Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)

[lightbluefootprint]

Good to see XN246 is still around, although the aircraft seemed to be my nemesis when I was doing the old GS at 617. I'm pretty sure I used 246 for my first pre-solo check and I tried to impress the boss in the back by flying a nice high circuit drifting outwards on the base leg to lose some more height and then finding myself turning finals with way too much height. To paraphrase Air Clues - I learnt about flying from that!

246 did seem to be less comfortable to me, it was a bare wood seat in the front, and I hated flying in it and avoided it when I could.

[JW411]

The T21s at HCGIS Detling did not have facility to fit "the bullet" into the nose in 1955 nor did the T21s at 662 GS in 1957.

The T21 we had at Benson (RAFGSA Club) did not have the nose ballast mod in 1963 when I joined and students did their first solo in a Grunau Baby (with sometimes exciting results).

My best guess is that the nose ballast mod came along around 1965.

[chevvron]

Could be; I started at 613 in 1965 and all the barges apart from '971 had them.

[brokenlink]

Swanton Morely now the home of the Dragoons with (I think) recce AFV's.

[chevvron]

Found my old log book. We also had WB 938 at Halton.

[Fitter2]

Tony Hanfrey R.I.P.

Some of you may remember Tony, who was an instructor at one of the Lancashire VGS (Woodvale?) in the 60's. Later he went civilian soaring with the Inkpen and Lasham clubs, and was the UK Glasflugel agent 77 to 86.

Tont died on saturday 18th July after a long illness.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

From your description you must have trained on a Sunday 30 hours seems a long time to solo considering 635 had the best instructors?
Peter Leggett (Flt Lt) is still doing well as is Bryan Trunkfield (Bryan correctly spelt). 635 VGS (The S now stands for Squadron) is still in existance and operates now out of RAF Topcliffe.
The unit has had Four Commanding Officers
Flt Lt Bryan Trunkfield (Promoted to Sqn Ldr on Transfer to Bae Samlesbury).
Sqd Ldr Peter J McLachlan (Deputy OC at Burtonwood)
Sqd Ldr Jeff Woods (Staff Cadet at Burtonwood)
Sqd Ldr Will Taylor (Staff Cadet at Burtonwood) Current OC.
Total number of instructors and Staff Cadets since Start up approximatly 150.
Sedbergh (T21) XN 185 was at Burtonwood since it started and remained with the unit until it transferred to Samlesbury and converted to the Venture.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Tony Hanfrey

Tony Hanfrey was a staff cadet at 635 VGS RAF Burtonwood later given a commision as Technical Officer. Tony's claim to fame at Burtonwood was he repeatedly resigned only to return the following week after a very patient OC reinstated him. He was also a member of the FOGIES (Former Old Gliding Instructors Extension Society). He was very much liked and his death is a very sad loss.

[Neander]

XE790

As I am one of the owners of the old XE790 (now BGA4926/ KAA) and flying for 7 years with it in The Netherlands, I would like to know whether somebody has old pics from the XE790.
We are still flying around each year, made some soaring flights along the coast and landed on the beach. Made one x-country flight in Germany, but landed outfield. Longest flight till now, 2hours and 5 minutes!! Highest altitude 6100ft in thermals at Wesel (Germany) in 2004.
We bought this glider in 2001, overhauled it, replaced the winch hook and start flying with it since November 2002. In 2003 we made about 160 launches with it.
If some pics available, or nice stories about the XE790, please let me know!

Thanks in advance.

By the way, you can have a look on www.ezzc.nl/xe790

[l.garey]

XA282 at Hawkinge

I was prompted to go over this great thread again by yesterday's post from Holland. Thanks Neander. Excellent work on XE790.

I posted on 27/6/09 (#308) about my experience at Hawkinge, where I soloed on XA282 in 1958. It is now in the Caernarvon Museum I understand. In post 308 2sheds shows a photo of one of my instructors, Ron Whittenbury, at Swanton Morley. Did he serve at both places?

I have found no reference to XA282 being on strength at Hawkinge. In his listing in post 155, WE992 gives its history as:
105 GS, Cambridge. 626 GS. 635 GS, Burtonwood. CGMF Store, RAF Syerston. Sold.

Indeed Tiger mate (#133) says he soloed on it at Burtonwood. So how come I flew it at Hawkinge? Was it on detachment or something? Does anyone have its exact service history? Thanks

Laurence

[l.garey]

Hawkinge HCGC

Further to my questions above, I just found this from "Flight"

1956 | 0492 | Flight Archive

Doesn't answer me, but is of interest. I see in my logbook that Hawkinge was the HCGC No 1 in 1958.

Laurence

[603DX]

I did a course at 613 VGS at Halton in 1957 while in my school CCF, and qualified for the 'A' and 'B' certificates on T21B Slingsby 'Sedbergh' and T31 Kirby 'Cadet' Mk.3 types.

I have recently been enjoying powered flying lessons in Piper Warriors, and a lingering memory from that far-off gliding experience has been bugging me. In powered flight, a left turn needs left aileron bank plus left rudder, obviously. But I have this persistent recollection of being taught to use opposite rudder in banked turns in the gliders! Am I mad?

Through the mists of 52 years, I seem to remember being told that this was to reduce the height loss occurring during turns. I wonder whether this seemingly bizarre instruction had something to do with mitigating the effects of adverse yaw? Or would it make that worse? I'm confused.

Please, can someone put me right on this, it's beginning to bother me!

[longer ron]

I have recently been enjoying powered flying lessons in Piper Warriors, and a lingering memory from that far-off gliding experience has been bugging me. In powered flight, a left turn needs left aileron bank plus left rudder, obviously. But I have this persistent recollection of being taught to use opposite rudder in banked turns in the gliders! Am I mad?

perhaps you are thinking about slight opposite aileron to hold the desired bank angle once it has been achieved.

regards LR (613 1970-72)

[603DX]

Thanks, LR. No, it definitely wasn't that, it was rudder movement. Does anyone else remember being told to do this?

I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm fairly sure that I did give it a bit of opposite rudder in banked turns, both on the flights with instructor and on my solos. I'm still here to tell the tale, so obviously it didn't do much harm, but I'd love to know what was the rationale behind it!

[longer ron]

Hmmmm.... adverse yaw...wasnt that caused by pulling on one of the spoiler cables whilst sitting in the back of a Mk3 being flown by a staff cadet
Not that I ever did of course

Maybe we all put in a little opp rudder during a turn without realising it,but it could only be a little otherwise you would be sideslipping.
Thinking back 40yrs ...we were taught to initiate the turn inc using the rudder to overcome any adverse yaw but once established in the turn to centralise rudder input because you were no longer using ailerons ...however...once established in the turn you might be using a little opp aileron to maintain the desired bank angle so I suppose you might require a little top rudder to counteract a small amount of adverse yaw from 'holding off' the bank.
I do not remember being taught that but these things fairly quickly become natural inputs,my initial training was at Spitalgate ,maybe the training was more advanced in Bucks...or maybe I have a rotten memory LOL

cheers LR

[603DX]

Thanks again, LR.

I'm still unsure. One thought occurs to me, that perhaps putting on a bit of opposite rudder when established in the banked turn mobilises the available stabilising effect of the very slab-sided fuselage of the Cadet, so the rudder is virtually acting as a 'trim tab' and reducing the sideslip and height loss. This unlikely-sounding effect, if it occurs, would certainly never be able to act if the glider were an EoN Primary, which has almost non-existent side area of the fuselage!

It makes you think, doesn't it? Any other contributions to this retro look at what we all did without thinking too much about it, in those wood-and-fabric contraptions?

[JEM60]

Here is an interesting aerodynamic one. When I was a staff cadet on 613 many years ago, I flew one of the last flights of the C.O.S/L Purchase???
We were winched up in XN150, and he requested I did a spin. Well, usual input, pull up, full left rudder as it stalls, and round it very leisurely wallowed. We landed, and he said we'll do it again, but watch. We winched, he pulled up to the stall, just before, full left rudder, and then he applied full RIGHT aileron!!. Boy, did that spin sharply to the left.!!!!!!
We discussed on the ground, and then I got it!!. If you are wanting to spin to the left, then by applying right aileron moves the left aileron down at the point of the stall. Sudden increased A.O.A on the left wing, which then stalled VERY smartly!!!. There was a very good lesson here. I went on to PPL flying 17 years later, and never forgot the lesson that trying to pick up a wing, at very low speeds, with aileron alone can have VERY serious consequences!!!!. Fly safe out there!!.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Opposite rudder to aileron

This was taught in the cadet MKIII before spoilers where fitted.
Commonly known as side sliping. Used by most instructors to avoid the treck back to the launch point (pre gliding retreive trolley days)

[603DX]

Opposite rudder to aileron

Burtonwood Aviator:

Thanks, this sounds a bit more likely! The Mk III's in 1957 definitely didn't have spoilers fitted, and the simple checklist CISTRS (controls-instruments
-spoilers-trim-release-straps) wasn't valid for spoilers, it was only on the Sedberghs that you had them to check.

It also suggests another possible reason for us being told to put on a bit of opposite rudder in turns - to shorten our time in the air and get more launches in! There were quite a few of us on the course, and what with weather delays etc., it must have been a bit tight to get us all qualified for the 'A' and 'B' certs within the week.

I must admit I still have a lingering memory of being told the opposite rudder was to reduce height lost in turns, so I'm not 100% convinced, but your explanation of sideslipping to lose height as a substitute for spoilers seems a good one.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

XA 282

I seem to recall that whilst at Burtonwood the cadet MKIII in question (XA282) tried to mate with another MKIII