The Buccaneer
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There was a certain instructor on the Bucc OCU at Honington (1971) who introduced all new navs to the loop in a Buccaneer on their FAM 1 sortie - so he must have done it more than once and survived!
It went like this:
Pilot: Right Foldie, I'm now going to show you a loop in a Buccaneer!
Baby Nav (thinking catch question this): A loop is not cleared in the Release to Service! (thinking gotcha - ya can't catch me).
Pilot: Shut up, hold on, give me the heights and speeds on the way up AND on the way down!
I recall we entered at 5000ft and bottomed about 2000ft - the rest was a complete blur but I passed the sortie and subsequently, the course!
Foldie
It went like this:
Pilot: Right Foldie, I'm now going to show you a loop in a Buccaneer!
Baby Nav (thinking catch question this): A loop is not cleared in the Release to Service! (thinking gotcha - ya can't catch me).
Pilot: Shut up, hold on, give me the heights and speeds on the way up AND on the way down!
I recall we entered at 5000ft and bottomed about 2000ft - the rest was a complete blur but I passed the sortie and subsequently, the course!
Foldie
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The pilot in question was John Myers (sp?)
Many years ago he let 2 sprogs, my sister and I sit in the buccaneer at the Jersey airshow several years in a row.
Crash
Many years ago he let 2 sprogs, my sister and I sit in the buccaneer at the Jersey airshow several years in a row.
Crash
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Roll / Yaw coupling
Tim,
You are absolutely right; roll/ yaw coupling was identified as a potential hazard. I used to give the Buccaneer aerodynamics lecture on the 237 OCU conversion course, and RYC was covered in some detail. In fact, looking at my Buccaneer MKII Aircrew Notes, Sections 14 and 15 (Aerobatics and Inertia Cross-coupling respectively), all the previous points about loops, etc are covered in depth. Although Tom's comments about why we didn't (?!) loop the Bucc are quite correct, any maneouvre that involved large control deflections at low speed / high AOA had to be treated with some respect, otherwise the spotty-faced youths could end up in trouble.
My most challenging discourse on the Buccaneer's aerodynamics was when I had to give it to the Boss of ETPS. Although he listened attentively he seemed satisfied with the explanations which was something of a relief.
GW
You are absolutely right; roll/ yaw coupling was identified as a potential hazard. I used to give the Buccaneer aerodynamics lecture on the 237 OCU conversion course, and RYC was covered in some detail. In fact, looking at my Buccaneer MKII Aircrew Notes, Sections 14 and 15 (Aerobatics and Inertia Cross-coupling respectively), all the previous points about loops, etc are covered in depth. Although Tom's comments about why we didn't (?!) loop the Bucc are quite correct, any maneouvre that involved large control deflections at low speed / high AOA had to be treated with some respect, otherwise the spotty-faced youths could end up in trouble.
My most challenging discourse on the Buccaneer's aerodynamics was when I had to give it to the Boss of ETPS. Although he listened attentively he seemed satisfied with the explanations which was something of a relief.
GW
......otherwise the spotty-faced youths could end up in trouble.
I recall "If above 400KIAS and +4G, use no more then half aileron". There was also a very clear aerodynamic brief during groundschool about why 'nose high' rolls-off-the-top were prohibited; only 'nose low' were allowed.
Considering some of Beagle's previous comments about 237 OCU, I thought he was being quite restrained 
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Crumbs, I hope that doesn't mean the poor chap didn't enjoy himself on the OCU.
I did. I was fortunate enough to be there when we had a great bunch of instructors and studes (and they didn't even mind being called spotty-faced youths!!).
Those were the days!
GW
I did. I was fortunate enough to be there when we had a great bunch of instructors and studes (and they didn't even mind being called spotty-faced youths!!).
Those were the days!
GW
greywings, actually I thought the groundschool was very good indeed. Particularly the aerodynamics sessions.
But the 'learning environment' during the flying phase was, regrettably, a different kettle of fish. Lots of little things added up to make students feel regarded as unworthy even to enter the doors of the place.
Nice to find that pinned up on the noticeboard one morning....
237 OCU - an outfit which flew 100% of its allocated hours and graduated 33% of its allocated students.....
Although there were some notable exceptions - such as the legendary 'firm but fair' Bruce C who was a superb instructor.
But the 'learning environment' during the flying phase was, regrettably, a different kettle of fish. Lots of little things added up to make students feel regarded as unworthy even to enter the doors of the place.
"Dining In Night. Limited places, so priorities are:
1. Those who didn't go last time.
2. Those who did go last time.
3. Others.
4. Students"
1. Those who didn't go last time.
2. Those who did go last time.
3. Others.
4. Students"
237 OCU - an outfit which flew 100% of its allocated hours and graduated 33% of its allocated students.....
Although there were some notable exceptions - such as the legendary 'firm but fair' Bruce C who was a superb instructor.
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Golly, that's news to me
Crumbs,
That must have been after my time. I think anyone who went through in the mid-70's should have a very different tale to tell.
Anyway, all water under the bridge now, and we should be content with happy memories of having flown a great aeroplane with a wonderful bunch of people.
It is interesting how strong the affection is for the Buccaneer even after all this time.
BTW, how is the officer Chappell these days? I remember giving him his first ride in the back when he was converting as a QFI on the OCU. I think it gave him a completely different perspective on life!!
Yours aye,
GW
That must have been after my time. I think anyone who went through in the mid-70's should have a very different tale to tell.
Anyway, all water under the bridge now, and we should be content with happy memories of having flown a great aeroplane with a wonderful bunch of people.
It is interesting how strong the affection is for the Buccaneer even after all this time.
BTW, how is the officer Chappell these days? I remember giving him his first ride in the back when he was converting as a QFI on the OCU. I think it gave him a completely different perspective on life!!
Yours aye,
GW
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BEagle, OT but you do take me back re dining in nights. The instructions we were given as students was "Not permitted to attend but you do pay your mess share". (Dark Blue)
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Come on, chaps, let's stick together.
We had a good time, flying a great aeroplane - a British aeroplane - and if we can't get beyond complaining about how we were treated at dining-in nights 30-odd years ago, something is seriously wrong!!
GW
We had a good time, flying a great aeroplane - a British aeroplane - and if we can't get beyond complaining about how we were treated at dining-in nights 30-odd years ago, something is seriously wrong!!
GW
GW, yes, obviously different eras!
Last time I saw BC, he was at St. Athan as the resident fast jet TP - and seemed to have aged about 5 minutes in 20 years.
Thundering around at low level in the mighty British beast was an epic experience - I think my most enjoyable trip was with my fellow student in the back during 'WS FAM2', when we were sent off to look for things to attack! Licensed hooliganism!!
Least favourite was HI NAV 4, one Saturday morning in November. Launched off and into low cloud, up to high level for rather a pointless triangular navigation exercise (offset TACAN was a godsend though) - the 3 student crews in a 20 min stream. Back to Honington, a GCA and overshoot due to Wx below limts, then another GCA to land at Mildenhall. 40 min IF - and none of us had Instrument Ratings. 2 of us landed at Mildenhall, the other went below his limits and landed at Honington. Then a slow bus journey back to Honington before they grudgingly admitted that the Wx wasn't going to improve, so let us stack. We did at least then have Sunday off before a week of low level navigation.....
Last time I saw BC, he was at St. Athan as the resident fast jet TP - and seemed to have aged about 5 minutes in 20 years.
Thundering around at low level in the mighty British beast was an epic experience - I think my most enjoyable trip was with my fellow student in the back during 'WS FAM2', when we were sent off to look for things to attack! Licensed hooliganism!!
Least favourite was HI NAV 4, one Saturday morning in November. Launched off and into low cloud, up to high level for rather a pointless triangular navigation exercise (offset TACAN was a godsend though) - the 3 student crews in a 20 min stream. Back to Honington, a GCA and overshoot due to Wx below limts, then another GCA to land at Mildenhall. 40 min IF - and none of us had Instrument Ratings. 2 of us landed at Mildenhall, the other went below his limits and landed at Honington. Then a slow bus journey back to Honington before they grudgingly admitted that the Wx wasn't going to improve, so let us stack. We did at least then have Sunday off before a week of low level navigation.....