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Sari Club attack.
Air Paradise has been dealt a huge pre-startup blow by a vicious terrorist attack on the Sari Club on Jalan Legian in Kuta Bali.
The death toll is now at 150 and QF are scheduling extra flights to evac Aussies. The Sari Club is one of my favourite (and most other aussies as well) watering holes. What in hell is happening to our world?? If anyone had any doubts, now seems a good time to reduce a few nations to smoking holes in the sand. This is not a drill. My support goes out wholeheartedly to those who have lost loved ones in this attrocity, and also to the wonderful Balinese people who will suffer very badly through no fault of their own. Selamat jalan Bali - blessings on your journey. EWL |
???
Is this really the place to discuss such a non-aviation topic.
U2 |
Considering some people are putting a great deal of time & effort into establishing a new airline to Bali, I think it is an appropriate place. (Anyway, Woomera will have the final say!)
AN provided a considerable amount of seats to DPS & the void was there to be filled. Sadly, if these sorts of attrocities continue, the only void will be on aircraft heading up there. Indeed, what the hell is happening EWL. I hear there was a bomb set off in Helsinki as well! My condolences to all... :( |
Thank you Buster.
U2 Bali is a port frequented by many Aussies and overnighting aircrew - and a major tourist destination. It is quite possible that overnighting QF crew were there and the Sari Club is or was one of the usual haunts of any Aussie. Woomera will indeed have the final say, but I do not feel in the least wrong in posting this here. I do think also that anything that affects a new carrier my just be pertinent to our airline world. I received a heads up from a friend who is a full bird colonel in the USMC air wing 2 months ago that Al Quaeda was setting up training bases in Indo and that all were advised not to take R and R in Indo under any circumstances. Quiksilver were advised by me and Surfing Australia of the potential danger and the Quiksilver Pro at G Land was shelved. Scary times. I just hope Air Paradise and Barry Hess and his crew can weather this storm. Best all EWL |
Considering that of the 182 odd people that lost their lives in Bali last night many of them will be australians, I think it's disgraceful the first comment made on this thread related to Air Paradise's efforts. There are larger issues. :eek:
Condolences to all those who are caught up in the mess. I've been told the QF crew weren't there and have been turned around... hopefully that was correct information, and they were lucky. Lancer |
World unrest.
I just spent nearly 5 months living (and flying) in Jakarta with Denpasar being one of the destinations. It saddens me deeply that an attack has happened in this country as I have come to like and respect the Indonesion people. My condolances to the family and friends of those that were killed. Recently ferried a Dash 8 from Jakarta to Amman (Jordan) it was a standard tank model so many stops were required and the route we flew certainly opened my eyes. Jakarta-Medan took us over Aceh (War # 1) then onto Phuket with a delay to get our clearance into Myanmar (formerly Burma) because they had been shelling positions in Thailand (War # 2), from Myanmar to Kaolkata, Delhi to Karachi requiring a special clearance to fly from India to Pakistan (yep you guessed it, War # 3) From Karachi through Muscat, Rhiyad to Amman we were challenged by American forces as we flew past Iraq (War # 4 brewing there) and on arrival we delivered the aircraft back to the origional ownwers, Palestinian Airlines, who are now based in Marka, Jordan because thier origional base, Gaza, has been bombed out (Well I guess that War # 5 was starting to get my attention). There are certainly some parts of the world that are very unsettled and that could pose delays and even hazards to aviation (forum relevence there). As long as there are those among us have the superior attitude that we should just "reduce a few nations to a smoking hole in the ground" instead of perhaps looking at our own foriegn policies then this unrest will probably continue and possibly even get worse.
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Lancer - my first thoughts are and will always be for those killed and their families. On a percentage of population basis this is as bad for Australia as September 11. The Air Paradise thread is a natural progression and a logical consequence. The fact that it was mentioned does not make it less true or in any way lessen the massive hurt that this attack has caused. A fact is a fact Lance.
1AHRS - I do not feel it is a "superior attiude" at all mate. It has come to the point where the only way reasonable people can feel safe travelling the world is to cauterise the problems. Reasoned approaches have and will never succeed as us westerners are viewed as infidels and a subspecies by the radical factions of Islam and it is pointless even sitting down to talk with them. Look at Arafat - says one thing - does another. Just when oh when does the regular run of the mill Aussie Christian get a right to an opinion. Maybe it is time for us to all develop unreasonable sets of demands. I do however agree that the Indonesians are a wonderful race of people, the Balinese even more so and it is very sad that this travesty was committed on their soil. EWL |
EWL..
Feel the same way as you do.. BUT could you imagine the uproar if someone blew up Mecca.. There must be a better way.. :( |
CNN
Extra flights to ferry home tourists Sunday, October 13, 2002 Posted: 4:08 AM EDT (0808 GMT) SYDNEY, Australia -- Airline Qantas is sending extra flights to the Indonesian island of Bali to help bring back Australian holiday makers after Saturday's explosions. Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said Sunday the extra flights would be able to bring more than 1,000 people back to Australia. Three extra flights will leave over the next 24 hours, the first departing Sydney at 5 p.m. Sunday local time, followed by another at 1 a.m. and 9.am. on Monday. The Boeing 747 and two Boeing 767s will not be taking any passengers to Bali, other than extra Qantas staff to assist with the processing of those wanting to leave, a Qantas medical team, medical vounteers and dozens of media. Dixon said there was a "clamor" of people wanting to leave, and that even more flights would be considered if required. "We will be able to move out well over 1,000 people," Dixon told media. The special flights are in addition to the 13 return Qantas services that operate directly to Denpasar each week from Australia. Dixon said Qantas was continuing to work closely with the relevant Australian and Indonesian Government authorities and would put on additional aircraft for Bali services if they were required. Bali is an extremely popular tourist destinations with Australians because of its closeness and the low valued of the Indonesian rupiah compared with the Australian dollar. Calm call Dixon said Qantas would be primarily concentrating on flying its own customers out of Bali but would consider taking out other nationalities in special circumstances. Qantas customers with a return ticket to Australia will be able to travel on the special additional services at no extra cost. Other flights to Bali from Australia are continuing as normal, but the government has warned Australians to defer all travel to the island until further notice. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade advises Australians to stay in their hotels, avoid public places and call home and advise families of their wellbeing. It also advises people to stay calm while authorities assess the situation. The Australian embassy in Jakarta are flying extra staff to the Australian consulate in Denpasar to assist with the tragedy. The Australian consulate is also responsible for assisting Canadians in Bali as well. |
If only there was a better way Cypher.
I am sure we all wish it, but the better way is sliding beyond our grasp. EWL |
Muslims are not the problem here and neither is Islam. If we are to believe that Sept 11th and the recent Sari Club car bombing is all in the name of Allah we are being very gullible.
These acts of terror are carried out by homicidal maniacs with no more religious conviction than Julian Knight and Charles Manson. The hunting down and destruction of such terrorist groups is the requirement, NOT to reduce a few nations to smoking holes in the sand. |
3 Holer
Your post is totally correct and I apologise for the outburst. one wonders however how one seperates the disease from the symptom. The sari club was and will always be one of my favourite haunts in Bali and this has really brought these idiot's fanatical plans home to roost. If these Muslim zealots choose to destroy so many lives, and in the process destroy the lives of God knows how many hard working underpaid Balinese, they obviously have absolutely no common decency. The only problem with cauterising the bad element is where does one stop. The only way to be sure the threat is gone is to take the lot out, and that is getting back to Nazi theorums. We are in a no win area here. EWL |
Emotions
3 Holer- well said.
I understand the emotion now running, but if people take up the attitude of EWL, the terrorists have succeeded. It is the purpose of these people to promote hatred, racsism and religious emnity. Most Muslims (that I have contact with anyway) are disgusted by this barbarism. These acts are against the teachings of their faith. Irrationality is not the cure. If anything, it is the cause. Whilst short-term our thoughts are with those who suffered first-hand, who suffers long-term? Australians too scared to travel and battling hatred and xenophobia, Balinese (mostly non-muslims), and Muslims worldwide (who suffer the effects of the emnity created). Sad times. |
Good old Qantas to the rescue once again.............
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ferris - I fully agree with you, but what on earth do we do from here? We cannot go on for the rest of our lives being random targets.
I guess if we knew we would be world leaders ourselves. EWL Wonderworld - The rat has had many dengrators (including myself) over the past year, but it is a good thing to see that they still have enough culture in the system to react in a proper manner to a catastrophy such as this. Well done Rat! A hint of your roots still exists. EWL |
EWL, I think that is the challenge.
Accept that you ARE a random target (Washington sniper, Timothy McVeigh etc.) and try and live your life in a positive way. Or: Succumb to the hatred, bunker down and prepare for war. There are no easy answers. And yes, good on QF for taking some positive action. |
Did anyone notice on the TV interview with Dixon about QF's additional Bali flights, that QANTAS is coming to help its Customers . Whereas in the past QF would come to rescue Australians.......
Maybe its just semantics or being picky, but it seems to be inline with the latest thinking that airlines don't carry passengers anymore they carry customers...... (And a few other people watching the interview made the same comment) Anyway I guess its really all a bit trivial compared to the main issue at hand. |
AAP 21:30 (AEST)
Major air evacuation from Bali By Shane Wright and Rod McGuirk October 13, 2002 A MAJOR air evacuation of Australians injured in the Bali terror attack has started with mainland hospitals on standby for critically ill patients. One of four RAAF C-130 Hercules had landed in Bali to airlift up to 30 people to Darwin. The other three were to airlift the same number of people at a time in a bid to relieve pressure on Bali's hospital system. A P3C, which was on its way to Bali to deploy Australian Federal Police and diplomatic staff, was also to be used to bring less seriously injured people back to local hospitals. Seven Australians have been confirmed dead and more than 110 injured in the attacks on two nightclubs in Bali. The Hercules have seven-member medical teams onboard, including surgeons and nurses, who will decide which patients come back to Australia. Each plane will land and take onboard patients before immediately returning to Darwin. The first of the Hercules carrying casualties was expected to arrive in Darwin, the closest Australian capital to Bali, around midnight CST (0030 AEST). "All 30 patients have burns," a defence spokesman said. Darwin hospital administrator Len Notaras estimated 60 seriously injured victims could be accommodated in the 300-bed hospital and the neighbouring private hospital. He also expected the public hospital's mortuary would become a staging point for the bodies of Australian casualties. "We can fairly comfortably take 40, 50, perhaps 60 or so quite seriously injured patients," Dr Notaras said. Two wards had been cleared and the old cafeteria had become an assessment room. Elective surgery and outpatient lists had been cancelled tomorrow. The hospital prepared extra blood supplies and took other measures similar to those enacted in response to violence two years ago in nearby East Timor, the hospital spokeswoman said. Perth's major teaching hospitals were among those put on standby to take any casualties. "We're preparing all our major tertiary medical facilities so we have the capacity to look after any patients if the Commonwealth requests that," West Australian Health Department spokeswoman Joanne Godecke said. Emergency departments, burns units and intensive care units at hospitals including Royal Perth Hospital and Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital were on standby, Ms Godecke said. Three members of the Westpac LifeSaver Helicopter Rescue Service in Sydney, and six members of NSW Health including members of the NRMA CareFlight medical service, are also headed to Bali to assist medical authorities. Aboard the P3C will be a federal police and ASIO investigation team. The team includes forensic and investigative officers who are experts in victim identification and post-bomb blast investigation. AAP |
Make absolutely no mistake, the bombing was aimed directly at Australians.
Certain parts of the Indon military were aware that this was coming and they have not forgiven our involvement in East Timor. Megawati may be the President but she does not have the real power. Many in the diplomatic area including the Singaporeans warned about it and as EWL said many other countries citizens were told not to go there. Australians are very very naive about such things and hopefully they will wake up and now understand that these guys play for keeps and we are the same target as all the other western nations. A bunch of 7 fresh young Aussie kids from the local footy team who hadn't been in town a couple of hours, go to the pub for some well earned fun, are now missing, presumed dead, amongst the 187 plus. I was listening to some young things, being interviewed at Perth airport this morning prior to boarding their Bali flight and after being advised of the extent of the carnage. Their main concern seem to be that they had already paid for their package and were going rather than lose it, with one who had been before and knew where the Bounty Hotel was in relation to the Sari, expressing the hope that the packager had arranged some alternative accomodation.:rolleyes: Only 30 odd of the 300 traveling chose not to go. :eek: One unbelievable couple doing the "well if your numbers up routine". Well I'm here to tell you they will be the same people to scream for help from the Govt and expect our boys to go save them. Lets stop the Politically Correct bulls hit pussy footing around with "the terrorists have succeeded if we ...." and all of the rest of that naive feel good crap. Listen to Richard Butler when he says, there is only one thing that they understand and it isn't rational debate about them being naughty and how about being good chaps. Bush got it right the first time, WW3 started at (I think it was) 8:47am EDT 9/11/2001 and we all sat in our living rooms and watched it live on CNN and discussed it as if it was a good movie around the coffee machine next morning. He was also right when he said he would chase those responsible and those who harboured them, it's now time for Indonesia to come clean on this. It was not then nor is now a remote concept and if we try to slide around the Sari bombing without sending a clear and unequivocal message backed up with some real action then God help us all. Howard has to send a very clear and unequivocal message to Megawati and the military who are hiding behind her in the biggest Muslim community in the world that we will not tolerate this action and that if they don't do something concrete and visible about it we will. This subject has every thing to do with aviation. It was aviation that made Bali and all of the gazillion dollars the tourist industry has generated into Indonesia. Aviation turned Bali with Balinese support into a lucrative local playground. A local operator observed today that it "looked like he was going to have to go back to growing rice", he has another choice. So that is now all gone for the monent and DFAT should keep the country off the "safe" list until it is demonstrated by the Indon Govt that they are seriously doing something. Air Paradise should recognise the First rule in business. The first loss is always the best loss. Stop. Its no longer about whether Barry Hesse has a job or not. Over whose dead bodies.? The owner made his dollars out of Bali so he can go and sort it out with his Government. And unless I'm mistaken most of the properties in Bali are owned by the military and the Indonesian elite. So if common decency doesn't work for them, then a good hard and sustained kicking in the financial groin certainly will. Wake up Australia, the good cheap times are on hold for the forseeable future, give the dead your utmost respect and stay well away until they show them respect by producing the perpetrators, they know who they are, and dealing with them. The money is far better spent in Australia looking after Australians, rather than further enriching an already hopelessly corrupt regime. We have become soft and selfish and a bunch of Aussies on holidays have learned that lesson the hard way. Lets hope we don't just talk about it round the coffee machine again while we plan our next holiday there. |
ABC News Online
Hospitals stretched It is feared of the injured many may die because the hospitals do not have enough pain killers or blood to give them proper treatment. Police say the dead included nationals from Australia, Britain, France, Germany, New Zealand, Canada and Sweden, most of whom were in a club in the Kuta Beach area. Most of the bodies retrieved from the nightclubs have been taken to the Sanga Hospital, near the Balinese capital of Denpasar. But it is clear the hospital, like others in Bali, is ill equipped to deal with the magnitude of the human disaster. Bodies are simply piled along the corridors as officials try to start the grim task of identification. Westerners who know the health system fear many who suffered burns in the blasts may die because the hospitals do not have enough pain killers, scalpels, gloves or blood to give them proper treatment. Maria Jakes, who runs a knitwear company in Bali, has spent the day trying to help provide bandages. "We've got people that have got 90-degree burns all over their body," she said. "There's no Burns Unit in Bali. They're dying basically because there's nothing to do." Ian White, who is a volunteer working at Sanga Hospital, is trying to make a list of the missing. "It's just pandemonium out of control here, it's just bedlam and mayhem," he said. "I'm actually, since early this morning, been putting a data base together of the missing persons and well, the injured and where they are and what's happened and we're trying to compile it right now and trying to put all the information together." A volunteer at one hospital, Allison Chester, says she thinks the death toll will rise because medical staff are completely overwhelmed. "People are very, very badly burned here and we badly need equipment," she said. "We need medicine, we need pethadine, we need bandages, we need linens. "The staff are doing whatever they can here but they don't have enough help, Australian doctors and doctors from Europe here have been given permission to operate." |
Never a truer word spoken Gaunty!
Unfortunately, Howard will not pull out the big stick to Indonesia...because we aint got one! The usual rhetoric will ensue (and rightly so), but in the end, there's a bluddy lot of them compared to us!
The political situation is the same as that faced by Whitlam when E. Timor was invaded. We can waive the finger at them, but that's about it. Now, I've always thought that we needed a US military base in the top end. That way, we can say all we want, knowing full well that anyone we tick off will have to go past the Yanks first! Lets all remember a point well made earlier. These are FANATICS/LUNATICS call them what you will, but they are hiding behind their faith. Too many good people of their faith out there who don't deserve such animosity. Remember, there's a little island off the coast of the UK that has a similar problem up north! As for Barry Hess. I wish you well & anyone else up there that had settled in what I believed to be an idyllic place. You're always welcome back home. |
Here here Gaunty.
Its well time that we stop fooling ourselves into believing that because we play fair, play by the rules, level playingfield etc etc and all that other feel good crap, that others will follow suit. Bombing inocent civilians is not playing fair. Lets get serious, we have a strong and capable fleet of F111's, F18's. When we find out who did this, lets use them for what they were designed for. Its time that we also taught the Indo militry brass a lesson or two, about who has the real power in this region. US. It was proved in WW2 that one of our soldiers,saliors or airmen is worth 50 of theirs and will be proved again. These cowards who did this despise our way of life, the fact that we have freedom, that our women have equal standing in our society as men. That we can worship our godof choice what ever it is in the way we choose. This is the freedom they want to take away from us. Once again, the guys and girls from QF will swing into action and show the world what aussies can do in a crisis, just like they did on 9/11 in LAX, other disasters and going back to cyclone tracey in 74. As we speak, once again QF staff are going beyond the call duty in exceptionally trying circumstances and are doing us proud. Bombs going off, snipers in the suburbs..................what is this world comming to.................this is not the world I grew up in. God bless the unfortunates who perished in Bali. |
OzGrade3
Its not the world I grew up in either, Gaunty, I think it will take another 24hrs before it dawns on the average Aussie just what has gone down here. Geez, after the dia rapes in SYD recently I,m starting to feel like I live in some foreign country. The Australian death toll according to sky news could be as high as 130 if this does not wake the average Aussie up, what hope have we got?. Wirraway |
Wirraway
Thanks for the ABC take on the hospitals and lack of basic medical facilities. mrs gaunty who is a medical professional and I were talking about it over dinner. She is going to have to rearrange some of her op suite schedules as her "boys", the plastics, orthopods and others are going to be busy. What a lot of Aussies don't understand is that the final death toll will be much higher than it should have been as a result of the lack of even the most basic western post accident medical treatment. We have enjoyed the wonderful First Class hotels, but the danger of their Third World medical system was always lurking. It was always a fools paradise in that respect. The severe burns victims are at extreme risk and it will be a miracle for those who survive the transfer, when every minute is crucial. Simple trauma that would be routine in Oz, in Bali becomes seriously dangerous. Major trauma that would challenge Oz IC, will most likely be fatal. We can be confident though, that our superb RAAF people with competent triage will be able to save those that can be. They will, however, need all the luck they can get. QF are doing a fantastic job and there was even a report of an OZ private jet turning up with aid and being made available for medical transfer, no fanfare, just a simple "how can we help". |
'May they Rest in Peace'.
Gaunty and Ozgrade3: I agree. Now, 3 Holer I have a few questions for you. Your quote, "muslims are not the problem here and neither is islam" Are you trying to tell us that al-qaida has no islamic connections or influence? Are you trying to tell us that Indonesia is not the most populous muslim nation in the world? Are you trying to tell us that there are no al-qadia operatives in Indonesia? (or Australia for that matter) Are you trying to tell us that this doesnt co-incide with the second anniversary of the al-qadia linked attack on USS Cole off Yemen? Are you trying to tell us that the US Embassy in Jakarta wasn't evacuated very recently and a car exploded nearby with one man killed? Are you trying to tell us that Authorities in Malaysia and Singapore alleged that members of jemaah islamiyah(terrorists)are seeking to set up a islamic state in South East Asia and are presently based in Indonesia? Are you trying to tell us that there is a difference between muslims and islam and if so that their beliefs aren't founded from the koran? Are you aware that the koran instructs muslims "that if they can't convert someone to islam you may as well kill that person for they are nothing" I believe this attack has islamic origins and I am certain this will be revealed soon. Regards Hoss :mad: |
There is very little info about what happened in Bali yet. Dont you guys think its a little early to go pointing fingers at people of various faiths.
Remember, our's is one of the few governments around the world foolish enough to follow GW Bush into action in the middle east. Howard lied to us about the boat people and if required will lie to us about the perpertrators of this attack in Bali. Be carefull about what you read and who tells you the info. Dont forget, Timothy McVeigh was an Arab for a couple days following the Oak city bombing. Dont jump to conclusions. |
I consider myself pretty moderate in most things BUT...
Just after Sept 11 an Aussie news crew went to a predominantly Muslim Sydney Suburb and asked the first veiled, teenaged girl what she thought of Bin Laden... "I think he's a Hero!" she said... Shortly there after a well known representative of the Muslim community appeared to hose down the situation and assure us all that they were really our friends. People who consider me a worthless dog worthy only of a fiery fate in hell because I don't think the same way as them (And I'm not talking about '89ers here, though it's much the same mentality!!) are being welcomed in my country. Moderation is a fine thing...In Moderation!!! |
Just few extracts from this mornings papers
"Melbourne Age" 'Late last night, the unofficial death toll from the attack on two crowded nightclubs in the tourist hub of Kuta had climbed to 187, while local authorities struggled with inadequate medical facilities to care for more than 300 injured.' 'An emotional Prime Minister John Howard warned the nation to be prepared for a high Australian death toll from the world's biggest terrorist outrage since the September 11 attacks.' 'It appears likely the attack will result in the greatest single loss of Australian lives overseas during peacetime.' 'Fears of a massive Australian death toll grew after hospital authorities estimated that 75 per cent of the injured were Australian. Eight Australians had been confirmed dead by last night.' 'Other Australians were joining a mass exodus from the holiday island, with Qantas scheduling special flights to evacuate tourists and the Federal Government issuing a blanket warning against any travel to Bali.' 'Late yesterday, authorities in the Balinese capital, Denpasar, listed 187 dead with 309 injured. The dead reportedly included Australians, Indonesians, Americans, Britons, Germans, Swedes, Swiss, Italians and Canadians.' 'The biggest terrorist attack involving Australians comes after months of US criticism of Jakarta for not taking seriously the threat of international terrorist groups, particularly al Qaeda, which it says are working inside Indonesia.' ----------------------------- 'He couldn't talk and didn't want to give his surname. "Just Michael will do," he muttered, his voice breaking. Sitting a short distance away from him in his Bali hotel room were four young girls, all from Sydney but all from different families. The eldest was 15, two were 14 and the fourth, just 12 years old. Last night they still didn't know whether their parents were dead after the murderous explosions that ripped through two nightclubs on the popular Kuta Beach strip.' 'Michael and his mate, both from Perth, had been drinking at a bar three doors from the Sari when the explosion ripped through the nightclub. "We just ran on to the street and tried to do what we could but it was carnage, sheer bloody carnage," Michael said last night. "Then we saw the girls, one after the other, just wandering around in shock and we grabbed them and brought them back to our hotel to try and help them." One of the girls had told him she was on the dance floor when the club erupted into flames and had had to crawl over dead bodies to get out. "We're just trying to help these poor little girls to find their mums and dads, but it doesn't look real good at the moment," Michael said.' ---------------------------------- Sue McKerrow and her husband, Ron, were going to bed when they heard the explosion. When they opened the door to their room, their daughter Kim, 23, and her friend Linley Huguenan, 22, were standing in the doorway hysterical, their faces covered in blood, their hair burnt. They'd been in the Padi bar next door to the Sari when the bomb went off. Someone had given them a ride back to the hotel on a motor bike. Mrs McKerrow said her daughter and friend suffered burns to about 35 per cent of their bodies as well as horrific shrapnel wounds. "When I opened the door I nearly died," Mrs McKerrow, from The Basin, said by phone from the hotel. The McKerrows attempted to get the two badly injured women treatment at Bali's only public hospital in Denpasar but were turned away because it was full. They were sent to an army hospital but again had to leave because, Mrs McKerrow said, "there were no drugs, no linen, nothing, it was a nightmare". Eventually the two women were treated at the International Medical Clinic. "We brought Kim back to the hotel where an American trainee doctor has been caring for her until we can get her on a Hercules and back to an Australian hospital," she said. She described the scene in Bali as "horror, pure and utter horror". ----------------------------------- ""We just kept running into people with body parts missing. Taxis would not take people with blood on them. They wanted $50 to take you out of there." ------------------------------------ The Australian Government had been slow to take seriously the threat of terrorism in South-East Asia, according to terrorism expert and author Rohan Gunaratna. Mr Gunaratna said attacks would occur on Australia's shores unless terrorist groups in the region were destroyed. "I believe the Australian Government should have taken more action to protect Australian interests both in Australia and overseas, especially after a bomb exploded in Indonesia inside the Australian international school last year," Mr Gunaratna, based in Singapore, told ABC radio. Mr Gunaratna claimed Australians were among the targets in the Bali bomb blast because of Australia's high profile in the campaign to defeat terrorism. But he said Australia's involvement in the war on terror was necessary because "all nations must join hands to fight terrorists". Mr Gunaratna, the author of Inside al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror, said the Bali blast was likely to be the work of Jemaah Islamiah. -------------------------------------------- "The Australian" IT is 20 hours after the bomb blast that destroyed Paul Haines's holiday and the 18-year-old has wandered in to the Sanglah Denpasar hospital, the island's finest. The blisters on his face from burns sustained in the blast the night before are dripping with ooze. He holds up his hands to indicate despair, oblivious to the fact that they are swollen with blisters the size of golf balls, and inadvertently catches some of the drops falling like tears from his face. The Perth welder has spent the night, and day, being sent from one hospital to another. He's lost count of the number he's been to, but it's a fair bet it is all of Bali's nine, and he is yet to receive a bandage, let alone a painkiller. At this point, 7pm, all he wants is a drink of water, and a flight home. "You're in good nick, mate," says one of the dozens of volunteers that have been drawn from the Bali playground to the hospitals. "That's why no one's helping you. We've just got a couple of gruesome things to do first, and then we'll come back for you." ------------------------------------------------------------------- These are just a few extracts from 2 papers of this disgusting act, my condolances to all familys involved. Wirraway |
Hoss....
Where in the Koran does it say to slay unbelievers for they are nothing? :eek: Just curious thats all... |
Lets get serious, we have a strong and capable fleet of F111's, F18's. When we find out who did this, lets use them for what they were designed for |
What people are saying about the appalling level of medical care available in Bali is no understatement, it's no better in most every other part of Indonesia. I've medivaced LOTS of people from Bali and the hospitals there are truly bad.
My thoughts are with the victims. How many children will be orphaned or lose a dad or mum...not all the revellers in Bali are teens or 20 somethings. It is well and truly time we as a nation stop the PC pussyfooting and start demanding accountability in our near neighbours. It will not surprise me AT ALL when they find sections of the Indonesian Military were not only aware of this before it happened but were directly involved. The military in Indonesia is all pervasive, they run everything...including the Govt of Indonesia. When Australia finds out who did this it should result in a strike by our F111s....if that means we bomb the Indon Military HQ in Jakarta so be it!!! Give me the keys to an F111 and I'll do it myself:mad: Chuck. |
Ozgrade3
Can I suggest your air campaign against Indonesia be launched from Christmas Island? With a higher sortie rate we will run out of bombs before spare parts- on about day 3! Fail to see the merit in a big stick response on a crumbling and relatively temperate muslim nation. I don't think we fought Indonesia in WW2. We fought the Jap's there. Like today, the issue of who was and wasn't on our side amongst the locals not black and white. Howard's leadership appears strong and sensible.Would only suggest a much more serious defence budget. Can't understand the Yanks, half-baked effort in Afganistan. Unfinished job on Al Queda but lets go into Iraq. Now, just like in WW2, our troops, and especially our SAS, belong home and not in the Middle East. Except of course, the SAS in Afganistan, where there is still Al Queda to hunt down. Awful day for Australia. Sympathies to all. |
Methinks starting a war with Indonesia is not such a bright move......we dont realistically have any substantial defence capabilities to stop them.
With Indonesias population of 220 million odd, even if they swam here, and the sharks got half of them (the sharks being are best defence force), then they lost another 50% in the outback we would still be overrun. |
Some countries live with this horror every day of their lives. They're waiting at a bus stop and get blown up or sitting in a cafe enjoying the afternoon and someone sprays the whole crowd with bullets. Countries have had foreign armies invade and kill their civilians and destroy their homes -look at Vietnam and the countries of World War 2. Australia has been lucky and the generations since WW2, despite Korea, Vietnam Afghanistan have no idea what life is like when a country is at war.Gung ho rhetoric
from people who would contemplate taking this country into a localised war with a country who would overrun us in about a week if they decided to mobilise is just a build up of testosterone and misguided macho postering. Leave this to the politicians who, hopefully, will make the right decisions. My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones. Welcome to the real world, Australia. Coming, ready or not. |
Next time you're in a magazine rack grab the oz printing of the Economist mag. Had a good article on attacking Iraq for not upholding UN resolutions over the past 10 years and what it will or won't achieve. It only angers the half the world that has watched Israel repeatedly defy UN resolutions passed down upon it over the past 30 years as the US has continually spent billions on military aid for Israel. To some out there it doesn't appear like the US is just trying to uphold world order, it goes on about the evils of dictatorships and the need for democracy in Iraq while propping up the one next door in Saudi. I'm not taking sides here but sometimes what's good for the US may not be good for Australia and I know where I'd rather live. Sorry Womera if I've drifted off topic.
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Girt by sea
This a wake up call to all Australians, and if there is any comfort than can be drawn from it (and there not much of that at all), is that this devastating event didn't occur on our own home soil.
However it might not be long before some loony group gets the idea to do something similar on our native soil. We have been blessed with one of the most peaceful (but new) nations on earth; shychaser says it all, welcome to the REAL world! Other nations live with potential horror every day. For those you who wish to condemn Moslems simply for that, then let me point out to you the red neck racist bigotry of some of extremist Christian groups think the same way, and given the opportunity, would do the same thing, to other groups. Halfwit non-educated dipsticks are their common features. They're all the blooody same! If you want to be so simplistic about it, then lets call is the rot of religion, that caused this, not just one faith. So in my pathetic opinion what is it that causes these problems? Corruption and Education, the former being too much, and the latter being insufficient. Dr. Mahatir, the PM of Malaysia recently summed it up by saying that it was the “greedy” nations that have caused many of these problems. Immediately you would think that he is referring to countries like the US and UK. Maybe he was, but think about this; the so called “greedy” nations are those that are run by despotic rulers, who are more interested in maintaining the Status quo of their incumbent power dispensing favour and riches upon those that support their regimes. They have in the process ignored their poorest masses, which is the breeding ground for discontent, and what better place to breed religious intolerance. Which countries have had these traits the most? Indonesia and the Philippines! Where are most of these problems, in the SE Asia region? Ditto! Who has supported these regimes for so long? US, UK, and Australia, directly or indirectly, usually in the interests of trade. Ultimately we have acquiesced to the past injustices on these people who have been deprived of the right to live in dignity and now the chickens are coming home to roost. It’s the same in the US. Our policies, and that of the US must change in order to prevent this from occurring again. By going in and blowing up this group and that group is simply reactionary, and I accept that it has a lot to do with grief and anger in the hopelessness of the current situation, by all means vent, but also consider the long term consequences of what you are saying. Extreme Islam knows one thing. Educate the people. Educate them in only one way, without question, and it works. You take a mass of people with no hope, no future, and you offer them something. Of course they will take it, and they will embrace it. Because they know no other way. The West has yet to learn this lesson. This is the weapon of choice by the extremists, and it should be the weapon of choice of the Western World. It has taken the extremists a generation or two to build up the fervour for this, and it will take the same for other nations to counter such fervour. This and poverty are the reasons we have such problems growing in the world. The extremists want us to react with force. It will only justify their cause further. It’s time for the West to acknowledge the differences and change strategy and policy in dealing with these countries. Just a few thoughts on this. My condolences to my fellow Australians. May they find peace. |
An English Terrorism 'expert' this morning on CNBC stated 2 things.
1. No evidence AT THIS STAGE suggests a link between Bali and And Bin Ladens's outfit. 2. Some experts are looking at a link between the Australian governments intervention in East Timor as Interfet and the events at Kuta. The Oz government is implicated in causing misery to a large disenfranchised group of people. Maybe this is payback. |
Terrorism has been around for hundreds of years, Guy Fawkes was around a long time ago. How many people realise that when they look at fireworks on 5 November they are commemorating "The Gunpowder Plot" and someone who tried to blow up the houses of parliament and very nearly succeeded? (He was a catholic by the way)
Sadly it is not something you can stamp out, there will always be people who can justify this sort of things to themselves and are brainwashed out of any rational human feelings. How can you reason with a suicide bomber? We all have to learn to live with it and the awful thing is that my first reaction to the news was the sort of numbness that I used to feel growing up in the UK in the seventies and eighties and having to live with the news reports about the atrocities of the IRA, such as bombing babies out of their prams. After a while you just don't feel anything but a sort of hollow sorrow. Australia has been very lucky for a very long time, now it seems the luck has run out. Condolences to all the families involved whose loved ones have become victim to the policies of the biggest hypocrite of them all, name no names but he's not an Aussie. |
Very true CFI. You could also link it to our own warped view of historical events like Ned Kelly & the racially motivated Eureka stockade!
People who are "respected" by Australians, but were basically criminals. Without going too far off the topic, it annoys me to see Premiers glorifying such past events & scoring points on them. At the end of the day, there are probably more similarities than differences between us! :( |
Mounting war on Indonesia is a terrible idea!
THEY are not responsible! Seriously people, THINK!!! The F/A-18 and our **** weak F-111's will only amuse the Indonesians! The Indonesian air force by all means is not a small one.... |
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