Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)

[Dark Side1]

635VGS temporary/permanent re location

Still going strong, but moved from Burtonwood then to Samlesbury now to York.. hopefully going back to the north west if we can get a new airfield..

[nimbus145]

Incidentally, I notice that XA310 is being flown solo without a ballast weight in the tail.

This is largely down to solo pilot weight. A pilot flying solo at minimum front cockpit weight and the tail weight fitted will have a c of g towards the aft limit. A heavy solo pilot will definitely need the tail weight as the c of g will be forward and the pilot finds himself with a constant load on the stick. The guy flying in this picture was very much middle of the road so could have gone either with or without the weight. With the glider often flying dual and having no weight fitted we only fit it if necessary to avoid constantly handling a large chunk of metal over some very delicate fabric!!
Hope this solves the curiosity and I have to say a very good spot!!!

[Frelon]

Mk III with tail weight

We never had them when we were young. But of course we were all much lighter in those days!

I seem to remember them coming in as a mod in the early 70s.

[Dave Gittins]

I was at Burtonwood in late 1969 and 1970 and although all records (other than my BGA A&B crtificates) have been long since lost reckon I probably soloed in around Jan or Feb 1970, just before my 17th birthday.

My main recollection is that it was a freezing cold winter and I had 2 pairs of thick socks and ATC boots and could feel nothing through my feet thus the red string tied on the pitot spent little time pointing directly back at me and we traversed the sky somewhat crabwise.

In that respect things haven't changed much

[603DX]

Small points about the BGA certificates. Mine are dated 14th August 1957, and I have always assumed that was the date of qualification, as I recall the one-week course at 613 VGS was in August of that year. Is this right?

The little green booklet containing them has on the inside of the front page the certificate number 24184 of the Royal Aero Club, with the signature below it of the President, Lord Brabazon of Tara. The 'A' and 'B' certificates have the signature of Yvonne Bonham, Secretary of the BGA. I guess that both signatures are simply facsimiles of some kind, but is this the case, or were they actual 'wet' signatures? Anyone know?

[Dave Gittins]

Mine (nt as old as yours dated 1970) is tucked in the back of my current JAR license with the Orville and Wilbur credit card, so I'll look over it at the weeknd and get back on Sunday.

[mpjswart]

Looking for a fine T21 Sedbergh

I'm looking for a airworthy T21 Sedbergh.
I used to fly a lot in this one but yhere have been some problems with the syndicate it belongs to.
I figured it's time to buy my own.

I hope and be very grateful if anyone can help me along the way.

Many thanks

Martijn

[JW411]

603DX:

Well, I qualified just before you on 04.07.57 and my "A" and "B" was issued (No.23584) on 05.07.57. The signatures of Lord Brabazon of Tara and Yvonne Bonham look like rubber stamps as does the "C" and "Silver C" stamps by Frances Leighton.

The first "genuine signature" appears to be Naomi Christy on my "Gold".

[seagull617]

617 Gliding School

I think 617 GS was based at RAF Hornchurch before moving to Hendon in the early 60's. I did my A&B at Hendon in 1965, followed by being accepted as a staff cadet then got the advanced proficiency and 'C' badge while at Hendon. We moved to RAF Bovingdon in 1967/8 and I became a C/I and 'C' cat. We trialled flying at Manston by holding initially a summer camp during June 1970, then moved the school down to Manston in the winter of 70/71. I moved with them and retired from 617 (and from England) in late 73 as an 'A2' cat. Now live in New Zealand. Interestingly back at Hendon Jack Hammond was our CFI. I first flew with Jack in May 65 when he checked me for first solo, my last flight with Jack was in August 73 when he was a 'C' cat and I was the A2 checking him out. Sort of completed the circle. Gilly.

[midnight retired]

631 Gliding School

I have been asked by Flt Lt Bill Grey, a former OC 631 GS, to pass on his compliments to Staff and Cadets. Bill has read with great interest copies of the many threads on this subject which has evoked such happy memories to so many.
On the specific subject of WB 927 he would like to respectfully point out that this was really his !! In fact when he did eventually emerge from the pile of admin onto the airfield we dutifully made this delightful Glider available for Bill. It did fly and soar better than the rest,once that is you recognised the gain achieved by having a delicate touch like a midwife on the controls.
It was Bill who discovered the reason for WB927 being different in that it had been hand built by Slingsby as a prototype before the mass production jigs used for the fleet that followed.The angle of incidence of the tailplane ,for example , was not set by jigs but the by the careful insertion of a graduated shim ,and all modifications/repairs involved Slingsby rather than St Athan ,buts thats another story.

[WE992]

WB927

MR

Are you sure that 927 was hand built? I notice that the reigstrations WB919 - 926 exist of which at least 4 of these gliders were delivered prior to 927 being delivered on 5/7/49.

[midnight retired]

WB 927

The history behind WB 927 is not in my personal domain and I will need to defer to Bill Grey for the details ,please be patient while I make contact with him.

[Biggles of 266]

XE799

XE799 is now under new management, and we are shortly to embark on her restoration to flying condition.

It was evidently the T31 in which Group Captain Johnnie Johnson went solo in a glider, though there is some confusion over the date.

The 644 VGS web site states:
"In 1948 a new Gliding School, No 44, was formed at Cottesmore in Rutland where the Station Commander, Group Captain JE Johnson DSO DFC (later Air Vice Marshall Johnson CB CBE) became a frequent visitor to the School making his first solo in a Cadet Mk3 XE799 on July 22 1953"

Unfortunately XE799 was not delivered to te RAF until 11.1.1954, so something is wrong, especially as Johnson did not become a Group Captain until 1.1.55, and became Officer Commanding, RAF Cottesmore on 28 Oct 1957.

The aircraft was also, retained at Syerston as 8943M as a spares airframe for the example now on display at Hendon XA302.

I would be most interested if anybody has any recollections, or photographs or dates of the JJ solo, or any recollections of this particular glider.

What we know so far.
XE799 Slingsby T.31B Cadet TX.3 (912)
11.1.54 Delivered to RAF (reportedly flown by Group Captain J E Johnson DSO DFC at Cottesmore on 22.7.53)
44 Gliding School, Cottesmore
1954 29 Gliding School, Spitalgate
1955 644 Gliding School, Spitalgate
1974 Air Cadet Central Gliding School (Detachment), Swanton Morley
1975 Air Cadet Central Gliding School, Syerston, tail code "R"
1984 Store, Syerston
1987 ACCGS, preserved at Syerston as 8943M
1996 RAFGSA, Syerston
2004 Boulton Paul Association, Wolverhampton

Currently she is in totally original condition, having not been flown since leaving Syerston. We intend a very sympathetic restoration indeed. More along the lines of preservation for the long term.
Guy

[longer ron]

I did my first solo in 799 on 25/6/69 at 644 GS Spitalgate on a weekend course,great to see she is going to be restored,where is she going to be based ? by PM if you like.
Does anybody have any archive photos of 799 or 644 late 60's/early 70's ??

[Biggles of 266]

XE799

She is owned by a syndicate of members of the T31M club (Now the T31 Club) and will be operated in Surrey and Hampshire.
She is totally 'safe' and under no threat of conversion, in fact quite the opposite. She will be restored to RAF spec with the utmost care.

As owners of 'Converted' T31's, we are T31 glider enthsiasts as well, and comitted to ensuring that no further T31's are converted. There are a number of unloved, part completed, or un airworthy conversions around already, so no need to deplete the dwindling stock of gliders any further.

This thread is a fantastic resource for sharing pictures of ATC in the wood era. Could I make a plea, for you all, if you have not so far, to dig out those photos and share them here, before your offspring put them in the wheelie bin, with the comment, "Oh just bin that lot, I think it is just Dad's pictures of old gliders"!

If anybody needs help converting pictures to digital format for posting, I would be more than happy to assist, so just PM me.
Guy

[WE992]

There is a fine colour photo of a T.21 at the following link:

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1203374

[midnight retired]

Sedbergh WB 927

Bill Grey has confirmed that WB 927 was one of 4 Sedbergh"s that was handbuilt by Slingsby.
Hope that this helps clarify the query ?

[astir 8]

Slightly puzzled how a Sedbergh could be anything other than handbuilt! (Sorry - just had a vision of them being chewed from the solid by trained termites!)

Also (anorak hat on) WB 920 (Slingsby serial 559) seems to have been the first of the ATC order. WB 927 was serial 590 so I'm curious about this notion of a special build of 4 units in the middle of what for Slingsby would have been a mass production run (hat off)

[T-21]

T-31 XE799 was at Spitalgate in 1968/9 in dayglo orange/silver finish with a dark blue rudder and fleet number 3(dayglo on rudder) with the Gliding Centre. XA293 had a blue/red chequered rudder. The current Hendon machine XA302 was also at Spitalgate at this time with red rudder and fleet No 4.

There were four privately built T-21's none saw ATC service. WB974 to WB993 were built by Martin Hearn.

[Biggles of 266]

XE799

You either have an extraordinary memory, or you are looking at a picture?
If so any chance of a copy?
Otherwise, what is your secret, is it eating carrots, or spinach?
Guy