Fastest of the lot
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Definitions
OK so we need a definition - 'piston engined singles in production and service before the end of the War'.
What about someone 'normalising' the quoted speeds at varying altitudes to a common altitude?
Or consider the Blohn & Voss Bv 155B, also a star of "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" Vol 7.
Although only 2 prototypes flew, they were (allegedly) capably of a max speed of 428mph at 54,000 feet, thanks to a 'supercharger system [which] resulted in a loss of power output of only 380 hp at 49,000 feet'.
That's 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' for you!
What about someone 'normalising' the quoted speeds at varying altitudes to a common altitude?
Or consider the Blohn & Voss Bv 155B, also a star of "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" Vol 7.
Although only 2 prototypes flew, they were (allegedly) capably of a max speed of 428mph at 54,000 feet, thanks to a 'supercharger system [which] resulted in a loss of power output of only 380 hp at 49,000 feet'.
That's 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' for you!
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I found some stuff about the Spiteful which went through several marks. The xvi made 494mph. More here.
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
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Think the wing of the Spiteful was lifted (no pun intended) and stuck on to the Supermarine Attacker - the RNs' first jet (I hesitate to use the word "fighter")
Conan
Conan
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Again, the Spiteful never saw squadron service and I need to check my
Geoffrey Quill, but I THINK that it was felt that in service t would not
offer a worthwhile performance advantage over later marks of Spitfire.
So can I suggest splitting the question - one which has always puzzled me -
into two: fastest piston engined aircraft IN SERVICE during the Second World
War, and fastest piston engined aircraft PROTOTYPE TO FLY during the Second
World War?
If it is possible to get authoritative performance statistics then I could
revise from my Trevor Thom and use my whizz-wheel to try to adjust for
altitude, i.e., normalise to sea-level or to, say, 20,000 ft. I'd also like
to see these figures in knots rather than mph.
So, which aircraft should feature on the 'in-service' shortlist? I guess:
P47, P51, TA152, (not sure which variants) Tempest V, Spitfire Mk14 (were there faster marks in service before War's end?)
Geoffrey Quill, but I THINK that it was felt that in service t would not
offer a worthwhile performance advantage over later marks of Spitfire.
So can I suggest splitting the question - one which has always puzzled me -
into two: fastest piston engined aircraft IN SERVICE during the Second World
War, and fastest piston engined aircraft PROTOTYPE TO FLY during the Second
World War?
If it is possible to get authoritative performance statistics then I could
revise from my Trevor Thom and use my whizz-wheel to try to adjust for
altitude, i.e., normalise to sea-level or to, say, 20,000 ft. I'd also like
to see these figures in knots rather than mph.
So, which aircraft should feature on the 'in-service' shortlist? I guess:
P47, P51, TA152, (not sure which variants) Tempest V, Spitfire Mk14 (were there faster marks in service before War's end?)
Self Loathing Froggy
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Slightly off-topic : MB5
did some Google search on the MB5, found a replica being built in 1999 in Reno.
It was supposed to fly in2000.
Pic taken in 2003 (wasn't ready to fly yet)
Any news about it ?
MB5 history on the MB webpage
It was supposed to fly in2000.
Pic taken in 2003 (wasn't ready to fly yet)
Any news about it ?
MB5 history on the MB webpage
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Fastest piston single
What about the Ta152? I thought I read somewhere that the yanks saw 490+ mph in level flight in post-war flight testing of one.
Trouble is, there were so many fighters around the 430-440 mph mark (Spit MkIX onwards, P-51D/H, Me109G, Fw190D, F4U-1, P-47D, Yak-9(?), Typhoon/Tempest, Bearcat, Skyraider etc etc), who knows what did what on the optimum day/altitude/tuning etc.
Magoo
Trouble is, there were so many fighters around the 430-440 mph mark (Spit MkIX onwards, P-51D/H, Me109G, Fw190D, F4U-1, P-47D, Yak-9(?), Typhoon/Tempest, Bearcat, Skyraider etc etc), who knows what did what on the optimum day/altitude/tuning etc.
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Fastest WWII piston enginedaircraft...
I got a bit bored over the 'holiday season', so got out the ancient 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' (Vols 6 and 7) to try to get some answers to this post.
I put together an excel spreadsheet of the data from AFP. I've converted all speeds into knots, since that makes more sense for us today, but I am not sure how to convert these speeds to compensate for the different altitudes they are recorded at. I'm assuming that these are TAS rather than IAS but stand to be corrected.
Therefore I come up with this table for the fastest piston-engined fighters to fly OPERATIONALLY in the Second World War:
Aircraft Speed (kts) at Altitude (ft)
Focke Wulf TA152H 409.88 41,000
Focke Wulf FW190D 393.39 37,000
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV 390.78 "operating height"
North American P51E Mustang 390.78 "operating height"
Yak 3 (with M107A engine) 388.17 18,865
Focke Wulf FW190D 382.10 15,600
Hawker Tempest V 377.75 "operating height"
DH Mosquito Mk 34 369.07 30,500
Republic P47D Thunderbolt 356.04 "operating height"
Clearly there is an altitude issue here, so my guess is that the answer to this question is that the Spit 14 and the P51 probably more or less lied with the FW190. Perhaps this is not very surprising news?
Now for which was the fastest non-operational type. There are some for which I do not have data, such as the Do335 or the P47N, but for those I do the table looks like this:
Aircraft Speed (kts) at Altitude (ft)
Supermarine Spiteful 412.49 26,000
Supermarine Seafang 412.49 21,000
DH Hornet I & III 410.75 22,000
Vought XF4U-5 Corsair 401.20 31,400
North American P51H Mustang 399.46 "operating height"
Martin Baker MB5 399.46 20,000
Supermarine Spitfire Mk 22 394.25 26,000
Commonwealth CA15 390.78 "operating height"
Northrop Reporter 382.10 17,000
Hawker Sea Fury 382.10 21,000
DH Hornet I & III 380.36 10,000
Blohm und Voss BV155B 371.68 54,000
Of course this data is somewhat exposed to a 'Brit' bias, but I think it is interesting in showing a 20 knot-odd additional speed obtained by the Spiteful and the Hornet.
Can I throw this thread open again to others to query this data or add other data (if available) for these aircraft and for others...
Also, we need to try to make estimate TAS's at a common altitude, say 20,000?
I put together an excel spreadsheet of the data from AFP. I've converted all speeds into knots, since that makes more sense for us today, but I am not sure how to convert these speeds to compensate for the different altitudes they are recorded at. I'm assuming that these are TAS rather than IAS but stand to be corrected.
Therefore I come up with this table for the fastest piston-engined fighters to fly OPERATIONALLY in the Second World War:
Aircraft Speed (kts) at Altitude (ft)
Focke Wulf TA152H 409.88 41,000
Focke Wulf FW190D 393.39 37,000
Supermarine Spitfire Mk XIV 390.78 "operating height"
North American P51E Mustang 390.78 "operating height"
Yak 3 (with M107A engine) 388.17 18,865
Focke Wulf FW190D 382.10 15,600
Hawker Tempest V 377.75 "operating height"
DH Mosquito Mk 34 369.07 30,500
Republic P47D Thunderbolt 356.04 "operating height"
Clearly there is an altitude issue here, so my guess is that the answer to this question is that the Spit 14 and the P51 probably more or less lied with the FW190. Perhaps this is not very surprising news?
Now for which was the fastest non-operational type. There are some for which I do not have data, such as the Do335 or the P47N, but for those I do the table looks like this:
Aircraft Speed (kts) at Altitude (ft)
Supermarine Spiteful 412.49 26,000
Supermarine Seafang 412.49 21,000
DH Hornet I & III 410.75 22,000
Vought XF4U-5 Corsair 401.20 31,400
North American P51H Mustang 399.46 "operating height"
Martin Baker MB5 399.46 20,000
Supermarine Spitfire Mk 22 394.25 26,000
Commonwealth CA15 390.78 "operating height"
Northrop Reporter 382.10 17,000
Hawker Sea Fury 382.10 21,000
DH Hornet I & III 380.36 10,000
Blohm und Voss BV155B 371.68 54,000
Of course this data is somewhat exposed to a 'Brit' bias, but I think it is interesting in showing a 20 knot-odd additional speed obtained by the Spiteful and the Hornet.
Can I throw this thread open again to others to query this data or add other data (if available) for these aircraft and for others...
Also, we need to try to make estimate TAS's at a common altitude, say 20,000?
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I believe the P-47M was the fastest Jug. Powerplant boosted, otherwise same as a D model.
The P-47N had a constant-chord insert in the wing root, and the elliptical tip squared off to give the same span, but a few more square feet area. It was the long-range model for Pacific ops, IIRC, not as fast as the M.
The P-47N had a constant-chord insert in the wing root, and the elliptical tip squared off to give the same span, but a few more square feet area. It was the long-range model for Pacific ops, IIRC, not as fast as the M.
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Re: Fastest of the lot
Well I'm a bit surprised frankly, chaps.
I'm not a huge user of this Forum, but I was expecting all Hell to break loose around my ears when I published data indicating that the fastest piston-engined fighter IN SERVICE during the Second World War was the FW190D, and the fastest piston engined aircraft to FLY during the Second World War was the Spiteful (or Seafang - contra-rotating prop).
As these two questions had always a puzzle to me, and I can't believe I have the final answer(s) now, would anyone who's got any alternative ideas like to post? I'm wondering in particular whether anyone has any views on how accurate my 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' data is and whether they have access to more accurate data? For example, do 'Pilots Notes' for these types have accurate power curves which could give better and more directly comparable data? And equally, does anyone have data for some of the types I've missed off, such as the Do335.
I also expected, being a Brit, that my cousins from across the pond would have words to say about the 'Old World' tilt to my data...
Personally, I've always doubted whether the Do335 was actually as much of a rocket-ship as it is reputed to have been, though I recall Pierre Clostermann saying in 'The Big Show' that he bounced one in his Tempest V 'Vieux Charles', only to watch it open up its throttle(s) and draw ahead out of range...
But in the absense of any vociferous opposition, I'll assume that I have settled the issue in favour of Dr. Kurt Tank and Joe Smith..
I'm not a huge user of this Forum, but I was expecting all Hell to break loose around my ears when I published data indicating that the fastest piston-engined fighter IN SERVICE during the Second World War was the FW190D, and the fastest piston engined aircraft to FLY during the Second World War was the Spiteful (or Seafang - contra-rotating prop).
As these two questions had always a puzzle to me, and I can't believe I have the final answer(s) now, would anyone who's got any alternative ideas like to post? I'm wondering in particular whether anyone has any views on how accurate my 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' data is and whether they have access to more accurate data? For example, do 'Pilots Notes' for these types have accurate power curves which could give better and more directly comparable data? And equally, does anyone have data for some of the types I've missed off, such as the Do335.
I also expected, being a Brit, that my cousins from across the pond would have words to say about the 'Old World' tilt to my data...
Personally, I've always doubted whether the Do335 was actually as much of a rocket-ship as it is reputed to have been, though I recall Pierre Clostermann saying in 'The Big Show' that he bounced one in his Tempest V 'Vieux Charles', only to watch it open up its throttle(s) and draw ahead out of range...
But in the absense of any vociferous opposition, I'll assume that I have settled the issue in favour of Dr. Kurt Tank and Joe Smith..
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Re: Fastest of the lot
A quick search gives this result (http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/profile/d335hist.htm) .
With these performance numbers:
"In late 1944, the Do 335A-1 superseded the A-0 on the production line. This was the initial production model, similar to the A-0 but with the uprated DB603E-1 engines and two underwing hard points for additional bombs or drop tanks. Delivery commenced in January 1945.
Capable of a maximum speed of 474 mph at 21,325 ft with MW 50 boost, or 426 mph without boost, and able to climb to 26,250 ft in only 14.5 minutes, the Do 335A-1 could easily outpace any Allied fighters it encountered. It could also carry a bomb load of 1100 lb for 900 miles.
Although given the nickname 'Pfeil' (arrow) by Dornier test pilots, on account of its speed, service pilots quickly dubbed it 'Ameisenbaer' (ant- eater) because of its long nose."
Wonder if this started the Dornier tradition of always designing the fastest version of an obsolete type of aircraft (Do-227, -328).
With these performance numbers:
"In late 1944, the Do 335A-1 superseded the A-0 on the production line. This was the initial production model, similar to the A-0 but with the uprated DB603E-1 engines and two underwing hard points for additional bombs or drop tanks. Delivery commenced in January 1945.
Capable of a maximum speed of 474 mph at 21,325 ft with MW 50 boost, or 426 mph without boost, and able to climb to 26,250 ft in only 14.5 minutes, the Do 335A-1 could easily outpace any Allied fighters it encountered. It could also carry a bomb load of 1100 lb for 900 miles.
Although given the nickname 'Pfeil' (arrow) by Dornier test pilots, on account of its speed, service pilots quickly dubbed it 'Ameisenbaer' (ant- eater) because of its long nose."
Wonder if this started the Dornier tradition of always designing the fastest version of an obsolete type of aircraft (Do-227, -328).
