Rocket assisted: ever used in service?
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Rocket assisted: ever used in service?
I was watching an old "Farnborough in the 50s" footage, which showed a lot of aircraft using rockets to assist with their take off (and, according to one commentator, for help above 45,000 ft).
Were they ever used in service?
Can anyone tell me more about them?
Were they ever used in service?
Can anyone tell me more about them?
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Didn't Colemill convert a rocket assisted PA-31 some years back?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
On April 25, 1965, President Johnson approved plans to land Marines at Chu Lai to construct a combat airfield. MABS-12 deployed by ship from Iwakuni, Japan and landed in May, 1965. The Marines worked with Navy Seabees to complete the runway. The Marine Corps began launching A-4 Skyhawks (with JATO) for combat missions in June, 1965. By October, 1965, the Chu Lai 7011s had logged 5,000 arrests. On the night of October 27, 1965, a group of enemy "sappers" penetrated the airfield and damaged several A-4's, as well as trying to blow up the arresting gear that was manned and operational, awaiting returning A-4's. JATO was used until, in 1966, a MAG-12 catapult was installed.
JATO Launch from Chu Lai
JATO Launch from Chu Lai
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Remember seeing a video of a C130 reportedly training for a hostage rescue mission(Libya?) with forward firing JATO,obviously for very short field ops. I think they may have hit the wrong button whilst still airborne,with the expected result! Anyone still got the vid?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Operation 'Credible Sport'
In 1980, following the failure of Operation "Eagle Claw" (aka Desert One) the U.S. military made radical modifications to a C-130H Hercules so it could take off and land almost like a helicopter. The aircraft was equipped with lift rockets slanting downward, slowdown rockets facing forward, missile motors facing backward, and still more rockets to stabilize the plane as it touched down. The mission — land in a Tehran soccer stadium, rescue 53 American hostages held captive in Iran, and get out.
.
Two aircraft received these special modifications and were redesignated YMC-130H. The first modified plane (#74-1683), created in just a couple of months, crashed on the runway during a training exercise after a rocket discharged prematurely and ripped off the aircraft's right wing. The second modified plane (#74-1686) was never used and is now on display at Robins AFB in Georgia.
Video
In 1980, following the failure of Operation "Eagle Claw" (aka Desert One) the U.S. military made radical modifications to a C-130H Hercules so it could take off and land almost like a helicopter. The aircraft was equipped with lift rockets slanting downward, slowdown rockets facing forward, missile motors facing backward, and still more rockets to stabilize the plane as it touched down. The mission — land in a Tehran soccer stadium, rescue 53 American hostages held captive in Iran, and get out.
.
Two aircraft received these special modifications and were redesignated YMC-130H. The first modified plane (#74-1683), created in just a couple of months, crashed on the runway during a training exercise after a rocket discharged prematurely and ripped off the aircraft's right wing. The second modified plane (#74-1686) was never used and is now on display at Robins AFB in Georgia.
Video
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SAAF Buccaneers - Permanently Installed RATO
The Buccaneers of the South African Air Force were delivered with Bristol Siddeley B.S.605 HTP Twin Chamber Rocket Motors with 8000ib static thrust to provide for Hot and High take-offs at full weight.
I think this makes them unique in that the installation was permanent and they were one of the few RATO units to use liquid fuel and almost certainly the only in service example of the use of liquid fuel since the Luftwaffe of WWII.
A historical curiosity query:
I seem to remember the Comet prototype (the Big Main Wheel Aircraft) had fittings for RATO units. Is this a case of too little Beer and too many Dried Frog Pills, or am I right?
I think this makes them unique in that the installation was permanent and they were one of the few RATO units to use liquid fuel and almost certainly the only in service example of the use of liquid fuel since the Luftwaffe of WWII.
A historical curiosity query:
I seem to remember the Comet prototype (the Big Main Wheel Aircraft) had fittings for RATO units. Is this a case of too little Beer and too many Dried Frog Pills, or am I right?
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Unless we've been sharing the Frog Pills, I think you're right Opssys!
Hi
I have a photo of a C -130 doing a RATO take off and very impressive it is, there is also a picture of the Blue Eagles (USN) team support a/c doing a RATO t/o as part of the display.
I have a photo of a C -130 doing a RATO take off and very impressive it is, there is also a picture of the Blue Eagles (USN) team support a/c doing a RATO t/o as part of the display.
Originally Posted by Opssys
A historical curiosity query:
I seem to remember the Comet prototype (the Big Main Wheel Aircraft) had fittings for RATO units. Is this a case of too little Beer and too many Dried Frog Pills, or am I right?
RATO for V Bombers
Originally Posted by BOAC
Possibly a Valiant with it too?
However the as the power of the fitted jet engines increased in the later marks the requirement was dropped.
In the case of the Valiant there would have been two rocket motors in jettisonable pods under the wings...
More bang for your buck
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At boscombe they even tried them on a Beverly, apparently it went upto about 250ft quite quickly (for a Bev) then every thing went quiet, the crew thought the engines had stoped but it carried on ok 
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Rocket assisted
We used ATO on C130D ski operations in the Arctic in the late 60s. On the Greenland ice cap it was often too difficult to get the nose ski to un-stick even with violent rocking of the stick over its full range and with all bleeds off. One would reach about 70kts and if you could not accelerate further, fire off all four ATO bottles at this point which would usually (but not always) give you enough extra surge-urge from 4000 lbs of thrust to get airborne. If it didn't work (loud groans from the F/Eng as he had to go back and lift four new bottles on to the lugs forward of the rear para doors and they were damned heavy at 9000 ft AGL) one taxied back in your own tracks and had another go! The bottles burned for about 17 secs.
The USN operated later model ski 130s in the antarctic with more umpf. Now if we had had Dash 15 engines a la K with skis I doubt whether ATO would have been required. Happy days
The USN operated later model ski 130s in the antarctic with more umpf. Now if we had had Dash 15 engines a la K with skis I doubt whether ATO would have been required. Happy days
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Valiant Super Sprites
Was in crew of WD-215 (second prototype) fitted with 2 underwing release mounted Super Sprites for AUW measured take off and separation trials of the recoverable rocket units.
Each burned an HTP (High Test Peroxide) and kerosene mix to produce around 4,000 pnds thrust each for 50 seconds. Load was 80,000 pnds of jettisonable water. Red line carriage speed was 215 kts.
Soon after take off at about 20 degree bank angle/210 kts a main wing spar failed at a fatigue crack through about 30% of bottom spar cap. Skin tore away in area but structural cross beam took wing twisting load and just held on to allow for commencement of water jettison and release of the Super Sprites.
If we had know what had happened we would not have jettisoned the water from the 3500 gal underwing tanks as the weight would have been a relieving moment at the wing failure point.
We were still dropping water when we gently put it back on the ground.
Mild PTSD persists!!!
Don't know whether the squadrons used the sprites.??
Was in crew of WD-215 (second prototype) fitted with 2 underwing release mounted Super Sprites for AUW measured take off and separation trials of the recoverable rocket units.
Each burned an HTP (High Test Peroxide) and kerosene mix to produce around 4,000 pnds thrust each for 50 seconds. Load was 80,000 pnds of jettisonable water. Red line carriage speed was 215 kts.
Soon after take off at about 20 degree bank angle/210 kts a main wing spar failed at a fatigue crack through about 30% of bottom spar cap. Skin tore away in area but structural cross beam took wing twisting load and just held on to allow for commencement of water jettison and release of the Super Sprites.
If we had know what had happened we would not have jettisoned the water from the 3500 gal underwing tanks as the weight would have been a relieving moment at the wing failure point.
We were still dropping water when we gently put it back on the ground.
Mild PTSD persists!!!
Don't know whether the squadrons used the sprites.??
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A fascinating thread, on a subject which doesn't often get much attention.
It seems that RATO is one of those ideas that whilst it never completely disappears becomes a 'side show' sometimes literally. But then gets ressurected every so often to answer a specifc need, or mission requirement.
Currently it is going through a 'quiet period'.
Also there appears to be historically a different approach between the US an Britain, with the US (I think) primarily using Solid Propellant and the British concentrating on using HTP either with a catalyst only, or with kerosene.
Whilst I am a 'fan' of HTP for rocket propulsion, handling 80% Concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide is not easy (see Pictures of Blue Steel Maintenance and Fuelling). A 2% Solution dyes Hair, 80% Solution in contact with Skin, or anything organic becomes much more exciting. So I wonder why we didn't at least experiment with Solid Propellant (after all we did have a lot of experience with Solid Rocket fuel).
A Quick thanks to spekesoftly for clearing up the Comet Query (and Tredders for confirming it wasn't a figment of imagination) and Milt for the Valiant test flight post (Now that is a bad day at the office).
It seems that RATO is one of those ideas that whilst it never completely disappears becomes a 'side show' sometimes literally. But then gets ressurected every so often to answer a specifc need, or mission requirement.
Currently it is going through a 'quiet period'.
Also there appears to be historically a different approach between the US an Britain, with the US (I think) primarily using Solid Propellant and the British concentrating on using HTP either with a catalyst only, or with kerosene.
Whilst I am a 'fan' of HTP for rocket propulsion, handling 80% Concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide is not easy (see Pictures of Blue Steel Maintenance and Fuelling). A 2% Solution dyes Hair, 80% Solution in contact with Skin, or anything organic becomes much more exciting. So I wonder why we didn't at least experiment with Solid Propellant (after all we did have a lot of experience with Solid Rocket fuel).
A Quick thanks to spekesoftly for clearing up the Comet Query (and Tredders for confirming it wasn't a figment of imagination) and Milt for the Valiant test flight post (Now that is a bad day at the office).
Green Granite
"At boscombe they even tried them on a Beverly, apparently it went up to about 250ft quite quickly (for a Bev)"
Please note, ALL Bevs would get to 250ft quite quickly (and higher) on a V2 climb - and highly impressive too for the spectators!! .. the rockets would improve the acceleration to reduce the take-off run needed.
Still have memories of an evening take-off from the GRASS strip at Roborough after a display day; backed up to put the tail boom over the boundary hedge, full chat, skidding on the wet grass and the V2 climb out was as impressive as anything else that day!!
"At boscombe they even tried them on a Beverly, apparently it went up to about 250ft quite quickly (for a Bev)"
Please note, ALL Bevs would get to 250ft quite quickly (and higher) on a V2 climb - and highly impressive too for the spectators!! .. the rockets would improve the acceleration to reduce the take-off run needed.
Still have memories of an evening take-off from the GRASS strip at Roborough after a display day; backed up to put the tail boom over the boundary hedge, full chat, skidding on the wet grass and the V2 climb out was as impressive as anything else that day!!