Cambrian Airways
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You'll all have me sheding a tear.
My dad now 82, was chief pilot for Cambrian at the end. He still enjoys telling me all those stories about flying 14 hour days endlessly back and forth to Jersy and positioning back to Haverfordwest in the dark along the coast at 500 feet in the Rapid and doing the samething 5 days a week.. But the one thing that does stick out in my memory is that in their history they only had one accident, the VC8 at Liverpool on a training flight with assemetric flap.
Ho no! Just had dad on the phone telling me about the time Capt Heinzlipshoot overtook him with a Viscount while he was flying a BAC1-11 from Bristol to Cardiff. Happy days and from what I can understand a great airline to work for.
My dad now 82, was chief pilot for Cambrian at the end. He still enjoys telling me all those stories about flying 14 hour days endlessly back and forth to Jersy and positioning back to Haverfordwest in the dark along the coast at 500 feet in the Rapid and doing the samething 5 days a week.. But the one thing that does stick out in my memory is that in their history they only had one accident, the VC8 at Liverpool on a training flight with assemetric flap.
Ho no! Just had dad on the phone telling me about the time Capt Heinzlipshoot overtook him with a Viscount while he was flying a BAC1-11 from Bristol to Cardiff. Happy days and from what I can understand a great airline to work for.
Join Date: May 2001
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Ah yes. 20th July 1965 it was and G-AMOL was the aircraft in question.
The report says:
"Viscount 701, G-AMOL departed Ronaldsway at 16:49 for a flight to Liverpool. The flight was made at flight level 70 and at 17:08 hours the aircraft was identified by Liverppol radar over Wallasey and positioned for a PPI continuous descent radar approach to runway 26. Half a mile from touchdown the radar approach was completed and the aircraft was then seen (on radar) to be just discernably to the right of the centreline. No radio messages were received from the aircraft after the start of the talk-down. At 550 metres from the threshold, it was estimated to be at a height between 30 and 60 metres and about 40 metres to the right of the centre line. At this paint witnesses saw the aircraft bank and turn to the right. The fuselage was level and the aircraft was banked almost vertically for part of the turn. When heading in approximately the opposite direction to the runway it rolled on to its back and crashed into the roof of a factory about 365 metres to the right of the extented centre line of the runway and about 550 metres from the threshold.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The aircraft went out of control during the final stage of an approach to land but the reason for this has not been determined."
I recall subsequent discussion about flap failure but I cannot find if this was proved. It featured in an earlier Viscount 701 crash at Manchester (G-ALWE BEA, 1957).
A great airline indeed and some excellent people working for it.
The report says:
"Viscount 701, G-AMOL departed Ronaldsway at 16:49 for a flight to Liverpool. The flight was made at flight level 70 and at 17:08 hours the aircraft was identified by Liverppol radar over Wallasey and positioned for a PPI continuous descent radar approach to runway 26. Half a mile from touchdown the radar approach was completed and the aircraft was then seen (on radar) to be just discernably to the right of the centreline. No radio messages were received from the aircraft after the start of the talk-down. At 550 metres from the threshold, it was estimated to be at a height between 30 and 60 metres and about 40 metres to the right of the centre line. At this paint witnesses saw the aircraft bank and turn to the right. The fuselage was level and the aircraft was banked almost vertically for part of the turn. When heading in approximately the opposite direction to the runway it rolled on to its back and crashed into the roof of a factory about 365 metres to the right of the extented centre line of the runway and about 550 metres from the threshold.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "The aircraft went out of control during the final stage of an approach to land but the reason for this has not been determined."
I recall subsequent discussion about flap failure but I cannot find if this was proved. It featured in an earlier Viscount 701 crash at Manchester (G-ALWE BEA, 1957).
A great airline indeed and some excellent people working for it.
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To Heading 125,
I only wish people like your dad would write their biography so we could all enjoy their tales.
Give him my best wishes.
Looking forward to further posts from you ( Please !)
Be lucky
David
I only wish people like your dad would write their biography so we could all enjoy their tales.
Give him my best wishes.
Looking forward to further posts from you ( Please !)
Be lucky
David
Hi
I was in the Liverpool Airort Security/Police in the 70s. Our office was outside the Cambrian Hangar by the Jctn of the Main Apron and the Weat Apron. The engineers always used to park a 111 from London there with it's GPU going full blast until a Sgt (who will remain nameless) went out and informed the persons on the A/C that if they parked it there again whilst we were trying to eat he would ensure that every member of the Cambrian groundstaff was prevented from any access to this A/C untill the GPU used All the fuel for it. The GPU was shut off but that was the end of OUR FLIGHTS with them,but that aside the Cambrian Staff were the nicest people at the Airport,(ground or air staff)
I was in the Liverpool Airort Security/Police in the 70s. Our office was outside the Cambrian Hangar by the Jctn of the Main Apron and the Weat Apron. The engineers always used to park a 111 from London there with it's GPU going full blast until a Sgt (who will remain nameless) went out and informed the persons on the A/C that if they parked it there again whilst we were trying to eat he would ensure that every member of the Cambrian groundstaff was prevented from any access to this A/C untill the GPU used All the fuel for it. The GPU was shut off but that was the end of OUR FLIGHTS with them,but that aside the Cambrian Staff were the nicest people at the Airport,(ground or air staff)
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I believe that Heinz Lipschutz got his name out of a phone book after the end of WW2.I went to school with a lot of the chilldren of Cambrian staff.I remember:
Anne Webster-her father was the technical instructor.What her father didn't know about the 1-11 wasn't worth knowing
Rob Clowes-his father was the senior steward at Cambrian
Rupert Passmore-son of the late Bill who I think took a command on the viscount in Scotland.
I also remember the childrens christmas parties at Rhoose-always a jolly time.
I had a flight on a viscount from Gla-Lpl-Rhs with the late Carol(Charles) Vlcek? as the F/o.Fun days.My school had a travel agents model of a Cambrian Viscount-I wonder what they did with it?
Anne Webster-her father was the technical instructor.What her father didn't know about the 1-11 wasn't worth knowing
Rob Clowes-his father was the senior steward at Cambrian
Rupert Passmore-son of the late Bill who I think took a command on the viscount in Scotland.
I also remember the childrens christmas parties at Rhoose-always a jolly time.
I had a flight on a viscount from Gla-Lpl-Rhs with the late Carol(Charles) Vlcek? as the F/o.Fun days.My school had a travel agents model of a Cambrian Viscount-I wonder what they did with it?
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Cambrian Airways.
I read with interest the letters posted on Cambrian Airways, I am the owner of the tribute site and was myself with Cambrian at Rhoose in the 1960s. I agree with the sentiments that Cambrian was indeed a great airline to work for and after all this time it is still fondly remembered, we had two 30 year reunions in March 2006 in Cardiff and Liverpool and another is planned for 2008. The tribute site is at present in the process of being transferred to a new server and expanded to cover all aspects of Cambrian ( including fleet and timetable information ) and will also cover Northeast as part of the British Air Services Group, my objective is to record all the information I can in one place to pass on for posterity, so that this great Airline is not lost to History. I ask any of the members of this site who have any information or photographs would they please pass them on to me so they to can be recorded. I have also been approached regarding writing a book on Cambrian and the BAS Group, but at present am still employed full time, but hope at a later date to achive this objective and hope to gather all the information that is still availabe with this also in mind. G.J.Hillard.
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Cambrian Airways.
For the members who have an interest and memories of Cambrian Airways, The New Look Website is now up and running at www.cambrianairways.co.uk It is now with a new server and I can now expand it and will also be adding some old film clips as soon as I can sort out the software to post them. I last posted on this site in September 2006, asking for information and memories to record while they are still available. To date I have not received any reply to my request, I would like to ask members to take the time to pass this information to me, because no matter how much time and expense I go to sites like mine which hope to record the History of the Airline and its people will fail, and as so many other things in our time be lost to History. I would like to leave a record for future Generations to see what a great Airline and way of life it was, in an Aviation World that is already only a memory to the few of us lucky enough to be old enough to enjoy it, so please take the time before it is to late. Garry.
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<<Anyone know Pete Steeley (spelling?) who used to fly for Cambrian and where he ended up?>>
Used to fly with a Pete Steeley(?) on the 111-510's LHR based in the early '80's - lots of TXL's but don't know what happened to him after that
Used to fly with a Pete Steeley(?) on the 111-510's LHR based in the early '80's - lots of TXL's but don't know what happened to him after that
If I remember correctly for a short while the Liverpool/London service dropped off at Hawarden in the mid sixties.Never did understand the economics of it and presumably why it did not last long.
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SF, long time ago, but I think the Hawarden service was originally operated by British Eagle and briefly assumed by Cambrian after Eagle's collapse. I did once hear that the idea was to offer housewives a day return to shop in Chester (ten shillings return !), but I am not sure I believe that.
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Nope - it was Eagle's attempt to get a LPL-LHR service to compete with Cambrian. They got the Hawarden to Heathrow route and just hopped over to Speke to complete the trip - which had it's fun moments..
"Liverpool approach, this is Eagle 345 just airborne from Hawarden, overhead Capenhurst at 1500ft.... Oops.."
Eagle may have gone (sigh) but the RA around Capenhurst is still there. The cooling towers have gone though..
"Liverpool approach, this is Eagle 345 just airborne from Hawarden, overhead Capenhurst at 1500ft.... Oops.."
Eagle may have gone (sigh) but the RA around Capenhurst is still there. The cooling towers have gone though..
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Heading125,
Your father may well have been the pilot for my first ever flight which was in a Cambrian Rapide at the RAF Chivenor Battle of Britain day in 1958 or 59 - a quick trip around the pattern for 3 quid if memory serves.
IIRC we worked on ex-Cambrian 1-11s as British Airways Regional Division aircraft service bulletins were raised for them at BAC Hurn. I remember Uncle Roger in Flight remarking that there now was a Welsh BARD....
Your father may well have been the pilot for my first ever flight which was in a Cambrian Rapide at the RAF Chivenor Battle of Britain day in 1958 or 59 - a quick trip around the pattern for 3 quid if memory serves.
IIRC we worked on ex-Cambrian 1-11s as British Airways Regional Division aircraft service bulletins were raised for them at BAC Hurn. I remember Uncle Roger in Flight remarking that there now was a Welsh BARD....
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Sorry if you've already been there, but have you tried:
http://cambrianairways.co.uk/
Go to 'Gallery', then 'Cambrian Timetables'. A great site, and includes BKS and Northeast too.
Simon
http://cambrianairways.co.uk/
Go to 'Gallery', then 'Cambrian Timetables'. A great site, and includes BKS and Northeast too.
Simon
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Cambrian tried to operate from Howarden in the 50s and again in the 60s under pressure from the North Wales Local Authorities and Business Community, But ceased after a short periods due to heavy losses. Garry. at www.unforgettable.org.uk/cambrian & www.cambrianairways.co.uk
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Cambrian Airways BAC 1/11s
BAC 1/11 400 series: according to my records, December 1969 G-AVOF to Cambrian, ex Court Line. January & July 1970 G-AVOE & G-AVGP to Cambrian, ex Court Line, and February 1971 G-AWBL to Cambrian, ex Court Line, all were aquired via BAC. I do believe that a couple of them served with Channel Airways before coming to Cambrian, but do not have details to hand. I hope this is of help. Garry. www.cambrianairways.co.uk
Last edited by GJHillard; 31st May 2007 at 07:54.
Hawarden services :
These started in April 1962 when Starways, based at Speke, made a stop on one of their daily Liverpool-Heathrow flights, initially with DC-4s, later with Viscounts. British Eagle took Starways over in January 1964 (gaining their Liverpool base) and continued the once-daily stop. Cambrian had also built up a Liverpool base with routes transferred from BEA, and were operating a once-daily schedule to Heathrow, although this was basically an intermediate stop on an Isle of Man to Heathrow services, Eagle providing the main service which had built up to about 8 daily rotations by 1966, some with Britannias and later One-Elevens, although the Hawarden stopper was always a Viscount.
Eagle went out of business at the end of 1968 and Cambrian became the main Liverpool operator, expanding the Heathrow route from one to five daily round trips, but Hawarden was never served. They applied to the ATLB for a licence for it, but this was never followed through.
There are still daily services out of Hawarden but they are private charters for BAe/Airbus to Filton and Toulouse, currently using a chartered 146 I believe.
In the 1960s we lived in Hoylake in the Wirral and a friend's father sometimes used the service from Hawarden, saying it was easier than getting over to Speke.
The Welsh Assembly has recently made funds available for a "North Wales to Cardiff" air service, which is going to operate to Valley in Anglesey. This is way off the populated areas of the country and looks unlikely to succeed. Hawarden would have been a much more effective point, it's in Wales (just !) which will satisfy the political point, has good road links with the North Wales coast main towns, and is close to the largest town in North Wales, Wrexham, which surely would deserve to be served first.
These started in April 1962 when Starways, based at Speke, made a stop on one of their daily Liverpool-Heathrow flights, initially with DC-4s, later with Viscounts. British Eagle took Starways over in January 1964 (gaining their Liverpool base) and continued the once-daily stop. Cambrian had also built up a Liverpool base with routes transferred from BEA, and were operating a once-daily schedule to Heathrow, although this was basically an intermediate stop on an Isle of Man to Heathrow services, Eagle providing the main service which had built up to about 8 daily rotations by 1966, some with Britannias and later One-Elevens, although the Hawarden stopper was always a Viscount.
Eagle went out of business at the end of 1968 and Cambrian became the main Liverpool operator, expanding the Heathrow route from one to five daily round trips, but Hawarden was never served. They applied to the ATLB for a licence for it, but this was never followed through.
There are still daily services out of Hawarden but they are private charters for BAe/Airbus to Filton and Toulouse, currently using a chartered 146 I believe.
In the 1960s we lived in Hoylake in the Wirral and a friend's father sometimes used the service from Hawarden, saying it was easier than getting over to Speke.
The Welsh Assembly has recently made funds available for a "North Wales to Cardiff" air service, which is going to operate to Valley in Anglesey. This is way off the populated areas of the country and looks unlikely to succeed. Hawarden would have been a much more effective point, it's in Wales (just !) which will satisfy the political point, has good road links with the North Wales coast main towns, and is close to the largest town in North Wales, Wrexham, which surely would deserve to be served first.
WHBM
Spot on! As a former employee of both Cambrian and BAe, I remember both scenarios very well.
The Chester-Filton run was done with a 125 in my day, and the a/c went on to TLS.
Last year I flew to the IOM in an Emerald ATP, and in the seat pocket was a boarding card from the day before for a Filton-Chester flight!
I too find the 'wisdom' of operating from Valley questionable. Did no-one learn a lesson from St Mawgan?
Spot on! As a former employee of both Cambrian and BAe, I remember both scenarios very well.
The Chester-Filton run was done with a 125 in my day, and the a/c went on to TLS.
Last year I flew to the IOM in an Emerald ATP, and in the seat pocket was a boarding card from the day before for a Filton-Chester flight!
I too find the 'wisdom' of operating from Valley questionable. Did no-one learn a lesson from St Mawgan?
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Cambrian Airways
I travelled with Cambrian Airways in the 1960's from Liverpool to the Isle of Man when the ferries were closed because of the seamens' strike. I believe they were owned by BEA, but I could be wrong. The plane was a Vickers Viscount with huge windows through which I took some slide pictures en-route. I can probably get these scanned if anyone is interested.
Graham Sherlock
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Graham Sherlock
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