the foresight to see that unless things change at the top and we get someone 'better' in place, 558 will end up grounded forever, or far worse - she will end up living (and flying) in the USA.
As always - 100% support to all the team and those behind the scenes, just sorry I don't share that support for those in the upper management.
Regards

airpolice

I have no idea how well, or otherwise the project is run. I have no objection to the appeals for more cash, that's how the aircraft is funded. I don't feel blackmailed.

What I am concerned about, is that when it runs out of steam, some suppliers will get caught out.

A planned exit strategy would be a better idea. Perhaps the good doctor could explain what this is. In the event of them not getting enough money to continue, and closing the doors, where will the surplus end up?

People donating money now are entitled to know where it will be spent, if not on the Vulcan.

JEM60

How I wish the SOME funding could be found for B.17 'Sally B' which is a much more fitting memorial to thousands upon thousands of US Airmen who lost their lives fighting for this country. The organisation is struggling even more than the Vulcan in raising money, and I, my opinion only, is that the money would be so much better spent on that than the struggling Vulcan, which [I know it kep the peace for many years etc.,] but is not a memorial to people who gave their lives for this country. I stopped with the Vulcan, and switched to 'SallyB' as regards funding. Of course, people are free to spend as they choose, I just feel that it would be more devastating to lose this fine B17 than the Vulcan. I knwo I am not going to be popular, going for my hat and coat.

Vulcan Rigger

Jem,

I quite agree with you that it would be devastating to lose Sally B.

As you say you have transferred your support to Sally and you of course have every right to do that. I wonder how many others go to a show because of the Vulcan effect and then move onto support other stuff? Yes I do support Sally and have made other offers but have not heard anything back from them.

Winco,

Robert believes what he is told' if someone says we'll give you "x" he'll believe them, if that then does not happen is it his fault? His expertise, apart from Nuclear physics, is as CEO of large companies - is that not the business world background you want?

Winco

VR

What I want, is someone with a proven and successful track record!
If, as you suggest, Dr P has that from the other companies where he has been the CEO, then it is even more dissapointing that he can't see his own failings with this project. How long does he want to put it right?
Look, this is not a witch hunt against Pleming. It is a witch hunt against the people at the very top of this project who have demonstrated that they cannot deliver, and it's time for him and them to go. It's not about you, the crew, the techies, the support staff or whoever, it's about those at the top.
The fact that it's Dr P at the very top is unfortunate for him but it's neither here nor there frankly. It wouldn't matter who was in the seat, you, me, even Branson. The fact remains that this project staggers from one crisis to another, and has done for many years now and that is wrong!
You cannot keep blaming someone else for ever VR.

Vulcan Rigger

The thing is though, it does keep on staggering doesn't it?

Must be so annoying for you that time after time the public and the likes of Eddie Forester keep on coming through at the last moment with just enough cash to push us on to the next funding crisis!

Right from the start all we have heard is "they will never do it" and "they can't keep on doing that."

It's almost part of the buzz that we keep 558 going despite the difficulties and the crisis. As it says on the intake blanks "Don't let me die, I want to fly."

I don't think Robert blames anyone else, he explains why we have problems. Could you have predicted the banking crisis? Did you know that a 40 year old tank bank had a split in it, or that a 30 year old hyd pump would throw a wobbly? Do you think Branson would have known?

Winco

"Must be so annoying for you that time after time the public and the likes of Eddie Forester keep on coming through at the last moment with just enough cash to push us on to the next funding crisis!"

What a stupid and unnecesary thing for you to say VR, you've just lost all the respect I had for you. Why do you think it would annoy me? On the contrary, I'm deligted that it keeps getting funded even after all the threats and blackmailing that goes on, but it doesn't make it right.

I couldn't have predicted the banking crisis, nor could Branson but I think between us we might have foreseen that fuel tanks could and would leak and that hydraulic pumps might throw a wobbly. Maybe thats why BA and Virgin have plans in place for such events. Maybe it's because their chf execs have a bit on forsight perhaps?? Just a thought.

Still, if thats the way you want it then so be it - I'm not the one on a 4 week rolling notice thank God

Vulcan Rigger

The fuel tank we had repaired was the last 2 Stbd. The original cure date was June 1962 and it had been overhauled by St Athan in 1990.

It had then spent 17 years in a box as part of the war stock. It was fitted in 2007 as part of the Bruntingthorpe major replacing a tank which had been fitted since the 1980 St Athan major (the only tank from the 1980 major which needed to be replaced.) It was the last tank left in the war stock, if we need to replace any more they will have to be made with a huge lead time. We could spend thousands of pounds having a full set of tanks made up which would then sit on a shelf and never be used.

We have spare hyd pumps which are certified and ready to fit, the lead time on the hyd snag was not the pump it was the logistics of getting the ground equipment in place and getting some hangar space organised and audited (just because it is a former Vulcan hangar being used for aircraft maintenance does not mean it is still suitable for our needs)

So we do have a "bit of foresight" we do not have the resources that BA and Virgin have (did BA not make a huge loss a couple of years ago because they did not foresee the ash cloud?)

LookingNorth

I stopped donating after the Waddo permit to fly fiasco but have been impressed by how many people continue to sink their hard-earned into the project. I feel Winco has a point in that some contingency should have been made. Obviously not for specific failures, as the list is long and horrifying, but surely it would make sense to budget for skipping several displays? Running on the ragged edge all the time can't be any fun.

Incidentally on the subject of ragged edges, if a major bit of work like the fuel tank fix or hyd fix had been carried out in RAF service, wouldn't there have been a test flight afterwards?

Fareastdriver

No. Why should they?

Claresholm57

The reaction of the late Stafford Coulson, who was CO of Scampton when 617 squadron reformed with Vulcans and who had loved flying them, when he heard about the concept of getting old XH 558 back in the air was to say that it was unaffordable. He knew what he was talking about.

Sir George Cayley

Actually the Banking Crisis was spotted in advance but the people who stood up were scoffed at. There'll be a story on the internet somewhere; one was an American economist if memory serves.

As for the Vulcan, I'm mystified as to why there are people who don't get their hands dirty. If what I hear about the money being pulled out of the Trust by the CEO is true, then they should look for someone better and cheaper.

There's probably someone on here with the acumen to run the show.

Lastly, would a plan B be to stop flying but maintain it in taxying condition?

SGC

airpolice

Go on Sir George, tell us more.

A2QFI

At the risk of seeming pedantic it was not unaffordable - it has been and still is flying SFAIK. It is unsustainable, or appears to be.