Vulcan XH558 - not good news?
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Vulcan XH558 - not good news?
Seen on a Yahoo! group I belong to:
'Hi All
At the weekend I spoke to Dr Pleming at Bruntingthorpe and enquired as to the status of the HLF application.An answer is expected towards the end of the year.However the project is on borrowed time because they could be on notice to quit if the application is not successful and as a result XH558 would probably be cut up on sight.I would urge anyone who wishes to see this project succeed to E-Mail the Heritage Lottery Fund in support of the grant application.Oh by the way my ears are still ringing from the Lightning run,music to my ears.
Cheers
Steve Bartlett'
My heart drops at the thought of her being scrapped after all this.
'Hi All
At the weekend I spoke to Dr Pleming at Bruntingthorpe and enquired as to the status of the HLF application.An answer is expected towards the end of the year.However the project is on borrowed time because they could be on notice to quit if the application is not successful and as a result XH558 would probably be cut up on sight.I would urge anyone who wishes to see this project succeed to E-Mail the Heritage Lottery Fund in support of the grant application.Oh by the way my ears are still ringing from the Lightning run,music to my ears.
Cheers
Steve Bartlett'
My heart drops at the thought of her being scrapped after all this.
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Ah the old "if we dont get our way we'll throw our toys away" ploy.
I really hope I am wrong, but I have it on good authority that whatever way the HLF wind blows, she wont fly again for "other reasons". I dont want to go into specifics so as not to put any noses out of joint. I will re-check my sources and report back.
I really hope I am wrong, but I have it on good authority that whatever way the HLF wind blows, she wont fly again for "other reasons". I dont want to go into specifics so as not to put any noses out of joint. I will re-check my sources and report back.
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Just think of all the really worthwhile aircraft preservation projects that could have gone ahead with the money wasted on the flying Vulcan dream...
I've said it before and I see no reason to change my mind, the cost and effort involved in keeping the Vulcans airborne during the cold war days was horrendous. The idea that a group of enthusiasts could ever get one flying and keep it there, without a proper budget or significant financial resources, was always preposterous.
Its sad, but its time to face facts. The Vulcan can never fly again and there's lots of other precious and significant aeroplanes in need of restoration and preservation. If HLF money is to be spent on aircraft projects it should go where it will do the most good.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
I've said it before and I see no reason to change my mind, the cost and effort involved in keeping the Vulcans airborne during the cold war days was horrendous. The idea that a group of enthusiasts could ever get one flying and keep it there, without a proper budget or significant financial resources, was always preposterous.
Its sad, but its time to face facts. The Vulcan can never fly again and there's lots of other precious and significant aeroplanes in need of restoration and preservation. If HLF money is to be spent on aircraft projects it should go where it will do the most good.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Blacksheep,
I have to agree with you old chap, there is NO way this mighty lady will fly again (sadly) or should.
I have said it for a long time, and will say it yet again, this is yet another ploy by the owners to get more and more handouts.
If HJC is correct, what an absolutely disgraceful thing to do, cutting her up. What about the millions of ££ already donated by vast numbers of the public - do you think they will get their money back? maybe they will get a square inch of the skin or something to say thanks.
The sad fact is, that if Walton couldn't get the thing flying when the RAF 'gave it' to him, there is no way he is going to get it flying now, no matter who is 'on board' with the project.
Lastly, if Dr Pleming is reading this; why don't you come clean with us once and for all, and stop 'threatening' the british public?
If you are going to cut her up, get on with it, stop nicking money for her at airshows, and put us all out of our misery!
Just as a matter of fact, does the bird belong to Walton? or does it belong to the Nation? if the latter is correct, should we (the nation) not have a say in what happens to her, irrespective of what the Walton/Pleming bandwagon says?? If it belongs to Walton, we really must ask if its right for lottery money to be given to a private venture?
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, get me a large grouse me old bean!'
I have to agree with you old chap, there is NO way this mighty lady will fly again (sadly) or should.
I have said it for a long time, and will say it yet again, this is yet another ploy by the owners to get more and more handouts.
If HJC is correct, what an absolutely disgraceful thing to do, cutting her up. What about the millions of ££ already donated by vast numbers of the public - do you think they will get their money back? maybe they will get a square inch of the skin or something to say thanks.
The sad fact is, that if Walton couldn't get the thing flying when the RAF 'gave it' to him, there is no way he is going to get it flying now, no matter who is 'on board' with the project.
Lastly, if Dr Pleming is reading this; why don't you come clean with us once and for all, and stop 'threatening' the british public?
If you are going to cut her up, get on with it, stop nicking money for her at airshows, and put us all out of our misery!
Just as a matter of fact, does the bird belong to Walton? or does it belong to the Nation? if the latter is correct, should we (the nation) not have a say in what happens to her, irrespective of what the Walton/Pleming bandwagon says?? If it belongs to Walton, we really must ask if its right for lottery money to be given to a private venture?
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, get me a large grouse me old bean!'
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Just checked my facts, there are time (as in days since manufacture) lifed parts within the engine that it would be nigh on impossible to replace.
This doesn't mean to say it wont happen, but as I understand support from where its needed isn't exacly overwhelming.
That said I bloody well hope I am wrong.
This doesn't mean to say it wont happen, but as I understand support from where its needed isn't exacly overwhelming.
That said I bloody well hope I am wrong.
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There maybe NO way the Vulcan can fly again due to lack of funds but she definately SHOULD fly again.
There is nothing wrong with the lottery giving the Vulcan some money to get it in the air again even if it is a private venture.
The Vulcan would give pleasure to thousands of people at airshows up and down the country as it was The showstopper and people want to see it in the air again.
The lottery wasted millions upon millions on the Dome and what the Vulcan needs to fly again is just a tiny fraction of that.
As far as I can see these people have battled hard to get the Vulcan flying and I don't think it was preposterous for them to try.
There is nothing wrong with the lottery giving the Vulcan some money to get it in the air again even if it is a private venture.
The Vulcan would give pleasure to thousands of people at airshows up and down the country as it was The showstopper and people want to see it in the air again.
The lottery wasted millions upon millions on the Dome and what the Vulcan needs to fly again is just a tiny fraction of that.
As far as I can see these people have battled hard to get the Vulcan flying and I don't think it was preposterous for them to try.
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I’m not going to get involved in the debate as to if the Vulcan can ever fly again… I would have to say thought that I must disagree with Peter B (sorry Peter!). While in principle, I’d fully agree to the HLF providing the money for the restoration, I can’t agree that they should have the money regardless of who it belongs to i.e. Mr Walton. If it’s Mr Walton’s bird, then he must provide the money for the restoration, if the aircraft belongs to ‘the nation’ then I agree that HLF should cough up the cash.
And then we hear the threat of cutting her up… Why? What is the reason or justification for cutting her up? What Mr Walton bought was a static Vulcan that could be taxied… I’ll never forget this big cheese (forgive me but I forget your name Mr Big Cheese - Sir!) from the RAF handing over the 700 to Mr Walton… The conversation went something like…
Big Cheese – She was our aircraft… She’s now yours. I trust you’ll take care of her.
Mr Walton – Oh of course I will!
I’d hardly say that cutting her up is looking after her.
Only time will tell!
And then we hear the threat of cutting her up… Why? What is the reason or justification for cutting her up? What Mr Walton bought was a static Vulcan that could be taxied… I’ll never forget this big cheese (forgive me but I forget your name Mr Big Cheese - Sir!) from the RAF handing over the 700 to Mr Walton… The conversation went something like…
Big Cheese – She was our aircraft… She’s now yours. I trust you’ll take care of her.
Mr Walton – Oh of course I will!
I’d hardly say that cutting her up is looking after her.
Only time will tell!
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Part of the lottery bid is that the aircraft is sold to a Trust to look after it from then on; if the bid is successful that is. So it would not be some private individual's toy; on retirement it would go to a national museum.
I have never heard anyone involved in the project say anything about scrapping the aircraft but get all worked up about rumour and hearsay if you like chaps
As for engine parts - as far as I'm aware there are several spare zero time engines waiting to go and no parts problem exists. The only major issue I know of regarding the airframe's suitability for flight is a mod to the tailfin that is required - this will be carried out on a spare tailfin which will then be fitted in place of the current one.
The only obstacle to the return to flight is, I'm assured, money of the lack thereof. And perhaps people's attitudes...
Mind you TVOC are not doing well at communicating how things are going - so it is hardly surprising they are getting the flak seen above.
I have never heard anyone involved in the project say anything about scrapping the aircraft but get all worked up about rumour and hearsay if you like chaps
As for engine parts - as far as I'm aware there are several spare zero time engines waiting to go and no parts problem exists. The only major issue I know of regarding the airframe's suitability for flight is a mod to the tailfin that is required - this will be carried out on a spare tailfin which will then be fitted in place of the current one.
The only obstacle to the return to flight is, I'm assured, money of the lack thereof. And perhaps people's attitudes...
Mind you TVOC are not doing well at communicating how things are going - so it is hardly surprising they are getting the flak seen above.
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as far as I'm aware there are several spare zero time engines waiting to go and no parts problem exists
As I said I bloody well hope I am wrong.
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Ah but other Vulcan operators arent trying to fly them and gain mfr support for the engines. Indeed one Olympus operator has just had problems with that very issue.
That said, didnt they use a version of the Olympus to pump gas and run ships as well? I haven't heard of any problems with those.
If I am wrong then I will be the happiest man alive.
That said, didnt they use a version of the Olympus to pump gas and run ships as well? I haven't heard of any problems with those.
If I am wrong then I will be the happiest man alive.
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Trust me whether flying or not the bods on the ground next to them don't want bits flying out and hitting them so if there was an issue they'd be worried about it!
What operator you referring to?
What operator you referring to?
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Peter,
I am sorry, but you are wrong Sir.
As Grob Driver explains, if the bird belonged to the nation then yes, maybe the HLF should support it, but as a private venture, then absolutely NO WAY! (like you, I do not agree with HLF for the dome, Iraqi sympathisers, or any of the other disgraceful organisations that con money out of them)
I flew Vulcans in the 70's and I have the biggest 'soft spot' for the old girl, but we have to be realistic. The chances of her flying and displaying SAFELY, I fear are out of reach. In the last season of displaying 558, there were at least two occasions that I know of, where things went seriously wrong, and the crew were ready to jump out of her.
The very last thing we need, is to get her back in the air at all costs, and then watch her make a big hole approx 1 mile diameter in a field, or worse still at a show. Believe me, that will be the end of all historic/old aircraft flying & airshows in the UK.
(Why do you think the CAA have been so unwilling to help?)
My greatest concern is the never-ending stream of threats from the VOC, Dr Pleming, Mr Walton and the rest of the bandwagon. All they ever do it seems, is to say that unless they get a million here, and another million there, then they will scrap her, cut her up, sell her the American blah!
The tragedy is that million of people like me (and I suspect you) have already given generously out of our own pockets to this project, (PRIVATE PROJECT) with NO results on progress, only contiuous threats about her future.
If Walton does not want her, then he should offer her to someone who does. Maybe there are enough ex-Vulcan people about who would 'chip in' and purchase her? She ashould be left to rest, in a fitting and safe place. She looks a great deal better on the ground, in one piece, than in a field in lots and lots of pieces.
Sermon ends
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large glass of Grouse, and one for Peter and grob also!'
I am sorry, but you are wrong Sir.
As Grob Driver explains, if the bird belonged to the nation then yes, maybe the HLF should support it, but as a private venture, then absolutely NO WAY! (like you, I do not agree with HLF for the dome, Iraqi sympathisers, or any of the other disgraceful organisations that con money out of them)
I flew Vulcans in the 70's and I have the biggest 'soft spot' for the old girl, but we have to be realistic. The chances of her flying and displaying SAFELY, I fear are out of reach. In the last season of displaying 558, there were at least two occasions that I know of, where things went seriously wrong, and the crew were ready to jump out of her.
The very last thing we need, is to get her back in the air at all costs, and then watch her make a big hole approx 1 mile diameter in a field, or worse still at a show. Believe me, that will be the end of all historic/old aircraft flying & airshows in the UK.
(Why do you think the CAA have been so unwilling to help?)
My greatest concern is the never-ending stream of threats from the VOC, Dr Pleming, Mr Walton and the rest of the bandwagon. All they ever do it seems, is to say that unless they get a million here, and another million there, then they will scrap her, cut her up, sell her the American blah!
The tragedy is that million of people like me (and I suspect you) have already given generously out of our own pockets to this project, (PRIVATE PROJECT) with NO results on progress, only contiuous threats about her future.
If Walton does not want her, then he should offer her to someone who does. Maybe there are enough ex-Vulcan people about who would 'chip in' and purchase her? She ashould be left to rest, in a fitting and safe place. She looks a great deal better on the ground, in one piece, than in a field in lots and lots of pieces.
Sermon ends
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large glass of Grouse, and one for Peter and grob also!'
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Now now Monkey, I've already said the aircraft gets sold to a Trust if the bid is successful - it's part of the bid itself - so no private venture stuff please. And I've also said none of this "we'll scrap it" stuff has ever come from TVOC or anyone connected with the venture - please don't get worked up about hearsay and rumour.
I agree with you about making sure it's done safely. The CAA are, after all, onboard contrary to what you say.
I agree with you about making sure it's done safely. The CAA are, after all, onboard contrary to what you say.
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Mr Monkey… I fear all that Grouse may be affecting your judgement a little... Maybe you need a bit of water to go with it! Peter is not wrong… It’s an opinion, and as it’s his opinion, then it’s right… That doesn’t mean you have to agree with it!
If Damien is right (and I’m sure he is!) then it sounds like a good plan. I just wonder what the plan is for the aircraft if the HLF application is un successful?
Hjc… you said you spoke to Dr Pleming… Was it Dr Pleming who told you that the aircraft would / could or may be cut up on site?
No doubt the plat will thicken with time. I just wish people were a bit more open and honest about it… The longer this goes on, the more sceptical people will become. Oh, and it’s about time TVOC updated their web site too!!!! They need to tell people what’s happening. There needs to be something on there to keep the ‘supporters’ interested.
If Damien is right (and I’m sure he is!) then it sounds like a good plan. I just wonder what the plan is for the aircraft if the HLF application is un successful?
Hjc… you said you spoke to Dr Pleming… Was it Dr Pleming who told you that the aircraft would / could or may be cut up on site?
No doubt the plat will thicken with time. I just wish people were a bit more open and honest about it… The longer this goes on, the more sceptical people will become. Oh, and it’s about time TVOC updated their web site too!!!! They need to tell people what’s happening. There needs to be something on there to keep the ‘supporters’ interested.
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When I watched XM 655 taxiing at Wellesbourne in June, a seemingly well-informed Vulcan groupie told me that the 558 presentation to the lottery had been criticised and they (the Bruntingthorpe crowd) were told to go away and do it properly, which sounded encouraging. One of the “erks”, also very knowledgeable, told me the same story. Has something changed now that I missed perhaps ?
He also confirmed that 655 would never fly as the “seals”, I suppose O rings etc, were timed out a while ago. So that’s that.
Of course the burning question of whether or not these old tubs should fly any more won’t go away. I can’t quite make my own mind up, but an awful lot of good people have lost their lives flying these ancient machines, such a waste and easily avoidable.
He also confirmed that 655 would never fly as the “seals”, I suppose O rings etc, were timed out a while ago. So that’s that.
Of course the burning question of whether or not these old tubs should fly any more won’t go away. I can’t quite make my own mind up, but an awful lot of good people have lost their lives flying these ancient machines, such a waste and easily avoidable.
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In the last season of displaying 558, there were at least two occasions that I know of, where things went seriously wrong, and the crew were ready to jump out of her.
Go on Monks. Tell us what happened.....
SSD
Go on Monks. Tell us what happened.....
SSD
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Singing Monkey.
Thow duth preach a fine sermon and as you fleweth the Mightyeth Vulcan then you haveth more knowledge than meith, but I still haveth to disagree with you, sorry.
I would love as I am sure thousands would to see it fly again.
There are risks with any historical aircraft flying at airshows as well as modern aircraft and I am sure with all the checks that are performed that the Vulcan would be as safe as any of them.
We begeth to differeth.
Thanks for the Grouse.
Peter
Thow duth preach a fine sermon and as you fleweth the Mightyeth Vulcan then you haveth more knowledge than meith, but I still haveth to disagree with you, sorry.
I would love as I am sure thousands would to see it fly again.
There are risks with any historical aircraft flying at airshows as well as modern aircraft and I am sure with all the checks that are performed that the Vulcan would be as safe as any of them.
We begeth to differeth.
Thanks for the Grouse.
Peter