Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)
Great pictures Andy. Especially of the Wild Winch! Brings back memories of being the MT member at FGC. God knows how many hours I spent working on our two.
I see this one has the narrow drum conversion, The originals had the wide drums and the phospher bronze scroll gears as per the original 1940 specification. Of course, barrage ballons weren't designed to be launched and recovered vertically at 60 knots, so the orignal winches had a few problems launching gliders! The narrow drums were better but had the nasty habit of shooting small pieces of cable at you if the cable broke in front of the rollers. I still have a scar on my chin from a Wild winch.
Sad isn't it. Reminiscing about winches!
I see this one has the narrow drum conversion, The originals had the wide drums and the phospher bronze scroll gears as per the original 1940 specification. Of course, barrage ballons weren't designed to be launched and recovered vertically at 60 knots, so the orignal winches had a few problems launching gliders! The narrow drums were better but had the nasty habit of shooting small pieces of cable at you if the cable broke in front of the rollers. I still have a scar on my chin from a Wild winch.
Sad isn't it. Reminiscing about winches!
When I joined the RAFGSA in 1963 we had two Wild winches in the club still complete with the original Ford V8 petrol engines. We eventually managed to squeeze BMC 5.6 diesels into them. The big weak point was indeed the phosphor bronze scroll bar. Every time they got damaged and when heat was applied during the healing process, they became more and more banana like and therefore failed faster and faster.
New ones were impossible to sources until one day, one of our elder members discovered that the scroll bar was exactly the same as that to be found in wartime invasion barges and managed to get his hands on half a dozen still in the greasy wrappings from a scrappie in Bedfordshire.
What a discovery!
New ones were impossible to sources until one day, one of our elder members discovered that the scroll bar was exactly the same as that to be found in wartime invasion barges and managed to get his hands on half a dozen still in the greasy wrappings from a scrappie in Bedfordshire.
What a discovery!
Last edited by JW411; 21st Oct 2009 at 15:45.
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Speechless
The Wilde Winches on VGS weren't from Barrage balloons - they were purpose made winches for the VGS and actually called Eagle winches.
The wilde winch gets it's name from the Wilde scroll gears that feed the cable across the drums as far as I am aware (Wilde being the guy who designed it I think)
Arc
The Wilde Winches on VGS weren't from Barrage balloons - they were purpose made winches for the VGS and actually called Eagle winches.
The wilde winch gets it's name from the Wilde scroll gears that feed the cable across the drums as far as I am aware (Wilde being the guy who designed it I think)
Arc
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To clear this up, the VGS winches were Eagle twin drum winches with scroll gear.
The winch in the pic came from the GSA(not sure which club) and as far as I'm aware was always a single drum jobby. It's rumured to have been converted from a barrage balloon winch.
Incidentally, I found a job lot of rollers in a wire cage at Shepards surplus near Leominster years ago, but didn't know anyone with a winch to suit them so left them there..
The winch in the pic came from the GSA(not sure which club) and as far as I'm aware was always a single drum jobby. It's rumured to have been converted from a barrage balloon winch.
Incidentally, I found a job lot of rollers in a wire cage at Shepards surplus near Leominster years ago, but didn't know anyone with a winch to suit them so left them there..
The winch in the pic came from the GSA(not sure which club) and as far as I'm aware was always a single drum jobby. It's rumured to have been converted from a barrage balloon winch.
I ended up with very fast reactions to save untangling it.
Trev
At Halton in the mid 60s, 613 had 3 twin drum Wildes with 6 cyl Bedford petrol engines (same as in RAF Bedford coaches) plus the RAF Halton Glider Flight had two single drum Wildes which had metal plates saying they were ballooon winches and which had sidevalve (flathead) Ford V-8s. These winches were often shared between the two gliding operations as were the aircraft. This gave a total of 8 cables if all winches were 'S', hence if there was a week long course in progress, at weekends we would operate 2 separate launch points each with 4 cables; one for the course and the other for AEG plus any weekend proficiency cadets. As only one cable could be used at a time, only one winch driver per line was required, jumping backwards and forwards between winches. The Landrovers used for cable recovery easily coped with 4 cables, but if one cable fell off due to the 'weak link' breaking, it invariably wrapped itself round the adjacent cable, and that could take hours to sort out!!
Incidentally, I notice that XA310 is being flown solo without a ballast weight in the tail.
Incidentally, I notice that XA310 is being flown solo without a ballast weight in the tail.
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613 had the balloon winches first, 'cos, as a 17 year old Staff Cadet, it was my job to DI them and tow them out to their launch positions.
Well known to me, as I had winch failure on my first solo at about 350 feet. 'S' turned it to a safe touchdown, but it sure got my attention!!!
The twin drum ones were just coming in when I left, but I remember good times with the Duncombe twins, Jacko Jackson, Phil Plows, Ken Bayliss et al. Great days.
Well known to me, as I had winch failure on my first solo at about 350 feet. 'S' turned it to a safe touchdown, but it sure got my attention!!!
The twin drum ones were just coming in when I left, but I remember good times with the Duncombe twins, Jacko Jackson, Phil Plows, Ken Bayliss et al. Great days.
621andy and Arclite01
The twin drum Eagle winches (with Bedford engines) were introduced to the Air Cadet organisation in the late 50s/early 60s. Before our twin drum winches arrived our gliding school (not VGS in those days) had three single drum Wild winches, with Ford V8 engines, which were renowned for fan blades flying off at full throttle! What a sight and what a sound!
It was a pity to see them go!!!
The twin drum Eagle winches (with Bedford engines) were introduced to the Air Cadet organisation in the late 50s/early 60s. Before our twin drum winches arrived our gliding school (not VGS in those days) had three single drum Wild winches, with Ford V8 engines, which were renowned for fan blades flying off at full throttle! What a sight and what a sound!
It was a pity to see them go!!!
Last edited by Frelon; 22nd Oct 2009 at 15:52.
JEM60: I remember all the names you mention, plus others like Fred Fermor and Pete Knapman.
Mike Duncombe; did my first three flights (local area, primary effects, further effects)
Paul Duncombe; my final day did some revision, then handed me over to:
Jacko; who checked me out for first solo.
Phil Plows; I was winch driving one day and was sent to the launch point to fly; Phil was in charge and said 'I won't bother with a check ride, as far as I'm concerned you're a P1 as from now'.
Ken Bayliss; did 5 trips with him in a Sedburgh one day in very gusty weather; after every trip I was hoping he'd take someone else; after the 5th one he told me to stay in as usual (we always tried to spot land) then came back with a Mk3 solo weight and a very small cadet and said 'nice safe flying in these conditions, so now you can take your first air experience cadet'!
I joined 613 as a Staff cadet in late '64 having just completed my proficiency course; I well remember DI-ing the winches then towing them out; I even managed to jacknife one by towing it with a Landrover and doing a rather tight turn when its inertia took over.
Mike Duncombe; did my first three flights (local area, primary effects, further effects)
Paul Duncombe; my final day did some revision, then handed me over to:
Jacko; who checked me out for first solo.
Phil Plows; I was winch driving one day and was sent to the launch point to fly; Phil was in charge and said 'I won't bother with a check ride, as far as I'm concerned you're a P1 as from now'.
Ken Bayliss; did 5 trips with him in a Sedburgh one day in very gusty weather; after every trip I was hoping he'd take someone else; after the 5th one he told me to stay in as usual (we always tried to spot land) then came back with a Mk3 solo weight and a very small cadet and said 'nice safe flying in these conditions, so now you can take your first air experience cadet'!
I joined 613 as a Staff cadet in late '64 having just completed my proficiency course; I well remember DI-ing the winches then towing them out; I even managed to jacknife one by towing it with a Landrover and doing a rather tight turn when its inertia took over.
Last edited by chevvron; 22nd Oct 2009 at 13:21.
Dan Winterland:
You do not know what you have started!
I am interested in the references to "Wilde" winches which have crept into the conversation (as opposed to the "Wild" winches that we had in the RAFGSA. Perhaps the Air Cadets organisation were a bit posher than we were and so were therefore entitled to have an "e" on the end of "Wild".
Our Wild winches were definitely single drum ex-balloon winches. One was originally mounted on a Bedford QL chassis (later we swopped it on to a wartime Austin chassis) and the other was on a 1940s Bedford chassis.
I have just been on a website (Welcome to the Balloon Barrage Reunion Club Website) which tells me that the "Wild" winch unit was made by M.B.Wild & Co of Birmingham who were still in business in the 1980s.
It also tells me that said company made a 4-wheel trailer winch called an "Eagle" trailer.
I hope that answers a few questions.
You do not know what you have started!
I am interested in the references to "Wilde" winches which have crept into the conversation (as opposed to the "Wild" winches that we had in the RAFGSA. Perhaps the Air Cadets organisation were a bit posher than we were and so were therefore entitled to have an "e" on the end of "Wild".
Our Wild winches were definitely single drum ex-balloon winches. One was originally mounted on a Bedford QL chassis (later we swopped it on to a wartime Austin chassis) and the other was on a 1940s Bedford chassis.
I have just been on a website (Welcome to the Balloon Barrage Reunion Club Website) which tells me that the "Wild" winch unit was made by M.B.Wild & Co of Birmingham who were still in business in the 1980s.
It also tells me that said company made a 4-wheel trailer winch called an "Eagle" trailer.
I hope that answers a few questions.
I remember that the FGC Wild winches had a plaque bolted to the cage somewhere which said M.B Wild, Birmingham and it had a picture of a barrage balloon on it. You can just make it out it in this picture I found on a website about barrage balloons.
Sorry about the thread creep!
Sorry about the thread creep!
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 25th Oct 2009 at 03:59.
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Using a theory that crap photos are just better then no photos, here are some that date from September 1977 during a detachment of 635 VGS to Halesland, Cheddar Gorge. I was a Staff Cadet, and it was 1 month before I joined the RAF. 32 years later (Anniversary today!) I am still in!
1) First the chariot (Austin) that pulled the winch up the hill, and if I recall, was the source of much fun to drive with a crash gearbox and slippy terrain.
2) Launch site, and although a small and poor photo, I believe it to be Alan Howard (CFI) looking this way.
3) Will Taylor (now OC 635) and John McCoy (Staff Cdt) along with Cadets from Manchester Wg with Sedburgh WJ308.
4) Will Taylor flies Swallow XT653 at the end of the day.
These photos originated from a tiny camera (110 film) and my scanner picked up the grain of the print so I am unable to make them any better. Nevertheless, hopefully they may ring the nostalgia bell in some.
Regards
1) First the chariot (Austin) that pulled the winch up the hill, and if I recall, was the source of much fun to drive with a crash gearbox and slippy terrain.
2) Launch site, and although a small and poor photo, I believe it to be Alan Howard (CFI) looking this way.
3) Will Taylor (now OC 635) and John McCoy (Staff Cdt) along with Cadets from Manchester Wg with Sedburgh WJ308.
4) Will Taylor flies Swallow XT653 at the end of the day.
These photos originated from a tiny camera (110 film) and my scanner picked up the grain of the print so I am unable to make them any better. Nevertheless, hopefully they may ring the nostalgia bell in some.
Regards
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This thread has been a pleasure to read over the last however long. Brought back some cracking memories! My gliding was all done in Barges, as I recall, and we flew from Scampton, Lindholme and even Kirton-in-Lindsey I believe. Happy days!
Talking of winches, I seem to remember that Humber Club-type winch, and the dates would tie up, but I also remember one which was installed in an old Routemaster double-decker bus. Was that the one at Kirton?
If I could only find my old 3822...
Talking of winches, I seem to remember that Humber Club-type winch, and the dates would tie up, but I also remember one which was installed in an old Routemaster double-decker bus. Was that the one at Kirton?
If I could only find my old 3822...
Humber Gliding Club Winch at Scampton in 1986. This was the one we called "SYD"
That's my Missus Gill by the wheel looking bored, she was my Fiancée then Been married to her 22 years now.................
Trev
That's my Missus Gill by the wheel looking bored, she was my Fiancée then Been married to her 22 years now.................
Trev
Not a good place to sit. She obviously didn't know that the rear driver's side wheel was the favourite place to pee for winchdrivers needing relief!
And a wife bored by standing around on a cold airfield all day? I met Mrs W at 4CGC when she was a glider pilot so she couldn't really complain!
And a wife bored by standing around on a cold airfield all day? I met Mrs W at 4CGC when she was a glider pilot so she couldn't really complain!
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Tiger Mate
Re your excellent photos, are you sure that Sedbergh is WJ 308, not 306? I can see that it looks like 308 on the photo but
a) according to the UK Serials website, WJ 308 was never issued
b) WJ 306 was based at Halesland in the late 70's
c) 306 was the only WJ serial Sedbergh, having been ordered as a single (replacement?) unit in late 1950
I'm not asking the question for totally nerd-like reasons. I'm still flying WJ306 (at Oxford Gliding Club) but it's in the later red/white air cadets scheme (she passed through St Athan for refurbishment in 1980)
However assuming your picture is 306, it's the first one I've seen of her in silver/dayglo bands, so ta ever so for that.
Any chance you could email a copy of those photos 'cos printing it off PPrune chops the nose off? I'll pm my address
Re your excellent photos, are you sure that Sedbergh is WJ 308, not 306? I can see that it looks like 308 on the photo but
a) according to the UK Serials website, WJ 308 was never issued
b) WJ 306 was based at Halesland in the late 70's
c) 306 was the only WJ serial Sedbergh, having been ordered as a single (replacement?) unit in late 1950
I'm not asking the question for totally nerd-like reasons. I'm still flying WJ306 (at Oxford Gliding Club) but it's in the later red/white air cadets scheme (she passed through St Athan for refurbishment in 1980)
However assuming your picture is 306, it's the first one I've seen of her in silver/dayglo bands, so ta ever so for that.
Any chance you could email a copy of those photos 'cos printing it off PPrune chops the nose off? I'll pm my address
Last edited by astir 8; 29th Oct 2009 at 10:44.
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PM sent.
I have since taken a magnifying glass to the original, and it is indeed WJ306.
Link: Sedburgh WJ306
I have since taken a magnifying glass to the original, and it is indeed WJ306.
Link: Sedburgh WJ306
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635 VGS now moved to York
The squadron went from Burtonowwod to Samlesbury and is now at York awaiting a new move back to the north west. When did you solo. ? I was there from 1972..