The Concorde thread (Don't start a separate one!)
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I don't think there was a "plan to get rid of Concorde" within BA. Agree.
"The decision was sprung upon them." No. Suddenly being forced to make a decision one way or the other was sprung on BA.
"Airbus pulled the plug." No. BA made a commercial decision not to pay the £10m a year Airbus wanted for support due Concorde losing money for the last couple of years.
Maybe right or maybe shortsighted, but that was BA's decision!
"The decision was sprung upon them." No. Suddenly being forced to make a decision one way or the other was sprung on BA.
"Airbus pulled the plug." No. BA made a commercial decision not to pay the £10m a year Airbus wanted for support due Concorde losing money for the last couple of years.
Maybe right or maybe shortsighted, but that was BA's decision!
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Sorry Alty Meter, your post is absolute rubbish.
Retiring Concorde has resulted in £84 million write-off costs for the year ending March 2003. According to your good self, that would have paid for at least 6 years of continued Concorde operation. I don't think so...............
The figure Airbus wanted was pitched at the level as to make it unachieveable. The French bottled it, Air France is being privatised, Airbus is a French company (no matter what BAE think) and there was no way that Airbus was going to allow BA to become the only supersonic airline in the world. After all, in 5 years the economy would have picked up and BA holding out would have been seen as a prudent decision whilst making Air France look extremely stupid.
What you are essentially arguing is that BA spent more money on cancelling her than would have taken to keep her alive. Not a tenable position methinks!
Retiring Concorde has resulted in £84 million write-off costs for the year ending March 2003. According to your good self, that would have paid for at least 6 years of continued Concorde operation. I don't think so...............
The figure Airbus wanted was pitched at the level as to make it unachieveable. The French bottled it, Air France is being privatised, Airbus is a French company (no matter what BAE think) and there was no way that Airbus was going to allow BA to become the only supersonic airline in the world. After all, in 5 years the economy would have picked up and BA holding out would have been seen as a prudent decision whilst making Air France look extremely stupid.
What you are essentially arguing is that BA spent more money on cancelling her than would have taken to keep her alive. Not a tenable position methinks!
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Listening to the argument put forward by BA for the withdrawl of Concorde from service it appears to be very much a case of "blame Airbus".
Were BAE systems approached about keeping Concorde flying directly without the input of Airbus? I mean I'm sure that BAE would be open to negotiation given that we have virtually ceased manufacturing our own aircraft in this country. John Hutchinson actually made this point as part of the BBCs coverage but other than that I have heard no other suggestions about over coming this probelm.
Were BAE systems approached about keeping Concorde flying directly without the input of Airbus? I mean I'm sure that BAE would be open to negotiation given that we have virtually ceased manufacturing our own aircraft in this country. John Hutchinson actually made this point as part of the BBCs coverage but other than that I have heard no other suggestions about over coming this probelm.
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When is Concorde due to fly back into EGCC
It has been confirmed that one of British Airways Concorde
will be returning to Manchester to be eventually displayed
in the aviation viewing park area as a museum piece.
Rumour has it that it may be returning on Friday the 31st October.
Does anyone know what date and if possible what time the aircraft may be intending to return to her retirement home
as the chance to see this piece of history land one final time
is something that should be experienced.
Can I also ask the moderators to consider possibly leaving
this post on the Rumours and News forum so as to have
more chance being seen by someone in the know who can
shed light on this question.
Regards EGCC 4284.
will be returning to Manchester to be eventually displayed
in the aviation viewing park area as a museum piece.
Rumour has it that it may be returning on Friday the 31st October.
Does anyone know what date and if possible what time the aircraft may be intending to return to her retirement home
as the chance to see this piece of history land one final time
is something that should be experienced.
Can I also ask the moderators to consider possibly leaving
this post on the Rumours and News forum so as to have
more chance being seen by someone in the know who can
shed light on this question.
Regards EGCC 4284.
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What you are essentially arguing is that BA spent more money on cancelling her than would have taken to keep her alive. Not a tenable position methinks!
Isn't that one of the points the pro-Concorde lobby in BA made?
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No. That point has never been made because it's incorrect. What's important to remember is that the numbers that Airbus discussed were not even unrealistic, they were impossible. The numbers that they wanted were designed to make sure that BA could never accept them....also, they kept changing........always in the upwards direction.
Pro-Concorde people in BA have lamented the fact that a successful operation with many years of life left to run has been prematurely brought to an end becuase 50% of the required total to run the operation have removed themselves.
Why have the French removed themselves? Lack of will after Paris; lack of business following that ludicrous "Freedom Fries" boycott; shedding of unprofitable units prior to privatisation/KLM-takeover; historical contrast of US corporate offices in Paris as opposed to London......the reasons go on and on.
But the fact remains that BA wanted to operate to 2007 (the planned Re-Life date), this was substantially reduced in April......Airbus wanted to cancel all Concorde services (of both airlines) there and then....Air France were in the middle of a C check and BA were about to order the mod parts for AA and AB. BA fought tooth and nail to be allowed to fly until October.
To me that doesn't sound like an airline that wanted to get rid of their flagship.
Pro-Concorde people in BA have lamented the fact that a successful operation with many years of life left to run has been prematurely brought to an end becuase 50% of the required total to run the operation have removed themselves.
Why have the French removed themselves? Lack of will after Paris; lack of business following that ludicrous "Freedom Fries" boycott; shedding of unprofitable units prior to privatisation/KLM-takeover; historical contrast of US corporate offices in Paris as opposed to London......the reasons go on and on.
But the fact remains that BA wanted to operate to 2007 (the planned Re-Life date), this was substantially reduced in April......Airbus wanted to cancel all Concorde services (of both airlines) there and then....Air France were in the middle of a C check and BA were about to order the mod parts for AA and AB. BA fought tooth and nail to be allowed to fly until October.
To me that doesn't sound like an airline that wanted to get rid of their flagship.
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I was out of the UK at the time of the last flights so I was pretty disappointed to miss them. I've seen an ad in the papers for Concorde prints signed by Jock Lowe but is there anything similar available through PPrune like the TSR2 prints? I'd rather donate my pension money to a deserving cause.
Thanks
Thanks
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum
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I've seen an ad in the papers for Concorde prints signed by Jock Lowe but is there anything similar available through PPrune like the TSR2 prints?
Ditched work last Friday to get home to watch the telly. I know it is not the done thing for a grown man, and an Englishman stiff upper lip and all that, to cry, but allowed myself a tear for the finale.
Cpncorde resting places
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NEWS EXPECTED FROM BA TODAY, A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT on where aircraft will go.
BBC News suggested at 5pm yesterday that BA had made up their minds already and that it was definite no Concorde would be kept flying. All to Museums etc.
So far it looks like..
AA- Poss retain at LHR for T5
AB- Poss To East Fortune, Scotland
AC- Manchester viewing park
AD- New York City "Intrepid" floating barge
AE- Seattle Boeing Musuem Flight
AF- Bristol, Filton "Pause to Remember" titles added recently
AG- private Collector / Consortium Barbados BGI
This will ALL be confirmed by a British Airways press announcement TODAY.
BBC News suggested at 5pm yesterday that BA had made up their minds already and that it was definite no Concorde would be kept flying. All to Museums etc.
So far it looks like..
AA- Poss retain at LHR for T5
AB- Poss To East Fortune, Scotland
AC- Manchester viewing park
AD- New York City "Intrepid" floating barge
AE- Seattle Boeing Musuem Flight
AF- Bristol, Filton "Pause to Remember" titles added recently
AG- private Collector / Consortium Barbados BGI
This will ALL be confirmed by a British Airways press announcement TODAY.
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Just a few deatils
I think AA and AB will be the other way round
G-BOAA- Poss To East Fortune, Scotland
G-BOAB- Poss retain at LHR for T5
BA have put AB back together so would not be doing this if it was going to be taken apart again!
I think AA and AB will be the other way round
G-BOAA- Poss To East Fortune, Scotland
G-BOAB- Poss retain at LHR for T5
BA have put AB back together so would not be doing this if it was going to be taken apart again!
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Thks for the update folks.
Thats the reason why I put "poss" as possibly...
Didnt know status of reassembly AA/AB - would make good sense not to tear it down again.
Strange to have those "Pause to remember" titles on then off again... wierd. Maybe it was only for photos & publicity.
1245z and still no announcement from BA.... waiting....
Thats the reason why I put "poss" as possibly...
Didnt know status of reassembly AA/AB - would make good sense not to tear it down again.
Strange to have those "Pause to remember" titles on then off again... wierd. Maybe it was only for photos & publicity.
1245z and still no announcement from BA.... waiting....
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BA Press release now available here: http://www.britishairways.com/press/...e=RHG_press_en
sadly confirms no Concorde will be kept flying.
sadly confirms no Concorde will be kept flying.
Thought police antagonist
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Am I alone, ( probably I am ) in being aware of the irony of a Concorde being located at Manchester ------next to a Hangar that was formerly occupied by BA Engineering--not to mention the people that were made redundant from the facility. Still, another PR coup for all those concerned no doubt.
