Commentators
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Biggleswade
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Commentators
In another thread and in reply to a comment I made on a question about commentators, Redsnail wrote:
'The main purpose of the commentator is to excite the crowd. Not every one who goes to a show knows why they should go ooh ahh at aircraft. The enthusiast is already excited .............'
I wanted to reply, but in the meantime, CamelPilot has been doing some tidying and has closed the thread.
Soooooo how about a new one, thought I, as I do feel the issue is worth airing.
The first and foremost job that a commentator has is to control the crowd in the event of an accident. As airshow organisers, what we want is a cool calm laying on of hands and a quiet benign audience. That way, the emergency services have direct and simple access to the site. Consider the opposite effect of mass panic and the whole spectator enclosure trying to exit at the same time.
John Blake was a master of the technique. His method was legendary, I think all he said at Old Warden following the Slingsby crash was: "...I think he's gone in...", but he said it in such a way as to calm the crowd. The emergency services arrived with no incident and the display continued shortly afterwards.
All the Old Warden commentators go through refresher training with the pilots during pre-season work-up - it's an essential part of the safety process. But what we don't do is tell hem what to say, except, perhaps, to be quiet from time to time when interesing engines are flying past. The content of their commentary is up to them, althouh we do provide some printed notes.
As with the pilots, if the commentators were all the same, it would eventually get very boring, and as said in the other thread, for every complaint we get for a commentator, we get a letter of praise......
Over to you.
'The main purpose of the commentator is to excite the crowd. Not every one who goes to a show knows why they should go ooh ahh at aircraft. The enthusiast is already excited .............'
I wanted to reply, but in the meantime, CamelPilot has been doing some tidying and has closed the thread.
Soooooo how about a new one, thought I, as I do feel the issue is worth airing.
The first and foremost job that a commentator has is to control the crowd in the event of an accident. As airshow organisers, what we want is a cool calm laying on of hands and a quiet benign audience. That way, the emergency services have direct and simple access to the site. Consider the opposite effect of mass panic and the whole spectator enclosure trying to exit at the same time.
John Blake was a master of the technique. His method was legendary, I think all he said at Old Warden following the Slingsby crash was: "...I think he's gone in...", but he said it in such a way as to calm the crowd. The emergency services arrived with no incident and the display continued shortly afterwards.
All the Old Warden commentators go through refresher training with the pilots during pre-season work-up - it's an essential part of the safety process. But what we don't do is tell hem what to say, except, perhaps, to be quiet from time to time when interesing engines are flying past. The content of their commentary is up to them, althouh we do provide some printed notes.
As with the pilots, if the commentators were all the same, it would eventually get very boring, and as said in the other thread, for every complaint we get for a commentator, we get a letter of praise......
Over to you.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well there you go then, I've been wrong all these years thinking a commentator was there to commentate.
Airbedane offers
"The first and foremost job that a commentator has is to control the crowd in the event of an accident."
Me thinks organisers/participants of an airshow spend considerable time and energy trying to ensure accidents don't happen. But, yes, they do and mercifully infrequently.
Should one happen then a"Crowd Control" role for a commentator would be the effective use of that resource. The commentators role would be clearly defined in the emergency response plan for the event. That plan would also define access lanes, assembly points and co-ordination centres in such an event. Having access lanes through a crowd area is not acceptable and would be rectified during the event planning phase.
Crowd evacuation is also covered by the ERP.
Old Warden was mentioned a couple of times and seems to hold some revered place, does it have a ERP
To suggest commentators primary role is crowd control overstates their important though commentating role.
ding
Airbedane offers
"The first and foremost job that a commentator has is to control the crowd in the event of an accident."
Me thinks organisers/participants of an airshow spend considerable time and energy trying to ensure accidents don't happen. But, yes, they do and mercifully infrequently.
Should one happen then a"Crowd Control" role for a commentator would be the effective use of that resource. The commentators role would be clearly defined in the emergency response plan for the event. That plan would also define access lanes, assembly points and co-ordination centres in such an event. Having access lanes through a crowd area is not acceptable and would be rectified during the event planning phase.
Crowd evacuation is also covered by the ERP.
Old Warden was mentioned a couple of times and seems to hold some revered place, does it have a ERP
To suggest commentators primary role is crowd control overstates their important though commentating role.
ding
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a good pub (I wish!)
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbedane, you might get even more flack on this thread than you might wish to get!
In general I think you've got a pretty good mix of commentators, I know I've whinged already about Jeremy Spake, he's the only one who really annoys me (and all my friends, not one having a good word).
Yes John Blake was wonderful. He gives OW the special garden party atmosphere which makes it different from all the other shows. OW needs a commentator with the John Arlott or Brian Johnston touch, painting a picture, giving interesting anecdotes. They, after all for cricket, would have none-cricket lovers listening for their dulcett tones and intelligent conversation. That element will help entertain the wives, partners and children unwillingly dragged along to OW. Yet they also presented the game for a professional to appreciate. IMHO that is the balance needed by the commentators.
Two names have been suggested: John Farley and G-KEST, can you influence them to give commentating a try at OW?
Hoping to be there on Sunday 5th September. That shows that even whingers only do it because we love OW so much!
ATB, regards H
In general I think you've got a pretty good mix of commentators, I know I've whinged already about Jeremy Spake, he's the only one who really annoys me (and all my friends, not one having a good word).
Yes John Blake was wonderful. He gives OW the special garden party atmosphere which makes it different from all the other shows. OW needs a commentator with the John Arlott or Brian Johnston touch, painting a picture, giving interesting anecdotes. They, after all for cricket, would have none-cricket lovers listening for their dulcett tones and intelligent conversation. That element will help entertain the wives, partners and children unwillingly dragged along to OW. Yet they also presented the game for a professional to appreciate. IMHO that is the balance needed by the commentators.
Two names have been suggested: John Farley and G-KEST, can you influence them to give commentating a try at OW?
Hoping to be there on Sunday 5th September. That shows that even whingers only do it because we love OW so much!
ATB, regards H
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Gone.........for good this time.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbedane,
Have you ever tested the likes of 'that TV luvvie' in a stressful emergency situation? Do you know for sure that he will be able to resist uttering some insensitive comment about the Lysander in times of stress, god forbid?? I'm not 100% sure he would, reverting to type & being a TV luvvie. John Blake had the experience and the knowledge, and yes, had his own style, but he knew what to say, even if it was said tongue in cheek..
Barry Tempest gets my vote, saw him in action last weekend at Gransden!
Have you ever tested the likes of 'that TV luvvie' in a stressful emergency situation? Do you know for sure that he will be able to resist uttering some insensitive comment about the Lysander in times of stress, god forbid?? I'm not 100% sure he would, reverting to type & being a TV luvvie. John Blake had the experience and the knowledge, and yes, had his own style, but he knew what to say, even if it was said tongue in cheek..
Barry Tempest gets my vote, saw him in action last weekend at Gransden!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 5nm NE of EGTC
Age: 69
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another priceless quality for a commentator is knowing when to talk and, more importantly, when to shut up. John Blake has this knack, as do David Ogilvie and Sean Maffet.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In a good pub (I wish!)
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbedane et al at OW, including the commentator and especially the met man. THANK YOU FOR A WONDERFUL DISPLAY ON SUNDAY 5TH. To see all five Edwardians take to the air was memorable. Well done to all involved, especially the unsung groundcrew.
It was a very special day, and whoever organised the weather deserves a medal.
The commentator was good, kept quiet for the Sptifire finale, well done him. Was let down a bit by not having all the notes he needed, but his tone and style went down well with us. He even managed to control the excitable Debs to just about acceptable! We'll be very happy to hear him again ( hasn't he done a couple of others this year?)
A few thoughts for him:
He spoke about the right amount of time for each display item, quiet moments are useful for certain displays.
As suggested on that other thread, laminated notes on the history, details, performances,etc. for each aeroplane for him to refer to. Including a few annecdotes from the pilots and engineers.
Ditto for the pilots, a potted biography of each. He only seemd to know two names; A Sephton and P Holloway. He doesn't need to tell us about the pilots, only to use the info to help fill out a commentary as appropriate.
Some lost opportunities: eg when the toilet paper was floating to the ground with comments about litter all over Bedfordshire, time to gently remind the crowd to pick up any litter they see?
He did tell the crowd about the SVAS gazebo and the benefits of membership. But at the end of the show why not sign off with a reminder to pop by there to enrole and also to drop into the shop. To think a bit latterally (spelling?) to see how his commentary can lead into other items of benefit to OW.
Whoever decided to close down the gazebo and shop early deserves a slap wrist. Lots of people milling around more than half an hour after the show. Besides the beer shed, nowhere to spend their money. On a glorious day like Sunday was, many will leave their shopping until the end (I did), not wishing to miss a single part of a super display. So my money will be spent elsewhere now! As will that of several people seen walking away from the shop muttering.
A thank you to all for a super day. ATB H
It was a very special day, and whoever organised the weather deserves a medal.
The commentator was good, kept quiet for the Sptifire finale, well done him. Was let down a bit by not having all the notes he needed, but his tone and style went down well with us. He even managed to control the excitable Debs to just about acceptable! We'll be very happy to hear him again ( hasn't he done a couple of others this year?)
A few thoughts for him:
He spoke about the right amount of time for each display item, quiet moments are useful for certain displays.
As suggested on that other thread, laminated notes on the history, details, performances,etc. for each aeroplane for him to refer to. Including a few annecdotes from the pilots and engineers.
Ditto for the pilots, a potted biography of each. He only seemd to know two names; A Sephton and P Holloway. He doesn't need to tell us about the pilots, only to use the info to help fill out a commentary as appropriate.
Some lost opportunities: eg when the toilet paper was floating to the ground with comments about litter all over Bedfordshire, time to gently remind the crowd to pick up any litter they see?
He did tell the crowd about the SVAS gazebo and the benefits of membership. But at the end of the show why not sign off with a reminder to pop by there to enrole and also to drop into the shop. To think a bit latterally (spelling?) to see how his commentary can lead into other items of benefit to OW.
Whoever decided to close down the gazebo and shop early deserves a slap wrist. Lots of people milling around more than half an hour after the show. Besides the beer shed, nowhere to spend their money. On a glorious day like Sunday was, many will leave their shopping until the end (I did), not wishing to miss a single part of a super display. So my money will be spent elsewhere now! As will that of several people seen walking away from the shop muttering.
A thank you to all for a super day. ATB H
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Gone.........for good this time.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A cracking show, well done to the commentator whoever he was. And please lets have some more of the lovely lady who assisted him during the barnstorming display. Who is she?
I dont know who did the RIAT this year but it was frustrating. Several times the departing aircraft was not announced and whose bright idea was it to put the speakers on the crowdline - I lost count of how many pictures have pole or speaker in them. Could they not follow Farnborough's example and put the PA system behind the crowd - giving unobstructed views. Perhaps a 'quiet zone' with no speakers for those who would rather not listen could be considered.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Covering the Commonwealth
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tricky one. I find most commentators irritating to awful, and generally end up ignoring them.
As regards crowd control vs commentating, you've got a classic risk analysis. Luckily, what they mostly do is commentate. It's low risk, high profile & everyday (thus important). Against crowd control when it goes wrong which happens rarely, and is critical.
I take your point Airbedane, but let's recognise that they are mostly commentating, and work on that, and (as Zlin said) I have little confidence in some luvvies as to their ability in a difficult situation.
The chap on Sunday at the Pagent didn't impress at first, but he did seem to work the crowd, and did the job for mum, dad & the kids. His intro and silence for the stunning Spitfire display was excellent.
Roger Hoefling (sp?) was the only commentator who cut the mustard for me, but no longer appears at OW, could be a bit dry and dull, but did his homework FIRST and knew his stuff. Franly, most are weak on at least one or two acts - must try harder Curruthers!
John Blake has a lot to offer. He was, however, stunningly out of date on his info in the 80s and 90s OW shows; frankly his notes seemed to be pre-1977. Current info is important!
David Ogilvy used to be excellent, knows OW very well, but has wandered off on a hobby horse or two last few times I've heard him.
James Gilbert was good, I thought, and like John Blake does the avunclular Test Match Special type of job, but I recognise while I like his sense of humour, it's a bit dry and sardonic for some.
No easy answer, but thanks for asking. At the moment I don't go expecting a familiar face atthe mike, but the changes have been better than settling on one candidate, IMHO.
Cheers
James K
As regards crowd control vs commentating, you've got a classic risk analysis. Luckily, what they mostly do is commentate. It's low risk, high profile & everyday (thus important). Against crowd control when it goes wrong which happens rarely, and is critical.
I take your point Airbedane, but let's recognise that they are mostly commentating, and work on that, and (as Zlin said) I have little confidence in some luvvies as to their ability in a difficult situation.
The chap on Sunday at the Pagent didn't impress at first, but he did seem to work the crowd, and did the job for mum, dad & the kids. His intro and silence for the stunning Spitfire display was excellent.
Roger Hoefling (sp?) was the only commentator who cut the mustard for me, but no longer appears at OW, could be a bit dry and dull, but did his homework FIRST and knew his stuff. Franly, most are weak on at least one or two acts - must try harder Curruthers!
John Blake has a lot to offer. He was, however, stunningly out of date on his info in the 80s and 90s OW shows; frankly his notes seemed to be pre-1977. Current info is important!
David Ogilvy used to be excellent, knows OW very well, but has wandered off on a hobby horse or two last few times I've heard him.
James Gilbert was good, I thought, and like John Blake does the avunclular Test Match Special type of job, but I recognise while I like his sense of humour, it's a bit dry and sardonic for some.
No easy answer, but thanks for asking. At the moment I don't go expecting a familiar face atthe mike, but the changes have been better than settling on one candidate, IMHO.
Cheers
James K
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Major Oliver Stewart of Farnborough fame was the ultimate - made this year's effort sound pitiful, whoever he was - all the crap about ringing ATC to find out what was happening... and the mic open all the time. Utterly appallingly dreadful.
