Laker Airways
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Laker Airways
Freddie Laker
I am witing a book about the life of Freddie Laker from his early days in the ATA to the demise of Laker Airways in 1982.
Does anybody out there have any material that they would like to contribute towards this project, photographs, memrobilia etc.
I am witing a book about the life of Freddie Laker from his early days in the ATA to the demise of Laker Airways in 1982.
Does anybody out there have any material that they would like to contribute towards this project, photographs, memrobilia etc.
Laker Airlines
Flew them once - it was great. For passenger comfort their DC-10's were great but I was also young and flexible.
I was told the instant they went bust fares jumped in the res system. Travel agent friend told us she had never seen anything like it.
20driver
Flew them once - it was great. For passenger comfort their DC-10's were great but I was also young and flexible.
I was told the instant they went bust fares jumped in the res system. Travel agent friend told us she had never seen anything like it.
20driver
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to answer your question old boy, I have managed to collect quite a few photographs of that great company, my father was an aircraft engineer for freddie from the late 60's to 1982.
would be happy to send you copies of what I can.
and would love to have a copy of your book.
would be happy to send you copies of what I can.
and would love to have a copy of your book.
Many a happy trip with Laker to Menorca.
A sad early casualty of the vindictive ba who were determined that SkyTrain would fail - hence the vicious loss-leading undercutting dirty tricks campaign.
My last experience of Laker was when I took my lady friend and her mother to the airport only to find Laker in the process of collapsing. Eventually we were told to go back and contact them again the next day. After a night in London, we took turns waiting for news. In the afternoon we dropped in to their office and found that they had managed to charter a 707. So, leaving my little lady in the queue I raced off to find her mother, then rejoined her. We were able to book 2 tickets; her mother naively tried to pay with a cheque... Fortunately they took my Amex, so the cheque was made out to me instead - then I drove them off to the airport and Freddie flew them across the Atlantic.
I was definitely a Laker liker!
But not ba. I will never fly with them.
A sad early casualty of the vindictive ba who were determined that SkyTrain would fail - hence the vicious loss-leading undercutting dirty tricks campaign.
My last experience of Laker was when I took my lady friend and her mother to the airport only to find Laker in the process of collapsing. Eventually we were told to go back and contact them again the next day. After a night in London, we took turns waiting for news. In the afternoon we dropped in to their office and found that they had managed to charter a 707. So, leaving my little lady in the queue I raced off to find her mother, then rejoined her. We were able to book 2 tickets; her mother naively tried to pay with a cheque... Fortunately they took my Amex, so the cheque was made out to me instead - then I drove them off to the airport and Freddie flew them across the Atlantic.
I was definitely a Laker liker!
But not ba. I will never fly with them.
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Went to a BIM talk by Freddie Laker when he was running Laker Airlines and he was very proud of his administration and office set-up. He said that he had a large open plan office with all doors open (including his), internal communication was by shouting. He claimed that he missed nothing and, by hearing all that went on, was able to make his views known.
Did not strike me as a delegator and certainly not a person to seek advice from others - it later struck me that these management techniques and his derisory attitude to his peers, contributed in no small way to his eventual downfall.
How often have we seen people on the 'way up' with his sort of arrogance come to eventual grief, and how often is it the employees who suffer from the collapse while they walk away well heeled!
Mart
Did not strike me as a delegator and certainly not a person to seek advice from others - it later struck me that these management techniques and his derisory attitude to his peers, contributed in no small way to his eventual downfall.
How often have we seen people on the 'way up' with his sort of arrogance come to eventual grief, and how often is it the employees who suffer from the collapse while they walk away well heeled!
Mart
funfly:
So your entire experience of Laker Airways is that you went to a "BIM" talk by Fred?
Fred had a very remarkable management skill and it was that he knew absolutely everyone in the company. I was a fairly new DC-10 captain in Laker Airways and yet, despite now being in his 80s, he was still able to greet me by my Christian name at our recent reunion in September (which was a sell-out as usual).
Fred had no elevators in the building. If you wanted to talk to Fred and, I can assure you, he was available 24 hours a day then you had to walk up the same set of stairs that Fred did every morning. (You can't make money out of elevators).
Fred was loved (and still is) by his staff, management and pilots alike. He only ever fired one person and that was Charles Maxwell who was his man in North America. After a few hours he decided that this was probably a mistake and Charles was reinstated.
I absolutely loved flying with Laker and I have nothing but hate and venom for Lord King and his poisonous cronies who put us out of business.
So your entire experience of Laker Airways is that you went to a "BIM" talk by Fred?
Fred had a very remarkable management skill and it was that he knew absolutely everyone in the company. I was a fairly new DC-10 captain in Laker Airways and yet, despite now being in his 80s, he was still able to greet me by my Christian name at our recent reunion in September (which was a sell-out as usual).
Fred had no elevators in the building. If you wanted to talk to Fred and, I can assure you, he was available 24 hours a day then you had to walk up the same set of stairs that Fred did every morning. (You can't make money out of elevators).
Fred was loved (and still is) by his staff, management and pilots alike. He only ever fired one person and that was Charles Maxwell who was his man in North America. After a few hours he decided that this was probably a mistake and Charles was reinstated.
I absolutely loved flying with Laker and I have nothing but hate and venom for Lord King and his poisonous cronies who put us out of business.
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Well I did say that I only met him once!
Sorry, my contribution was not intended to be negative just to comment on his style of management, a perspective that had not been referred to in the thread before.
You confirm my observations about how he ran his business - what I have never realised is how much support he had from his staff and how well they thought of him. If that is the case I certainly had the wrong impression and my observations, and they were only that, generalising about winners and loosers was innapropriate.
Thank you for putting the record straight.
Sorry, my contribution was not intended to be negative just to comment on his style of management, a perspective that had not been referred to in the thread before.
You confirm my observations about how he ran his business - what I have never realised is how much support he had from his staff and how well they thought of him. If that is the case I certainly had the wrong impression and my observations, and they were only that, generalising about winners and loosers was innapropriate.
Thank you for putting the record straight.
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Flew with Laker several times across the pond. Other than the first trip when the seat pitch was, er, "rather tight" as the a/c had just come back from the annual Middle east excursion beginning with H, the others were a real joy.
I also knew several Laker engineers who swore blind by him. Why? Because they were allowed to get on with their work without interference from Ops, Dispatch etc and--unlike one "large airline" were treated with respect as both engineers and people. They had a pretty high dispatch rate as I recall so the philosophy clearly worked !. A sad day for aviation when he was forced out of business.
I also knew several Laker engineers who swore blind by him. Why? Because they were allowed to get on with their work without interference from Ops, Dispatch etc and--unlike one "large airline" were treated with respect as both engineers and people. They had a pretty high dispatch rate as I recall so the philosophy clearly worked !. A sad day for aviation when he was forced out of business.
funfly:
Thank you for that.
It has been very interesting watching what has happened to the big boys that ganged up against Fred in 1982.
BA's Lord King has gone. His biggest sidekick, Sir Adam Thomson, has gone as indeed has his precious BCAL. Pan Am, TWA, Swissair and SABENA have all disappeared in spectacular fashion and I am quite grateful that my pending retirement has nothing to do with the BA pension fund.
Fred has outlived the lot of them so perhaps there is some justice in the world after all!
Thank you for that.
It has been very interesting watching what has happened to the big boys that ganged up against Fred in 1982.
BA's Lord King has gone. His biggest sidekick, Sir Adam Thomson, has gone as indeed has his precious BCAL. Pan Am, TWA, Swissair and SABENA have all disappeared in spectacular fashion and I am quite grateful that my pending retirement has nothing to do with the BA pension fund.
Fred has outlived the lot of them so perhaps there is some justice in the world after all!
I can't be certain of the facts, but one story I did hear went something like this:-
Following the American Airlines DC10 crash at Chicago, when an engine and pylon detached during take-off, other DC10 operators had to check their fleet for engine/pylon mount integrity. Freddie was rumoured to have just rolled up his shirt sleeves, and helped his engineers to complete the task in the hangar. Was he an Airframe man from way back?
Following the American Airlines DC10 crash at Chicago, when an engine and pylon detached during take-off, other DC10 operators had to check their fleet for engine/pylon mount integrity. Freddie was rumoured to have just rolled up his shirt sleeves, and helped his engineers to complete the task in the hangar. Was he an Airframe man from way back?
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My Father was a DC10-30 Captain at the time Laker went bust. With about 3 other crew they then tried to start an airline using the Laker ac immediately afterwards but was thwarted by a fair amount of unknown interference.
I have plenty of fond memories of the airline - as does he. He still classes it one of the best companies ever to work for (and he's worked for a few). I think (even though it may now be described as a budget airline) it was the end of the golden age of airlines.
I have plenty of fond memories of the airline - as does he. He still classes it one of the best companies ever to work for (and he's worked for a few). I think (even though it may now be described as a budget airline) it was the end of the golden age of airlines.
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A good inside account of the engineered demise of Freddie is 'The Rape of an Airline', written by Laker's US lawyer,
One night in the Spring of 1981 he had some vivid dreams about not competing against himself anymore and he had boldly dropped the inclusive tour operators like Intasun, Arrowsmith, Nekermann.... companies that had already booked most of his seats 18 months into the future. Then Sir Freddie went about the onerous task of selling the seats himself. The famous back packers' walk-up fares out of JFK and LAX were strictly seasonal, and they didn't work at all out of TPA and MIA. And Walk-up fares became further restricted after the company had spent $Millions on wedgewood china and roomier seats to introduce Regency Class. Suddenly, his 345-pax DC10s were crossing the pond at less than 50% load factor, even at one-way fares as low as USD112 MIA-LGW.
Further complicating the lost revenue of empty seats was the collapse of the Sterling. His five brand new DC-10-30s were financed at an exchange rate of $2.25 per Pound.
There are no desperate situations, only desperate people.
...and buying a fleet of A300s for a "Skytrain Europe" with no route licences to operate them.
The so-called "dirty tricks" campaign were not the only reason Laker went bust. As GlueBall says he did tend to get carried away with big plans and jump in with both feet.
He may have been a great guy to work for but he was not perfect. If he was such a genius, how come his two later airlines also disappeared?
The so-called "dirty tricks" campaign were not the only reason Laker went bust. As GlueBall says he did tend to get carried away with big plans and jump in with both feet.
He may have been a great guy to work for but he was not perfect. If he was such a genius, how come his two later airlines also disappeared?
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THANKS GROUNDLOOP FOR SUCH AN INFORMED REPLY. I THINK TODAYS CLIMATE IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM WHEN SIR FREDDIE WAS GOT AT! AND LETS NOT FORGET HE STARTED ALL OF TODAYS NO FRILLS FLYING THAT SO MANY CARRIERS PRIDE THEMSELVES ON.
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Thoughts on Laker the Man and the Company
I have followed this thread with more than idle interest and whilst my views of Laker are Personal with a capital P, it has been interesting to see how my sometimes conflicting views of both the Man and the Company that have been 'played out' on this thread.
Freddie Laker has assured his place in British Airline and Civil Aviation History (Channel Air Bridge, Aviation Traders, MD of BUA and of course Laker Airways, just some highlights).
Whilst Skytrain tends to be considered the defining Laker moment, at least in the minds of the media (even all these years later) it should be treated perhaps more as the culmination of Lakers British Aviation journey.
Being reminded of his iconic status is, for me at least, is refreshed each year when the Freddie Awards are announced (which I believe he regularly attends and this is despite him having ceased to be an active force even on the US scene some years ago).
Although never a Laker employee, I can testify to the intense loyalty of Laker Staff, in some cases bordering on 'idolisation' and any one who has that level of charismatic leadership is someone special.
So we have a charismatic entrepreneur who had an understanding long before Branson of how to work the media and as described in this thread a very 'hands on approach' to his business.
All good stuff, or is it!
I having dealt with Laker Airways (before Skytrain) certain elements of that companies operational activities did not sit well with me (or my colleagues). As the modus operandi came from the top, this meant that Freddie probably not only approved, but initiated these procedures.
As for Skytrain, its long term success depended on a large number of economic variables remaining favourable. Whilst Freddie in showman mode could and did ensure a too successful launch (the Gatwick camp for hopeful passengers springs to mind) there was no way he could hope to influence macro economics. In addition Skytrain required that other carriers on the North Atlantic run, would not have an effective response, at least until a stable market position and share had been established.
Well the 'infamous' trio of British Airways, Pan Am and British Caledonian, did react apparently about as 'violently' as was possible. In the case of BCAL this probably was a fight for survival issue (although I was far too low on the BCAL totem pole to be aware of this type of issue) and as Pan Am's decline had reached a dangerous stage, they also probably saw Skytrain in a similar light. As for Lord King, I think BCAL was an irritant that politically he couldn't at that stage deal with, but he wasn't going to countenance another.
In any fight where survival is the prize, there is almost certainly going to be at least one death.
As pointed out by both Glueball and Groundloop, the entrepreneur side of the Laker character (a precursor to Harry Goodman in the very early 1990's) ensured disaster. On a roll and riding high Sky Train Europe was the next logical step and the big Airbus Order seemed like a really good idea.
But macro economics meant suddenly costs were very high and revenue was falling like a stone.
Game over!
When Laker Airways ceased operations, I was very sad for the staff, but also relieved that probably I would have a job next year. The Airline business is a cruel world and today’s winners are tomorrow’s losers. So as JW411 pointed out, both Pan Am and BCAL are no more although the implied crowing over the sad death of Sir Adam Thomson and indeed the pain caused to his family during his final illness is regrettable.
I only had two close encounters with Freddie Laker.
Like funfly, I attended only one public talk he gave and I have to say if this was my only knowledge of the Man my opinions would be exactly those expressed in funfly’s original post!
My second encounter was when Adam Thomson personally authorised an unlimited delay on a Jersey Service so Freddie Laker (this is post Laker Airways collapse) could get to a meeting (I assume for the creditors of Laker Airways Jersey Limited). 100+ passengers suffered a 45 Minute delay so a Man on an FOC Ticket could arrive in his Rolls (the only Roller with a Ramp pass) at the Aircraft Steps. A performance that left a Bad Taste in my mouth for a long while.
DIH
Freddie Laker has assured his place in British Airline and Civil Aviation History (Channel Air Bridge, Aviation Traders, MD of BUA and of course Laker Airways, just some highlights).
Whilst Skytrain tends to be considered the defining Laker moment, at least in the minds of the media (even all these years later) it should be treated perhaps more as the culmination of Lakers British Aviation journey.
Being reminded of his iconic status is, for me at least, is refreshed each year when the Freddie Awards are announced (which I believe he regularly attends and this is despite him having ceased to be an active force even on the US scene some years ago).
Although never a Laker employee, I can testify to the intense loyalty of Laker Staff, in some cases bordering on 'idolisation' and any one who has that level of charismatic leadership is someone special.
So we have a charismatic entrepreneur who had an understanding long before Branson of how to work the media and as described in this thread a very 'hands on approach' to his business.
All good stuff, or is it!
I having dealt with Laker Airways (before Skytrain) certain elements of that companies operational activities did not sit well with me (or my colleagues). As the modus operandi came from the top, this meant that Freddie probably not only approved, but initiated these procedures.
As for Skytrain, its long term success depended on a large number of economic variables remaining favourable. Whilst Freddie in showman mode could and did ensure a too successful launch (the Gatwick camp for hopeful passengers springs to mind) there was no way he could hope to influence macro economics. In addition Skytrain required that other carriers on the North Atlantic run, would not have an effective response, at least until a stable market position and share had been established.
Well the 'infamous' trio of British Airways, Pan Am and British Caledonian, did react apparently about as 'violently' as was possible. In the case of BCAL this probably was a fight for survival issue (although I was far too low on the BCAL totem pole to be aware of this type of issue) and as Pan Am's decline had reached a dangerous stage, they also probably saw Skytrain in a similar light. As for Lord King, I think BCAL was an irritant that politically he couldn't at that stage deal with, but he wasn't going to countenance another.
In any fight where survival is the prize, there is almost certainly going to be at least one death.
As pointed out by both Glueball and Groundloop, the entrepreneur side of the Laker character (a precursor to Harry Goodman in the very early 1990's) ensured disaster. On a roll and riding high Sky Train Europe was the next logical step and the big Airbus Order seemed like a really good idea.
But macro economics meant suddenly costs were very high and revenue was falling like a stone.
Game over!
When Laker Airways ceased operations, I was very sad for the staff, but also relieved that probably I would have a job next year. The Airline business is a cruel world and today’s winners are tomorrow’s losers. So as JW411 pointed out, both Pan Am and BCAL are no more although the implied crowing over the sad death of Sir Adam Thomson and indeed the pain caused to his family during his final illness is regrettable.
I only had two close encounters with Freddie Laker.
Like funfly, I attended only one public talk he gave and I have to say if this was my only knowledge of the Man my opinions would be exactly those expressed in funfly’s original post!
My second encounter was when Adam Thomson personally authorised an unlimited delay on a Jersey Service so Freddie Laker (this is post Laker Airways collapse) could get to a meeting (I assume for the creditors of Laker Airways Jersey Limited). 100+ passengers suffered a 45 Minute delay so a Man on an FOC Ticket could arrive in his Rolls (the only Roller with a Ramp pass) at the Aircraft Steps. A performance that left a Bad Taste in my mouth for a long while.
DIH
Last edited by Opssys; 27th Nov 2005 at 16:52.