Network Aviation PIA
 

https://michaelwest.com.au/a-joycefu...iners-carrier/
this could be interesting

Last Sunday, at a meeting in Perth, pilots belonging to the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP), which covers about 80% of the around 240 pilots at Network Aviation, agreed to proceed with an application for Protected Industrial Action (PIA).That’s the same route that the division’s flight attendants plan to go down after a successful PIA vote was tallied last week, “much to the concern of management”, as one insider said. Both pilots and flight attendants are the worst paid in the Qantas Group, according to documents seen by MWM. They also miss out on rostering flexibility, optional time off and their staff perks – including basics such as meals – are down a rung from staff on the East coast.

MWM has learned that Network’s cabin crew, totalling about 300, could be on strike within a week.

Perth based Network Aviation started life as a mining charter specialist, catering to the countless thousands of fly-in-fly-out (FIFO) workers who operate Australia’s economic engine room, the iron ore mines of the Pilbara and their copper, zinc, nickel and lithium cousins. This remains its main business, but it is fast expanding into regular passenger services. It has taken over Qantas routes from Perth to Darwin, and insiders say plans to add flights from Perth to Adelaide and Hobart are well advanced.

A strike action has the capacity to severely upend Australia’s mining sector, as well as souring Alan Joyce’s farewell tour. Qantas’ resources are stretched, as one insider says, “to breaking point;” On any given day, a sick pilot or cabin crew member can throw the entire group into turmoil. Even staff now call it “Jetstar with a red tail,” – due to its ultra low-cost model.

And maybe (hopefully!) this is where the move towards better terms and conditions for the entire industry - and the challenge to some arbitrary ‘wages policy’ - all begins

Sure, but everyone still keeps voting the rubbish agreements up. 🤷‍♂️

Networks union uptake has apparently sky rocketed in recent weeks/months. This raises the question of what the hell were these pilots thinking before? Fat dumb and happy getting paid half of what the mainline guys get and suddenly now the light bulb moment occurs?

Happy to sign off on ridiculous conditions in the past all for promised expansion which they got. Bravo. The company milks the mining contracts and now you’re stealing mainline RPT. Amazing. Congratulations. All at half of what you should be getting paid. Oh and when someone goes sick and it’s about to cost QF tens of thousands of dollars for a cancelled or delayed charter flight and their FOs agree to come in and save the day for $360/day purely because they’re hour building for emirates? And now suddenly they’re annoyed?!?!

You got your jets. You have a dozen more a319s coming. And yet some of you still aren’t union members?!?!

And the small percentage of you who still didn’t vote in favour of PIA?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5d9778702.jpeg

Wait till soseg realises it's not the pilots taking the work and there is a ceo that runs qantas....divide and conquer tactics seems to be working on the simple minded.

Captains saving the day for $500 a day too! Flying a A320!
Break it down less 47 percent for tax bringing it to a total $265, work a 10 hour day (Fixed day off payment) that is $26.50 an hour take home!
Might as well get a job at the local cafe most likely paying cash with zero responsibility.

Wrong. Mainline never 'owned' any RPT routes that Network now operate remember.

For someone who was still studying CPL exams in 2008 (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-gener...ml) its even richer to imply an entitlement to such, or indeed labelling NAA crews as bin chickens while simply inheriting your own SH T&Cs from your forebearers rather than your own championing.

Goodluck to NAA guys/girls anyway :ok:

Only one dense one present here. Good one boomer. 🤦‍♂️

I think you'll find most of the gals and guys there now weren"t there for 2016 after significant growth. Maybe that has something to do with them making a stand to improve conditions now? Good luck to them.

No one ‘owns’ any routes. But it’s undeniable Network (along with other subsidiaries) has had a negative effect on mainline careers. The CP was publicly saying the latest batch of 320s rocking up were going to accelerate already fast promotion times. Hard words for mainline pilots who’ve been waiting two decades to get a sniff at the most junior commands.

Wasn’t NJS under the ‘Airlink’ brand operating most of the intra-state WA routes before Mainline became Mainline…

Can’t believe it’s taken this long for Network to get PIA going, the agreement expired years ago! Good luck to em!

I remember hearing exaclty the same thing in the early JQ days and probably true then.
With the exeption of a few high time 320s arriving to Network, none of the other subsidiaries really operate routes/frequency that justify a 737. From a 50 seat dash 8 to 110 seat B717 it a bit of a step up to justify anything else, infact most of the subsidiary flying/frequency wouldn't exist with 737s alone.

The A220 might be a different story, but that ship has all but sailed just as the JQ one did years ago.

Genius.

I think the post went over your head. I’m in full support of them fighting aggressively and getting some wins.

The ones I am mocking are the ones who until very recently were not part of a union. So my question stands, what were they doing twiddling their thumbs until recently?

And dont try to excuse anyone offering to come into work on a day off to save the day for $360/day. Those pilots are a big problem and my friends who work at NAA are sick of them.

Oh look, a new thread about pay and conditions...... oh wait, everyone is fighting each other again already. That didn't take long.

No, nobody “owns” a route but NAA was set up to service the resource sector primarily with charter ops for mining clients.

Perth Darwin is now a Netlink airbus.
Perth Broome same story.
Rumours of Adelaide and Hobart potentially going.

So tell me where does this stop? The company argues right aircraft right route. The bus and maggot are pretty damn similar. Then they argue that J class doesn’t sell anyway on these routes, when last year they increased Perth Hobart services as they wanted more J class on that route due to premium demand.
The Darwin and Broomes aren’t full. So you fill 140 economy seats out of 162 on the 737 or 140 economy on the a320 which I think has 180 total. What’s the difference? It’s the wages.

Mainline has the airbus 320 family on their EBA now. They could give a few of them to mainline right now instead of Network and keep them all economy to satisfy that lie about no demand for J class.

So why don’t they?

They claim the planes aren’t utilised much so they go to Network then literally, and I’m not making this up, five minutes later claim Network planes aren’t utilised enough between charters so that’s why they’ve gotten the ex-mainline RPTs.

Hundreds on hold with mainline. It’s the job almost everyone wants. It would sure help fix the lack of progression at mainline all thanks to management slowly carving everything up to poorly paid subsidiaries. Hell, it might even begin attracting people to SH if they see a stronger future there, instead people are turning it down happy to wait for an SO slot as there’s no glamour in SH.

So tell me where this is meant to end? Maybe when Netlink are running a320s between Melbourne and Sydney?
Those coming in for the 7 hours of log book time for a juicy Darwin return for $360 to save the day sure aren’t helping anyone.

Stop helping the company. Do the minimum and let them struggle. Then maybe they’ll really have no choice but to consider raising conditions when nobody answers their phone.

And no, not an entitlement just because 15 years ago I was still studying. I’ve had the older generation tell me over the years what it took to get the wins we all enjoy now especially on the LH EBA. I have thirty years left in this game as do my friends and colleagues. So excuse me for getting a little annoyed when all I’ve seen in my short time in the group is a continuous erosion of everything and expansion only in the subsidiaries.

Really makes you want to bang your head against a wall when you hear that until recently a large portion of Network pilots weren’t part of a union.

It’s funny with all of this …to reflect …because I’m old enough to do so. Before a certain year… the AFAP was strong enough to ensure that if a airline ( or a some other sort of smaller operator) was bought by the lager airline, the pilots from the smaller airline, generally joined with similar conditions. ( for example when Ansett bought Skywest . ) Then after that year occurred, the race to the bottom started…and it still has not stopped.

I’m so glad I’m out of it.

Welcome to PPRuNe. I don't know why it's like this either. So much for a united front.

The same friends who voted in the current EBA which includes the day-off payment bit in it?

Did your friends also tell you that whatever the 'Day-Off' payment is you so valiantly quote, is not a Day Off rate but technically a roster adjustment rate - My friends tell me they get the $'s (not enough, I know)...but they also get to keep their Day Off in Lieu.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good mid-career rant...:E

Good luck to those involved.

Belittling pilots who are in the process of standing up for their rights and asserting their value is stupid and destructive.

Network taking PIA is fantastic news for the whole industry. When the Qantas Group and other RPT operators realise they can no longer treat pilots like crap and get away with it, the benefits will flow to all.

Network guys are in the very fortunate position of not having a looming threat of their flying being sent to a cheaper subsidiary. You have no reason not to push hard and get an outcome that properly values your contribution to the Group. Good luck and I hope for the best.

Good luck and well done on getting the ball rolling.
Imagine for a second that you are an executive at a large business…..your whole purpose is to minimise expenses and maximise profits. That’s what you get paid to do and that’s what you get judged on. If your large business is an Airline you need to minimise the expense of fuel ( try some smart hedging and comms to pilots about how much they order, create an app that shows pilots where they sit compared to their peers etc),you also need to minimise the expense of labour, ( try divide and conquer, a ‘wages policy’ , dragging out negotiations etc). Just do your best to minimise the cost, but at the end of the day if your hedging was off, or the Saudi’s restrict supply, that doesn’t mean you stop buying fuel, just that it was a tough day at the office. Same same with labour. The execs know exactly how much other industries( healthcare, education, IT etc) are increasing salaries by, they know it’s coming for them too and that it is just a cost of doing business. Just a tough day at the office for them.
Don’t feel too bad for them though, crack into it :)

Network flying RPT Perth to Darwin, Broome and soon Hobart and Adelaide is just the beginning.

Don’t for a second think that all of those shiny new A321 NEOs are going to mainline, dangle that carrot in front of the Network crews and they’ll be falling all over themselves to sign any deal.

Between the E190s at Alliance, A220s in QantasLink and A320s at Network, Qantas domestic is slowly being outsourced.

Slice and dice the master plan is coming together perfectly!

No. All newish starters from recent years 👍

I can assure you network crews won't be falling over for the 321s.. Crews call in sick for an overnight in the same state....don't kid yourself the planes and work aren't wanted by any of the pilots. The only people falling over for network to have these carrots dangled is management....crew just want more money and time off.

Keep dreaming mate. All the A321’s and a dare say a fair chunk of the A220’s will be going to mainline. Don’t believe it? When the company can’t get pilots to fly them at the subsidiaries, do you think they’re just going to accept their shiny new metal just sitting around parked up? It’s already close to happening, give it a bit longer and it’ll only get worse.

Good luck to the NWA crews with your PIA. It’s the beginning of the end for managements erosion of Pilot terms and conditions finally.

I see, the same friends that joined the airline, signing up to the terms and conditions of the current EBA….you get my point?

I didn't know this, but if Captains are coming in at a lousy $500/day, that's really ****ting in their own backyards, and nothing is going to save that kind of employee. Absolute morons!

I hope you're right, at least the existing 29 A220s and 20 321s have already been 'allocated' to the intended AOCs.

Unfortunately I can't see the crewing issues even being a contributing factor to where any more orders go to.
I'd say DECs, a heap of cadets, and dare I say it - mainline pilots parachuted in on secondment (cough JQ and EFA?) will keep the subsidiaries going until the next global calamity.
I've read somewhere in the public domain about orders for the 220 being able to be pushed back if required.

But to the point of the thread goodluck to NAA. Remember plenty of these guys joined a sleepy little charter mob to happily ply the Pilbara on weekday returns and thier old EBA probably reflects thier needs of those days gone.
A good number of them didn't want any RPT flying anymore than they wanted to join the white hat brigade in the first place.
Remember that for anyone inclined to call someone a 'bin chicken'.

That's a type of wishful thinking too, just from a different perspective.
People create in their mind the narrative that best suites their situation, but the reality is that only time will tell.

Best of luck to the Network pilots, I really hope you succeed and you show to the rest of the Qantas group how to put up a fight.

And Virgin. With negotiations about to get underway, and no doubt a sh1t sandwich being offered initially by Bain, resolute PIA will be a requirement for any future restoration of previous salary and conditions.

You cannot cave in, you need to educate the entire pilot body on how critical it is, for the current and future ranks, to get that deal done right.

I have my doubts that your group will fight for the future, considering behaviour I’ve seen in other agreements recently, but this would be the most important agreement for the VA Group since the place started. Huge ramifications for the future of that pilot group if a turkey is voted in. Do not cave in for a quick dollar like a few others have done.

Your negotiations should be starting at the old base salary reinstated. If the company doesn’t even want to adhere to that, well then negotiations simply will not continue. Push bloody hard, and don’t forget, the old base salary is just the bread crumbs, much more to be pushed after that bare minimum. I’ll be supporting from the sidelines.

Interested to know what the PIA actually involves. From what i have read so far it just appears to be a vote for taking PIA. Best of luck indeed but I can't see whether its a knife fight or a jelly wrestle.

Wish I shared your optimism. Yeah, they’re struggling to crew the a220s and I am sure you’ve heard the same rumours on the line that I have. But getting that fleet on the QF AOC would be the biggest win in our careers.

I’ll believe it when it comes to fruition.

An upgrade from their previous jobs. However, as far as I know, these guys don’t answer their phones for that pitiful call out. They’re not hours chasing for pennies. And were all AFAP members the day they joined.

My jab is at the expense of the scabs who are happy to come in for that ridiculous call out fee and those that only recently joined a union.

Id love to know how many pilots there as a percentage are union members and which morons didn’t vote in favour of PIA. It was 3% wasn’t it? Management stooges? Aren’t the votes anonymous?

so they join Network on a sub-par and seriously eroded EBA in order to upgrade from their previous jobs…lol don’t you think it’s a bitch rich to complain and bitch about your own colleagues who are trying to earn an extra buck (whilst not yet in PIA) and under a clause in an EBA that was voted in by the network pilots, and in an EBA that was accepted by all who decide to join? I’d understand the resentment if working on a day off was collectively decided against as part of PIA, but it’s not.

You can whinge and carry on about Pilots joining and accepting the Network EA all you want but if they want to live in Perth what other options do they have?

Many don’t meet the puppy patting requirements of Coward street and the rest of the companies based in Perth are less secure jobs. Watch the Qantas 737 Pilots scrabble across to Network when they start downsizing the Perth Maggot base. Plenty of Jetstar and NJS Pilots both were on better conditions and both scrabbled across when faced with unemployment or East Coast relocation.

The best thing we can all do is throw our full support behind the NA Pilots.

Not complaining here about people accepting NWK conditions just to live in Perth. I just find it ridiculous one NWK pilot bitching about another when in they too choose (for whatever the personal reasons are) to come into work and fly day in day out for a ****ty salary, day off or not. What a toxic place to be.

I've been told its best for all Australian pilots to focus on increasing mainline salaries, even if you arent a mainline pilot, as it will eventually pull up everyones salary.

hang on, aren’t you the biggest user of ‘bin chicken’ on this website?

you’re seriously deluded that’s for sure. No 737 pilots will be scrambling to network. QF won’t close a pilot base, OR force people to leave. It costs them too much. More likely they will let the base shrink in size as people leave the fleet.

seriously, you have no idea about anything.

And then be sure to call everyone in every other subsidiary a bin chicken, even though you voted a B scale into effect to throw new hires under the bus.