Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)
Staff Cadets in the '60s
As a staff cadet one quickly realised that there was no (official) issue of flying clothing. We pestered the Equipment Officer for anything to protect our uniforms but he informed us that flying clothing was only issued to Categorised Instructors - C Cat and above. The only things he did manage to supply us with was a new pair of denims and a new (right size) pair of Wellington boots, and that was it!
We did a search of the Government Surplus stores and managed to buy some rubber buttoned flying suits from the '50s. At least that set us apart from the course cadets, and we looked the part, we thought!
After a while the Eqpt Officer softened and took pity on us as he realised we were a good asset to the gliding school and in it for the long run. When categorised instructors left and if he managed to get their flying clothing back they would eventually be "issued" to us. It did not matter to us that they were second hand, we just felt we had made the grade and looked like the other instructors, albeit a bit shabbier!
We spent many a night in the barrack room at Kenley trying to return these second hand boots into pristine condition - see picture!!
Bit sad really to spend time on the boots when we could have been in the NAAFI, or even on our motor bikes down to Brighton!
We did a search of the Government Surplus stores and managed to buy some rubber buttoned flying suits from the '50s. At least that set us apart from the course cadets, and we looked the part, we thought!
After a while the Eqpt Officer softened and took pity on us as he realised we were a good asset to the gliding school and in it for the long run. When categorised instructors left and if he managed to get their flying clothing back they would eventually be "issued" to us. It did not matter to us that they were second hand, we just felt we had made the grade and looked like the other instructors, albeit a bit shabbier!
We spent many a night in the barrack room at Kenley trying to return these second hand boots into pristine condition - see picture!!
Bit sad really to spend time on the boots when we could have been in the NAAFI, or even on our motor bikes down to Brighton!
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Wow - thanks LR
I feel really old now - but I remember the trips in the Barge that day - you were going to fly my T31 but it wasn't insured I seem to recall.........
I only threw that shirt away a few years ago - and I'm still wearing the desert wellies.........
Merry Xmas BTW.............
Arc
I feel really old now - but I remember the trips in the Barge that day - you were going to fly my T31 but it wasn't insured I seem to recall.........
I only threw that shirt away a few years ago - and I'm still wearing the desert wellies.........
Merry Xmas BTW.............
Arc
Cleaning the boots
Ah i see where all the boots went (to those with motorbikes) DJN & DB included.AS for working 'HARD' i see that you could afford bus and train fares unlike those of us who hitch-hiked and walked to Kenley. On one notable occaision an elderly Ford pop stopped at the level crossing and i hopped in.
It turned out to be one BK (of Paynes Poppet fame) when he stopped outside 450 HQ (both occupants chocking) the fumes inside the wreck had transformed it into an IFR simulator (with real smoke).
Several years later the CO expelled it from the hangar and we were charged to take it to the dump. It got 'fired' soon after and then the bulldozer finished it off. It is now down with the Siskins and Bulldogs about 20 feet down.
In practice those boots were not really suited to our machines and i preferred what were known as plimsolls,and found out that one could get a lightweight F Suit from the Station stores if you bothered to ask,and had something to swap.
Getting something to 'exchange' was a challenge but i found some torn and paint covered 'suit-bits' on the dump (old MT section rags) made an arm and leg bit look presentable and popped it into a suitable poly bag.
The man behind the counter smiled,and just threw it onto a pile behind him and 'hey presto' i had a FS.He also threw in a set of issue sunglasses and sent me away. As you said Frelon the Gliding was only part of the adventure.
Looking at those boots you will notice that they are genuine 'Evading' ones designed so that the wide bits could be removed (if shot down) thereby making the wearers less noticeable. The only evading those did were to the 'Roundabout cafe' in Caterham.
It turned out to be one BK (of Paynes Poppet fame) when he stopped outside 450 HQ (both occupants chocking) the fumes inside the wreck had transformed it into an IFR simulator (with real smoke).
Several years later the CO expelled it from the hangar and we were charged to take it to the dump. It got 'fired' soon after and then the bulldozer finished it off. It is now down with the Siskins and Bulldogs about 20 feet down.
In practice those boots were not really suited to our machines and i preferred what were known as plimsolls,and found out that one could get a lightweight F Suit from the Station stores if you bothered to ask,and had something to swap.
Getting something to 'exchange' was a challenge but i found some torn and paint covered 'suit-bits' on the dump (old MT section rags) made an arm and leg bit look presentable and popped it into a suitable poly bag.
The man behind the counter smiled,and just threw it onto a pile behind him and 'hey presto' i had a FS.He also threw in a set of issue sunglasses and sent me away. As you said Frelon the Gliding was only part of the adventure.
Looking at those boots you will notice that they are genuine 'Evading' ones designed so that the wide bits could be removed (if shot down) thereby making the wearers less noticeable. The only evading those did were to the 'Roundabout cafe' in Caterham.
Last edited by POBJOY; 17th Dec 2012 at 21:17.
Found these on a website. All taken at Turnhouse (I think).
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
New Stuff - as December 2012
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I like the "only slightly damaged" claim in the above newspaper article. I suspect that even the reporter has his doubts - well who needs a fin & rudder and half a wing? It'll polish out
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Iwas there
Hi I too remember Peter Vine from 273 sqdn. The guy who deliberately stalled was called (Steve?) Fixter. A lovely guy but what a nutter. When I went solo in 1972 or 1973 I was less than 7 stones (minimum weight) Bill Tyson went to the steel factory nearby and got two sandbags full of steel shot and strapped them in to the passenger seat in order to bring me above the minimum weight. No mention of health and safety in those days. When it was time to land after my circuit I couldnt bring the sedburgh down so I had to use full spoilers and still managed to overshoot the landing field. I`ll never forget the looks on those sheeps eyes as I ploughed through them. Happy days.
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Brian Lamb
Regrettably Brian Lamb died of Cancer Middle of this year (2012). Brian was a gentleman and well respected by his piers and colleagues. Brian was an excellent painter and did a painting of the Tucano with Ghost outlines of the Air Cadet fleet in the clouds behind. The original painting hangs in the Officers mess at RAF Linton on Ouse. I would copy a picture of it on this website but do not know how to do it.
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So sorry to hear about Brian. What a great instructor, and nice bloke.
On the same sad subject, some of you may remember the Boss of 613 at RAF Halton in the late 70s and throughout the 80s, Sqn. Ldr. Malcolm Marshall, who died in the late summer of 2012.
Malcolm was, literally, larger than life. I have happy memories of taking off on a 'weather check' at 8am with Malcolm. I wondered how we would clear the trees, with a rate-of-climb of a couple of hundred fpm! At 5,000' in January, freezing to death in the Venture, Malcolm would talk over the intercom about the view, the experience of being removed from Earth, the wonder and privilege of being there. The guy was a poet.
A disciplinarian, but a great friend. It's his love of flight that remains with me.
On the same sad subject, some of you may remember the Boss of 613 at RAF Halton in the late 70s and throughout the 80s, Sqn. Ldr. Malcolm Marshall, who died in the late summer of 2012.
Malcolm was, literally, larger than life. I have happy memories of taking off on a 'weather check' at 8am with Malcolm. I wondered how we would clear the trees, with a rate-of-climb of a couple of hundred fpm! At 5,000' in January, freezing to death in the Venture, Malcolm would talk over the intercom about the view, the experience of being removed from Earth, the wonder and privilege of being there. The guy was a poet.
A disciplinarian, but a great friend. It's his love of flight that remains with me.
Last edited by Aileron Drag; 26th Dec 2012 at 18:09.
Sad to hear Malcolm has gone. Another great character lost, he'd started at White Waltham originally where he was an Air Traffic Controller - Waltham was RAF and had civilians in its ATC unit - and was instrumental in the formation of 612 VGS there, initially as HQAC Glider Flight (Waltham was HQAC until the RAF moved out in about '72), then as a D/F of 613, then it became a VGS in its own right.
Brian Lamb's Tucano painting, referred to above by Burtonwood Aviator:
Last edited by India Four Two; 31st Dec 2012 at 10:09.
In case anyone missed it, there is a link to a home movie of Slingsby gliders in Aden here:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...al-videos.html
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...al-videos.html
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Colour Scheme Help
I wonder if I can tap into someone's memory here. I had my first glider flights when I was a 14 year old ATC cadet with 2322 (Dowty) squadron in early 1964 this was at South Cerney and the gliders were the T21 Sedburgh and the T31 Tandem Tutor.
I cannot remember the serials of course but distinctly remember the bold black ATC CADETS lettering on the fuselage and I am convinced that the aircraft were Silver and Dayglo and according to research online as far as I can ascertain, we were most likely to have been flown by pilots from 625 VGS.
625 VGS Homepage
On trawling through their website, I was delighted to find that both the colour schemes and the serials are presented for me but it states that the Silver and Dayglo replaced the Silver and Yellow in 1967.
Could this be a possible typo on the 625 website as It was definitely 1964 that I flew in both of the above gliders and am convinced that all the gliders we flew in were Silver/Dayglo. I don't suppose anyone might have any South Cerney photos or memories of the period to clarify this for me.
Secondly, the application of the Dayglo areas on ATC gliders do seem to have several variances in different parts of the country from photos I have seen. Sometimes Dayglo wing tips, others had Dayglo bars chordwise, some had Silver rudders whereas some had Dayglo etc etc. So is there a definitive reference anywhere on the colour schemes used by the RAF for the ATC?
It would be nice to build a couple of small scale models of each of these and to get the correct markings would be great so any information would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks
BrianG (Dorset UK)
I cannot remember the serials of course but distinctly remember the bold black ATC CADETS lettering on the fuselage and I am convinced that the aircraft were Silver and Dayglo and according to research online as far as I can ascertain, we were most likely to have been flown by pilots from 625 VGS.
625 VGS Homepage
On trawling through their website, I was delighted to find that both the colour schemes and the serials are presented for me but it states that the Silver and Dayglo replaced the Silver and Yellow in 1967.
Could this be a possible typo on the 625 website as It was definitely 1964 that I flew in both of the above gliders and am convinced that all the gliders we flew in were Silver/Dayglo. I don't suppose anyone might have any South Cerney photos or memories of the period to clarify this for me.
Secondly, the application of the Dayglo areas on ATC gliders do seem to have several variances in different parts of the country from photos I have seen. Sometimes Dayglo wing tips, others had Dayglo bars chordwise, some had Silver rudders whereas some had Dayglo etc etc. So is there a definitive reference anywhere on the colour schemes used by the RAF for the ATC?
It would be nice to build a couple of small scale models of each of these and to get the correct markings would be great so any information would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks
BrianG (Dorset UK)
Sad to report another one gone.
Reg Ford, late of 613 VGS Halton and contributor to these pages as 'Honey Monster', died of a heart attack on 31 Dec 2012. He had been ill for some time causing his premature retirement as an Instructor at the College of Air Traffic Services, Hurn.
Reg Ford, late of 613 VGS Halton and contributor to these pages as 'Honey Monster', died of a heart attack on 31 Dec 2012. He had been ill for some time causing his premature retirement as an Instructor at the College of Air Traffic Services, Hurn.
Last edited by chevvron; 27th Jan 2013 at 11:23.
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625 vgs South Cerney
Hi there this is my first post on this site so please forgive me if i do not quite get things as they should be.
My first flight at South Cerny was in 1966 and i went solo in August 1968 and then served as a staff cadet and instuctor for many years.
All of my memories and old slides confirm that the gliders were indeed in silver and dayglow red, I am looking to put some photos on the site as soon as i can get them scanned.
I have followed this site for several months and it is great to see 625 get a mention.
Terry C.
My first flight at South Cerny was in 1966 and i went solo in August 1968 and then served as a staff cadet and instuctor for many years.
All of my memories and old slides confirm that the gliders were indeed in silver and dayglow red, I am looking to put some photos on the site as soon as i can get them scanned.
I have followed this site for several months and it is great to see 625 get a mention.
Terry C.
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The Cadet MK3 and 615 GS at Kenley
HI guys, I just found this thread while googling for a register of all Slingsby T31's produced. I have enjoyed reading my way through all 44 pages of the thread and being taken back to my days as a cadet at 450 Sqdn at Kenley from 1963 until being thrown out when I reached 21 years of age (Cadet WO). I did my gliding course over many weekends in 1964, going solo one month after my 16th birthday. I was surprised (and delighted) to come across the photos posted by longer ron on 16th Dec 11 on page 40 from 'The Gliding Book' The cadet 'being briefed before going solo' by Alex Watson is me! I had actuall done all three solo flights some time before this. I remembered someone shouting 'ere, take his hat orf' but Mr Watson wanted it left on, so on it stayed. I still have my very beaten up 3822 and it reveals that I had training flights with Mr Brown, Mr Tinkler, Mr Munt and Mr Belles. I can't remember their first names now (not recorded in my log). I can only remember a couple of the Staff Cadets names now, David Taylor and P.C - (following the rules here by not using the name - initials only, pobjoy, this must be you - there is no hiding place!) we were all in 450 at the time and I remember doing slides and 360's in a certain black VW up the runway in the snow. I lived in Whytleafe in the 1950's/1960's and as our house was right under the flight path to the main runway I was brought up on the sounds of Ansons, Chipmunks and the occasional Harvard. I remember the Lincon going in to Kenley plus a Meteor which ended up on its nose in the middle of the 'field if I remember right. I have a propellor that I rescued from the airfield dump - from a Chipmunk, stamped For Use on Gipsy Mark Mk10. Happy times back then which led me on to a career in the Airlines as a Licensed Engineer and sometimes flying spanner. Retired now, I hope to go back to Gliding, had an afternoons flying with Surrey Hills GC last year which rekindled the interest. Great thread, great recollections and photos, incidently.....how much would a 'civvy' T31 cost now?
Mike .G
Mike .G
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All of my memories and old slides confirm that the gliders were indeed in silver and dayglow red, I am looking to put some photos on the site as soon as i can get them scanned.
Regards
BrianG (Dorset UK)
Kenley Meteor
Ho FS i think the 'Meteor' may have actually been a Vatour Bomber taking part in in the Arc to Arch race circa 1959.
This mistook Kenley for BH and trundled through the fence onto the common (flew out after minor repairs)
The Beetle eventually performed a slow roll at the end of the main runway (no snow on that day) and had a flat roof from then on and much head scratching from the MOT testers. (one entered via window opening as door jammed).
Glad you maintained the 'scrounging' from the dump,and became an LAE.
450 is now the KENLEY Squadron (was Caterham & Warlingham) in our days. My last CO Eric only passed away a couple of years ago;great guy and gave me his wartime flying helmet which went with me to the TC at Redhill. There are a couple of T31's at Eaglescott (hanging from the roof),and i have a tug aircraft further west.
This mistook Kenley for BH and trundled through the fence onto the common (flew out after minor repairs)
The Beetle eventually performed a slow roll at the end of the main runway (no snow on that day) and had a flat roof from then on and much head scratching from the MOT testers. (one entered via window opening as door jammed).
Glad you maintained the 'scrounging' from the dump,and became an LAE.
450 is now the KENLEY Squadron (was Caterham & Warlingham) in our days. My last CO Eric only passed away a couple of years ago;great guy and gave me his wartime flying helmet which went with me to the TC at Redhill. There are a couple of T31's at Eaglescott (hanging from the roof),and i have a tug aircraft further west.
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Cost of "civvy" T31 - very much depends on condition, anything from zero to probably a couple of grand. The trailer to keep it in would cost more than the glider.
Having said that, there are some beautiful T31's around, which have been restored regardless of effort and final worth and which are unlikely to appear on the market.
T21's (Sedberghs) have gone through the "can't give them away" phase - the MoD sold them off for £500 - £750 in the 1980's (which was about what they paid for them new!). They are now very much appreciated in the vintage gliding movement and a half decent one can be sold for 5 to 7 thousand. A 21 will soar much better than a 31 and the side by side seating far more sociable. A good closed trailer for it would cost another 5 to 7 thousand though!
Again a few examples have been restored to "better than new" condition (mainly in Holland and Germany curiously enough)
Having said that, there are some beautiful T31's around, which have been restored regardless of effort and final worth and which are unlikely to appear on the market.
T21's (Sedberghs) have gone through the "can't give them away" phase - the MoD sold them off for £500 - £750 in the 1980's (which was about what they paid for them new!). They are now very much appreciated in the vintage gliding movement and a half decent one can be sold for 5 to 7 thousand. A 21 will soar much better than a 31 and the side by side seating far more sociable. A good closed trailer for it would cost another 5 to 7 thousand though!
Again a few examples have been restored to "better than new" condition (mainly in Holland and Germany curiously enough)