Virgin 3.1
 

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission has reveal for the first time the full scale of the airline’s strife before it was rescued - a $3.1bn loss in the year ending June 30, 2020, and it is carrying an ongoing debt of $1.2 bn.

Under the leadership of Borghetti and then ‘Scuz’, the airline was dead in the water and COVID banged the final nail in its coffin. So as much as people hate Bain and Mrs Jayne, without the two of them there would be no Virgin Australia at all, and in turn there would literally be no pilots, cabin crew and other Human Resources that make an airline possible.

My fear is that with current rumours being that International flying won’t resume until 2022, and that is very possible considering this pandemic is now in its 16th month, what is the Government going to do to ensure all of our domestic airlines stay alive??

They're not worried about that - kick that can down the road, just like the budget - someone elses problem in the future. The current plan is keep city lockdowns going when they get 1 or 2 cases of covid

Virgin Australia chief executive Jayne Hrdlicka says she’s prepared to wear the financial pain of ultra low airfares of $39 between key destinations like Sydney and Melbourne for an extended period to ensure passenger volumes rebuild.

“The pain of it for the first two or three, to get the next twenty-five, you know it works,” she said at a hotels conference in Adelaide on Thursday.

“We need to get the volume back in the industry,” she said.
https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0...216bc48e07e1c9Virgin CEO Jayne Hrdlicka with the backdrop of Adelaide Oval. Ben Searcy

“Whatever the price it’s going to take to get people back in the air that’s what we’re going to support for a while,” she told the AHICE conference.

But there would be a point where those extremely low fares ended, and fares costing $79, $99 or $115 became more prevalent.

Each to their own I suppose; I am just happy I am living in a country where public health is taken seriously and not somewhere like India. The bottom line is both NZ and Australia are both significantly better off than countries that didn't implement appropriate measures and had their economies destroyed. I've been out for dinner with the missus this evening, I can do that because of those measures, Try saying that in the USA, UK, mainland Europe, etc....

HR essential to running an airline.... bwahhhhaaaaa!

I'm sure she is happy selling $39 airfares when the majority of her pilots are on 50% pay, but expected to be available 100%.

Doesn't mention that in the article.

I’ve been out for dinner the entire time in the USA.

I thought the pilots remain on their previous EBA T&C’s until such time they certify a new agreement?

Nope. Currently stood down, stood up, stood down again. Pilots gave her and exec team benefit of the doubt and helped with an MOU to allow flexibility during ramp up. The company keeps extending the MOU, which allows phases of pay. Most are on 50%.

And 500 000+ of your countrymen are taking a dirt-nap as a result...

I’d kill for that opportunity- Just to have a chance at reemployment. Appreciate what you have, there are many who have nothing. I got chopped and currently have no prospects for years despite 12 at Virgin. Working Min wage and going backwards.

SERVO, I suppose there will come a time when the schedule will stabilize to a new norm. Once that occurs, as unpalatable as it may be, those on the bottom of the seniority list may have to face redundancy. If that doesn’t happen, then the practice of rolling stand ups/stand downs will only serve to severely disrupt the lives of all VA pilots.

Maybe that’s what management wants?

I’m sorry to hear it On Guard. The pilots who lost their jobs at Virgin and Tiger deserved better. I know there’s a lot of hard luck stories in aviation at the moment and I really feel for all the pilots out of work.

Speaking of former VA management. Former VA board member, former EY CEO and BFF of John Borghetti; James Hogan busted for violating mandatory quarantine in the UK.

https://simpleflying.com/etihad-ceo-uk-quarantine/

What happened to all the A330 and B777 crew? Did they get let go when the fleet did or are they being dragged along?

Unfortunately they are all gawn AFIAK...

The A332s were all returned to lessors and the crews made redundant. Likewise for the 777 crew though I heard that it is possible for them to return to VA in the future if they are happy to join short-haul crew.

Of the 5 77Ws, one was leased (VH-VOZ) and this plane has been returned to lessor. The other 4 were owned and remain parked. I'm unsure who actually owns these planes now as they were encumbered so it is possible they are now owned by the banks that lent money to pre-administration VA and who took the 777s as security. Either way, the market for pre-owned 77Ws is dire so they probably won't be flying for anyone anytime soon.

I believe someone made a post recently suggesting a number of these former 330/777 crew have been forced to head North looking for GA work in Darwin and out bush given there is not much hiring likely to be going on in this part of the world for the foreseeable future…
So if it is true or not I have no idea but do hope they find their way back to a job again soon.

There also appears to be one heck of a list of boys and girls trying to get back in the game from VANZ, Tiger and others unfortunately who all were shafted as well. I personally know a handful who haven’t touched a plane in a damn long time now, not for lack of trying their butts off.

The wide body crews were fired out of seniority even though the shut down and administration affected the entire operation. It was a poisoned chalice. Filled with the promise (negotiated) of conditional return which is currently looking like being reneged by incumbent rulers.
18-20 year veterans of the company, unceremoniously shown the door. Not to diminish any other pilots situation, but these events have brought out some of the best in colleagues. It has also, unfortunately, reminded us of some of darkness residing in a small number of others…..
I certainly hope that cool heads prevail and the only whining we hear again, is that of turbines.

I know a GA operation in the Far North area that’s received 200 resumes in the last year. The trend is the same. VA/VANZ/TT/Expat.

The challenge many are facing from who I’ve spoken to is age, on each side of the seat, they acknowledge they might be waiting 5-7 years for something of substance. However they are now late 50s or cracked 60. The chances of getting hired are slim. The wife is looking at retirement not moving around again.

Many good people out on the street. Recovery might be quicker than 5-7 years I’d think but still not an enviable position to be in. One would think 787s will be on the agenda again or ordered at outstanding rates whilst the market is depressed and prior to offloading of the business.

Virgin have hung on to their Haneda slot with an extension to Oct 31st . They’ll have to either let it go or make some sort of commitment to utilise it if Japan becomes one of the travel bubbles. Interesting that the ACCC knocked back the QF / JAL alliance application. I do not know if it is permissible to have an alliance partner (ANA) operate your slot ?

Hmmm... 787s...? This is the carrot that was dangled, to the effect of, "don't take it too hard, ladies and gents. We'll get brand spanking 787s in a few years and you can all have your old jobs back".

Yeah, right. Bain is as Bain does. I take it all with less than a grain of salt - and any of my former colleagues who think it'll play out as originally promised is delusional. And if it did, you can be sure it would be on T&Cs that would be akin to getting the royal pineapple treatment at every sign-on. I'm not holding my breath on 'ifs' or 'maybes' but playing the card I've been dealt. I've made my peace with the idea that my airline career is over. Whilst it's not how I planned or wanted things to go, if nothing else, at least it's pushed me to finally pursue a long-held goal of going Stateside, completing my FAA ATP and getting into a corporate jet job opportunity. As such, I've been luckier than some and I am already seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I have many friends and family in the US, so the wife and I have been quite happy to "escape" Dictator Dan's Demokratic People's Republic of Viktoria for the Land of the Free. That said, the most heart-breaking aspect for me - aside from seeing VA reduced to a shell of its former self - has been witnessing a wealth of industry experience lost, never to be shared again with the next group of up-and-comers. Yeah, we lost a lot of good soldiers this last year...

P.S. As a side-note, regarding an aforementioned 500,000 people in the US taking a "dirt nap", I think some perspective is in order. There's 330 million people over here. Covid is real. People have died. That's a tragedy. But for cryin' out loud, we're pilots! We, of all people, should understand the meaning of the words, 'risk management'. Simply being alive at all means accepting a certain amount of risk - and there's 1,001 things that can kill you every day, just by getting out of bed. Covid is only one more. So sure, you can "stay safe" and never go outside again until no-one dies anymore, or you can stop living in fear and get on with life. You know what... For a virus with a frickin' 99% recovery rate, I'll take my chances. Most Americans around me right now would agree - and I'm glad for it because frankly I was getting sick of being surrounded by 'Chicken Little' Aussies who were jumping at their own shadows. The genie's out of the bottle and we live in a Covid world. Meanwhile, it's time we stopped letting this virus dominate every aspect of our daily lives and conversations.

With the government announcing delays til mid 2022 for the borders to open up, and from the sounds of it that is a big ol' maybe as well, it is very difficult to believe VA or any Australian airline is currently getting too excited at the idea of ordering or leasing any new long haul jets with so many unknowns still in place.
More so, I suspect the days of heavily discounted shiny new jets is vanishing very quickly as the rest of the world opens up and people hit the skies again. Just look at the US, hundreds of jets parked and stored and within a matter of a month or so ALL of them are being brought out again as quickly as they can do it and virtually every airline is hiring again. I'm sure Europe and beyond won't be far behind if the trend follows suit.

Has the U.S domestic market taken off again? good on them if it has, the world is putting us to shame.
They must lough loudly that we close a city over one case, gov said mid 2022 maybe for international. It would be nice if they told us what is changing in mid 2022 that is different now so we know where the goal line is.

Mate of mine in the US is saying that domestic US traffic is back near 2019 levels. Most of the major carriers are actively recruiting. United had in the order of a couple of hundred upgrades last month - keeping in mind that they had a significant number of Pilots who retired early during COVID.

The governments hint last night that the international borders won’t be opening until mid 2022 at best is a disgrace. As is the fact that there will be a delay between the borders opening and the population being fully immunised. We ought to be ashamed of the way the federal government has handled the vaccine rollout and the federal border closure - but alas these politicians with their populous nonsense are never held to any account.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6fa54509e.jpeg

Yes, they are laughing. I'd long suspected, but never realised until I escaped (no joke, that's what it felt like) just what a leftard, socialist country Australia has become in recent years. Every time Dan the Man got in front of the cameras and told Melbourne that we were going into our umpteenth lockdown, I was astonished at the disproportionate number of people who not only thought that what he was doing was necessary, they were actually praising him for it! "Great job for keeping us safe, Dan! My career's gone down the toilet, I can't visit my kids and my mental health is becoming more questionable by the day - but hey, keep doing a great job!" :ugh:

America's messed up and has no shortage of its own problems, but at least there are enough people here (not all of them 'evil orange man' supporters either) that, when sleepy Joe and Kamala say they want to lock the whole country down, the response is, "get stuffed". I used to think Americans were crazy with their gun culture and other peculiarities, but I am becoming more and more sympathetic - even agreeable - with their ways. To them, nothing is worth sacrificing individual liberties and freedoms for - not even a virus with a 99% recovery rate. And if Australia's idea of keeping everyone safe in the future is to become a hermit nation and never let anyone go anywhere or do anything, personally I'd rather live dangerously. What's that line from the classic Midnight Oil hit...? "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Apologies for thread drift. By the way, I'm not interested in airline jobs in the US (been there done that), but whether it's major airlines, regionals or corporate, it seems like things are starting to get very busy here again - at least that's been my perspective from what I've seen so far.

As a pilot you should be very worried about Covid 19 Infection. Early studies have found evidence that as high as 70% of infected individuals have recovered from the virus, but have been left with lasting damage to heart and lung tissue. How this will affect medicals in the future who knows. Asides from that, recovery rate is 98% recovered directly from Covid infection, this does not include lingering side effects from damage caused, just means you did not die directly from the virus. Some statistics to think of, Influenza killed 22,000 in the 2019-2020 US season, a big difference to the 500,000 deaths from Covid in one year. What this has to do with Virgin, I don't know, as it was stuffed well before Covid came along.

I'm always bemused to read pilots proclaiming that a contagious virus with only a 1% chance of killing you (that's a low estimate by the way) is odds worth living with. Meanwhile they pine for the days of old when quads ruled the airways, before unreliable twins with IFSD rates at least 200 times smaller than the covid mortality rate replaced them.

Pilots + using the term "Leftards" seems to be a match made in heaven.

Is it this type of person who is drawn to the industry, or do they morph into a Sky News lover due to the job?

not sure when covid alarmists and fear merchants are going to give up beating this drum....it's getting tiresome. There simply isn't the data to back these claims up - and hence no serious studies have been or are being conducted as a result, because it's no different to lasting effects very small percentages get
from influenza. How will it affect medicals? No different to any other respiratory illness you may or may not contract. But sure, keep trying to perpetuate the Covid boogeyman of uncertainty.

Covid has ravaged people with compromised immune systems and obesity. No surprise, there was a hell of a lot of those in the US that make up those death statistics. Live healthy, don't be a fat pig, take the vaccine if you are in a risk category and move on with your life. The rest of the world is not going to sit around like this for the next 10 years like you covid alarmists want to.

I have not yet been able to get a vaccine even though I want to. Are you suggesting that the government should nevertheless open the borders and allow covid to freely circulate in a country where it is being effectively confined to quarantine hotels?

If you ignore the actual studies being completed, otherwise you would know even why its worse. Covid causes coagulation and clotting in capillaries, this in turn causes inflammation of the heart, which has been found present in up to 60% of patients months after recovery. Not sure what respiratory diseases you are comparing it to as there are many varied types that have complications worse or milder, but not the infection rate we see with Covid. Knowing nurses that have caught Covid in Australia, have lasting lung problems 6 months after the infection due to damage caused, and cant carry out normal daily activities as a result. If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore the actual science go ahead.

if it was of any concern we would have millions and millions of people all around the world totally debilitated by their covid recovery. We don't. That's why there is no serious concerns or urgency to study it. Very small proportions of people will have lasting ongoing issues, just like serious influenza cases. Sorry, nothing unique about Covid.

Low incidence of cases means not a lot of data here(AU), however there are a growing number of studies worldwide which indicate the long term side effects of COVID are greater than first believed.
The ADAPT study, carried out by researchers at St Vincent’s Hospital and the Kirby Institute, revealed around one-third of participants were still experiencing health problems 240 days (around eight months) later. It also found one in five still felt unwell after eight months.

Perhaps COVID is morphing into a super killer and in 5 years time we all be dead? At least CASA will happy that they no longer have to regulate such an evil industry.

Didn’t they pump out a study finding most long COVID sufferers are negative for antibodies and never had a positive test?
The symptoms seem to pretty vague, brain fog and malaise can be caused by depression or just feeling sorry for yourself.
Plenty of US athletes have gotten it, would be interesting to see if they have any performance change.

That’s the COVID paradox. The longer we look up each morning and see the sky hasn’t fallen in, the more Chicken Little’s run around telling us it’s just about to.