Rocket assisted: ever used in service?
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In Answer to the query raised by Seacue reference the Arado 234 using RATO: Short Answer Yes and a good link to a nice series of images including a trolley launch is here: http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/body_a...234_blitz.html
The units were Walter HWK 109-500 RI-201 "Cold" Rocket Assisted Take-Off Packs (Cold meaning Catalyst with HTP).
See: The Hellmuth Walter Website
Which has another copy of Arado 235 RATO Pix and has information on other Walter Rocket uses including the Me163.
DIH
The units were Walter HWK 109-500 RI-201 "Cold" Rocket Assisted Take-Off Packs (Cold meaning Catalyst with HTP).
See: The Hellmuth Walter Website
Which has another copy of Arado 235 RATO Pix and has information on other Walter Rocket uses including the Me163.
DIH
F-100D Zero Length System
or ZEL was tested for the USAF in 1958 in another effort to disperse aircraft away from vulnerable airfields.
A 130,000lb solid propellant booster was strapped under the rear of the plane. The plane was attached to a ramp. The pilot than opened up the throttle to afterburner and fired the rocket. Within 4 secs 275 knots was reached.
19 of the 20 manned launches were successful but the programme went no further.
A 130,000lb solid propellant booster was strapped under the rear of the plane. The plane was attached to a ramp. The pilot than opened up the throttle to afterburner and fired the rocket. Within 4 secs 275 knots was reached.
19 of the 20 manned launches were successful but the programme went no further.
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The ZEL Concept
When I was a kid and read about the Zero Length Launcher Trials it was a WOW idea.
Now I believe it was the product of the Cold War Bomber Gap era when it was assumed that a Soviet first strike would be wave after wave of Bombers and the Fighters launched against them would have no Airfields to come back to. So use them and the highly trained pilots as SAMs.
The ZEL took that 'logic' to its ultimate conclusion. By putting the Aricraft and unfortunate Pilot on a SAM Launcher.
If I am wrong, then the logistics of the ZEL don't make sense. The fighter would need somewhere to land (OK Motorway/Freeway etc) but then would need facilities to either be transported to another ZEL and refuelled, rearmed, or the ZEL and refuelling and ordnance would have to be taken to the Aircraft. Combat Turnaround would have been very slow.
.
Probably I am missing something, so I await a PPRune guru to provide the truth :-)
DIH
Now I believe it was the product of the Cold War Bomber Gap era when it was assumed that a Soviet first strike would be wave after wave of Bombers and the Fighters launched against them would have no Airfields to come back to. So use them and the highly trained pilots as SAMs.
The ZEL took that 'logic' to its ultimate conclusion. By putting the Aricraft and unfortunate Pilot on a SAM Launcher.
If I am wrong, then the logistics of the ZEL don't make sense. The fighter would need somewhere to land (OK Motorway/Freeway etc) but then would need facilities to either be transported to another ZEL and refuelled, rearmed, or the ZEL and refuelling and ordnance would have to be taken to the Aircraft. Combat Turnaround would have been very slow.
.
Probably I am missing something, so I await a PPRune guru to provide the truth :-)
DIH
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Probably I am missing something, so I await a PPRune guru to provide the truth
Then there were the rubber deck landings carried out by Winkle Brown in the Vampire. Clever idea but it would have needed very precise flying for landing. Once on the mat I am assuming it would have taken some time to haul the aircraft off and prepare it for take off again (on dollies?).
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Jabberwok I have just read a book by Brown including his Rubber Deck landings and (apart from once when he came in too low and the hook caught on the edge of the Deck) he found that landing was easier, as flexibility of deck pushed a/c towards centreline. I believe that due to space limitations the arrestor cables for the land based test installation were shorter tahn standard. To recover the a/c the front of the deck was lowered and the Vampire slid onto a trolley. Although not required during trials the deck could the emptied and prepared for further landings faster than a normal Carrier setup.
Back to the original topic I believe that trials were made for landing DFS 230 gliders using rocket deceleration for Otto Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini, although I do not believe they were used in the actual operation.
Back to the original topic I believe that trials were made for landing DFS 230 gliders using rocket deceleration for Otto Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini, although I do not believe they were used in the actual operation.
ZEL
The F-100's used to test the system were fitted with a dummy nuclear warhead which implies that it might have been a one way mission landing where you can, (if you can) after delivery.
The USAF went as far as specifying that the last 148 F-100DS had this capability. Perhaps with the increasing deployment of nuclear tipped missiles it seemed no longer necessary?
The USAF went as far as specifying that the last 148 F-100DS had this capability. Perhaps with the increasing deployment of nuclear tipped missiles it seemed no longer necessary?
Yes, Him
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There are RATO bottles in the sea off the eastern end of Akrotiri's runway, only about 30ft deep and about 200yds offshore; someone told me at the time (1970-72) that they were from Valiants. ISTR there were at least six scattered about.
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How interesting
Does anyone know the period when this aircraft was operating for TWA.
Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.
Originally Posted by HEATHROW DIRECTOR
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned N9701F/ ET-T21 the Fairchild Packet used by TWA to cart engines around. It had JATO.
Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.
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Whoops
Never thought of the CAM Ships their 'War Weary' Hurricanes and the very brave souls who flew them. Desperate times, and a desperate measure, which gave the Fw Condors a nasty fright.
Back to ZEL - I thought the USAF ZEL trials covered types other than the
F100?
As for:
The MBF faced the same problem after delivery where were the surviving V Bombers going to go?
Finally. No matter how many times I've read about the Rubber Deck trials, their potential etc, it seemed 'unnatural' regardless of the validity of trying the concept.
Originally Posted by jabberwok
There is precedent to this. Think back to the Hurricanes on merchant ships during the war. Born out of desparation I agree but there wasn't any recovery system at all.
Back to ZEL - I thought the USAF ZEL trials covered types other than the
F100?
As for:
The F-100's used to test the system were fitted with a dummy nuclear warhead which implies that it might have been a one way mission landing where you can, (if you can) after delivery
Finally. No matter how many times I've read about the Rubber Deck trials, their potential etc, it seemed 'unnatural' regardless of the validity of trying the concept.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Lots of others if you include early cruise missiles: Regulus
Mace:
ORAC, it seems the site you linked to does not allow hot links and inserted one of their own. With proper fuel/air mixture and a match theirs might have been a rocket as well as it was a moonshot so to speak.
Navaho:
Site didn't allow hot link.
Snark:
(Reference the packet, that is an Orpheus jet engine on top of the fuselage.)
Mace:
ORAC, it seems the site you linked to does not allow hot links and inserted one of their own. With proper fuel/air mixture and a match theirs might have been a rocket as well as it was a moonshot so to speak.
Navaho:
Site didn't allow hot link.
Snark:
(Reference the packet, that is an Orpheus jet engine on top of the fuselage.)
C82 TWA
Originally Posted by Opssys
How interesting
Does anyone know the period when this aircraft was operating for TWA.
Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.
Does anyone know the period when this aircraft was operating for TWA.
Whilst RATO/JATO has been used on Airshow Display Aurcraft on occasion this is the first Commercial Transport use I've ever heard of, perhaps I've led a sheltered life.
Last known whereabouts
"N9701F was still at Greybull in May 2002, part of the outdoor 'museum' which also includes a C-119, A-26 and Lodestar."
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Rocket Assitance
In the early 60s TAA had several of their DC3s fitted with Rockets, these aircraft were used on freight in Papua New Guinea,I witnessed a demo at Lae
The pilot forgot to up the gear after lift of, but it went up at very healthy rate.
If I remember the rockets were for engine loss only. Made the DC3 very
masculine in appearance. BBB.
The pilot forgot to up the gear after lift of, but it went up at very healthy rate.
If I remember the rockets were for engine loss only. Made the DC3 very
masculine in appearance. BBB.
Transparency International
Way back in the 1970-80'ies I read an article in "Flying" about an american BN Trislander operator who had a RATO bottle installed to improve the OEI performance.
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JATO
............. from years ago .......... US Navy R4D [with JATO] operating in Antarctica - this eventful day was stuck fast to the ice - usual way to break was get the tail up, then cut back to see if the thump as the tail hit would free the skis - on this day after four or five attempts and still stuck fast, the JATO somehow lit up! ............. resulting hole in the ice supported the wings, with the nose pointing directly to the sky.
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Originally Posted by Tim Inder
Didn't the Luftwaffe experiment with a ZELL F-104 in the 1980s?
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.
Also I'm sure that the French Air force Mirage IIIEs and IVs had JATO units but I don't know whether they were used operationally although I have seen a photo of an operational Mirage IV taking off using JATO.
JATO and the F-84
Originally Posted by Tim Inder
Didn't the Luftwaffe experiment with a ZELL F-104 in the 1980s?
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.
Also, I'm sure the USAF used JATO to get F-84s etc. airborne in Korea.
http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/html_pgs/f-84-2.htm
but this is a test.. didn't the F-84 need a large length of runway? I think it was nicknamed the hog or superhog because of this...
Aviator Extraordinaire
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didn't the F-84 need a large length of runway?
There was an old joke about a 'short field takeoff kit' installed on the F-84. It consisted of a bag full of small rocks mounted in front of the nose gear. As the joke goes when the pilot wanted rotate he pulled a string to open the bag, the rocks would fall out in front on the nose wheel, the wheel would run over the rock and the airplane would leap into the air thinking it had run off the end of the runway.
Remember the F-84 did not have an afterburner (reheat).