Jobs maybe ? B777/A330 crews
Well the world has changed. Many airlines were struggling before Corona. $800 return fares from all ports in Australia to EU were common. Almost bought TG tickets BNE/BKK/MXP return for school holidays in June 2020. Only catch was connection on way home at BKK, meant overnight.
With the world changing, employment contracts will change as well. The old way of thinking about employment, may also have to change. Just received a brief description from a venture capital mate, of a very interesting proposal about a new medium haul airline operation, that needs someone experienced, like maybe a retired airline CEO to help kick start it, using their contacts & more than the funding in place. Claim was they had AUD$1m in place so far. Idea is to use parked aircraft & crews to start an ULCC or LCC operation, more like a charter operation, where when demand is high, more flights are operated & when demand low, only few flights or none operated.(remember when Allegiant bought a handful of Mad Dogs for nothing, they didn’t even fly them on Tuesday when demand low) Obviously not appealing to most business types who want frequency. Charter ops don’t need a lot of funding, unlike a totally new airline, as run more like a tour operator than an airline. Example was given of Canada 3000 who were probably the 1st real low cost medium to long haul carrier, who were apparently doing very well up to 10 Sept 2001. They were the launch airline for the A332 & put 340 Y seats in them, but were looking at going 2 class like Air Transat, before the **** hit the fan on 11 Sept 2001, which obviously killed them, just at a time, when they have taken over a number of smaller Canadian airlines (Royal & Canjet) They flew to Australia on a scheduled charter basis, whatever that is. FYI routing with A332s was YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ & YYZ/YVR/HNL/RAR/AKL/SYD/BNE/HNL/YVR/YYZ each week & for example, BNE/YVR was called direct (same aircraft) Fares of AUD$750 return BNE & SYD/YVR were common at a time, when options with other airlines were 2 to 3 times those fares (included checked luggage, free seat selection & basic meals) The proposal could equally be applied to A330s or B777s. Hundreds of each are parked & their values have plummeted. Some will never fly again. Evan spare parts costs must have plummeted. Example given was of Nok Scoot B772s, of which they had 7, 2 are parked at ASP. They had 415 seats (24 + 391) Owned by SQ, they could be back on SQ register if SQ wanted very quickly, if they needed to be taken off the Thai register. Seems there are quite a few B777 crews sitting idle. Can a B773 crew fly a B772 with little training ? The proposal suggested that SQ be convinced that there was some money to be made, in a LCC or ULCC type operation & they would provide aircraft at very low lease rates or take equity or both, with no long term commitment. Not the same as Scoot, but similar. SQ 777 crews could be used, but if operation was to be truly low cost, Nok Scoot crews could be used, although if ex VA crews would be prepared to work part time, keeping their currency, until economy recovers in a few years, they would be obvious choice, if flying from Australia. VA crews would probably need to be employed by SQ, on some sort of part time basis. The young love LCCs, as most would rather spend their limited dollars at their destination, not getting there. Possible routes were suggested, Australia & NZ/North America via a tech stop. Tech stop could be one of a number of Pacific nations who would jump at chance of having nonstop flights to Aust/NZ/North America & would have traffic rights, so the tech stop could also be a destination. Crews would need to spend some time at that Pacific nation, but some could probably be based in Australia. North America could mean Canada (YVR but probably low cost Abbotsford instead), maybe 2ndary airports in USA (OAK or ONT) or Mexico (TIJ). TIJ is a special case, being right on the USA border. Via www.crossborderxpress.com aircraft can land in Mexico & passengers can simply walk across U.S. border with their luggage (100 m was quoted) to San Diego for a small fee. Fee depends on numbers of pax at one time but probably USD$10 each way (sure beats the very time consuming, land crossing) & also means attractive to San Diego residence would normally drive/transfer the 2 hours to LAX to get anwyhere long haul, although you could fly SAN/HNL. Most travel agents know, but don’t tell, that it’s almost always cheaper to get separate tickets, (if going to Canada or USA beyond LAX or SFO), to LAX or SFO & then from SFO or LAX to final destination. Guess there might be more commission in it for travel agents, to have all flights on one ticket & less hassles if inbound flight to LAX or SFO is late & trying to connect on separate ticket with 3 hours connection. Many people in the know, do this & then use frequent flyer points to their final destination. So idea seems to make sense. Funding could be in the form of prepurchase of tickets. This already goes on, with most airlines & tour operators. Seems most legacy carriers would love to reduce costs now, to that similar to LCCs but can't due to existing EBAs & unions. Hardest parts seems to be, when to commence ops. Be interesting to hear some comments. |
Originally Posted by BNEA320
(Post 10848485)
Claim was they had AUD$1m in place so far.
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher
(Post 10848503)
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About as good as your “All Borders to Reopen” thread.
Muppet. |
actually rough calculations were wrong. More like 10 return missions Australia/North America.
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Currently no leisure travel is available until further notice to Australian citizens departing Australia
All people allowed back into Australia must quarantine for 14 days at their own expense. There is little appetite in the community for overseas holidays at the moment. Please don't post dribble with misleading titles. |
So let's just see how many failed Canadian charter operators I can think of:
Air Carter Systems Worldways Ontario World Air Nationair Vacationair Odyssey Canada 2000 Canada 3000 Wardair Flair Air Skyservices Holidair Thos. Cook Canada Jetsgo Points of Call Royal Aviation Zoom But yeah...A seductive business model that is fun for young and old to watch from afar. Very very far. |
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
(Post 10848616)
So let's just see how many failed Canadian charter operators I can think of:
Air Carter Systems Worldways Ontario World Air Nationair Vacationair Odyssey Canada 2000 Canada 3000 Wardair Flair Air Skyservices Holidair Thos. Cook Canada Jetsgo Points of Call Royal Aviation Zoom But yeah...A seductive business model that is fun for young and old to watch from afar. Very very far. Eastern Provincial Great Lakes Airways Nordair Northwest Territorial Airways Quebecair Transair Pacific Western Zip I think we have now done Canada. |
Because the ones you listed were all scheduled carriers. We were discussing charter.
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bnea320 is a gaslighting troll. how he/she hasn't been banned is beyond me. consistently adds nothing to this community.
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
(Post 10848654)
Because the ones you listed were all scheduled carriers. We were discussing charter.
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You forgot to throw in "no experience necessary, we'll train you, send your $100 application fee to".
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Originally Posted by lc_461
(Post 10848603)
Currently no leisure travel is available until further notice to Australian citizens departing Australia
All people allowed back into Australia must quarantine for 14 days at their own expense. There is little appetite in the community for overseas holidays at the moment. Please don't post dribble with misleading titles. |
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
(Post 10848677)
Fair enough. Having mentioned Canada 3000 I remember late 90s they use to come into MEL SYD BNE weekly with B757/A330 I think.
Maybe just charter flights not charter airline. Plenty of AOCs around that could be used for purpose. |
Originally Posted by BNEA320
(Post 10848789)
Huge pent up demand. Borders in EU/UK open. UK letting in something like 70 countries without any quarantine.
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Originally Posted by BNEA320
(Post 10848593)
actually rough calculations were wrong. More like 10 return missions Australia/North America.
ANY 777/330 pilot with any self respect who contacts this very naughty boy, over this absolute fantasy should check in with a mental health facility before you are beyond help. |
exfocx - do you know anything about costing a series of charter flights for a low cost airline? Doesn't sound like it. Not talking adhoc or crazy QF pricing.
Don't think you understand charters at all. Limited departure dates, with little flexibility, but cheap. Usually older aircraft, but B772s aren't that old & many A330s around not that old either cf. some of QF fleet. Think you would be a bit more positive about someone creating crew jobs. The person who'd fly a ULCC long haul, are mostly very price sensitive & would not fly same route with likes of Qantas at fares many multiples higher. The backpacker market are resilient & want to fly now, but not at Qantas prices. They will simply stay home. If you were a B777/A330 pilot would you rather fly for a LCC or not fly at all ? Or drive Uber, stack shelves at Coles ? That's the reality, probably for the next few years. Did you know there are a large number of B772s for sale asking $8m or $80k/month to lease, or older A333s for $6m or $60k/month, with no takers. In other words, you could get them for less, much less. Just read about Spirit back into profit soon, while big boys struggle. Covid 19 & recession, playing into LCCs hands. https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/s...-covid-19.html |
Originally Posted by BNEA320
(Post 10849171)
exfocx - do you know anything about costing a series of charter flights for a low cost airline? Doesn't sound like it. Not talking adhoc or crazy QF pricing.
Don't think you understand charters at all. Limited departure dates, with little flexibility, but cheap. Usually older aircraft, but B772s aren't that old & many A330s around not that old either cf. some of QF fleet. Think you would be a bit more positive about someone creating crew jobs. The person who'd fly a ULCC long haul, are mostly very price sensitive & would not fly same route with likes of Qantas at fares many multiples higher. The backpacker market are resilient & want to fly now, but not at Qantas prices. They will simply stay home. If you were a B777/A330 pilot would you rather fly for a LCC or not fly at all ? Or drive Uber, stack shelves at Coles ? That's the reality, probably for the next few years. Did you know there are a large number of B772s for sale asking $8m or $80k/month to lease, or older A333s for $6m or $60k/month, with no takers. In other words, you could get them for less, much less. Just read about Spirit back into profit soon, while big boys struggle. Covid 19 & recession, playing into LCCs hands. https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/s...-covid-19.html We can’t even fly overseas at the moment you knob, there’s a travel ban on non essential travel if you didn’t notice. You’ve got to be the worst travel agent I’ve come across. $1M will do nothing |
I don’t really want to feed the troll, but allow me to emphatically state that, in normal times, YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING AD HOC CHARTER. YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING PACKAGE TOURS. FFS, if you were going to start a venture it would be freight. Easier still...just burn the money and save the effort and heartache.
On a more timely note, as others have mentioned, even the state borders are closed to all but bogan shoplifters and low grade crims. And you cannot get travel insurance for the likely infection so your cheap fare will be offset by a million dollar hospital bill. From experience I can report that flying the average tour customer is like flying prison transfer flights only without the charm. |
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
(Post 10849314)
I don’t really want to feed the troll, but allow me to emphatically state that, in normal times, YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING AD HOC CHARTER. YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING PACKAGE TOURS. FFS, if you were going to start a venture it would be freight. Easier still...just burn the money and save the effort and heartache.
On a more timely note, as others have mentioned, even the state borders are closed to all but bogan shoplifters and low grade crims. And you cannot get travel insurance for the likely infection so your cheap fare will be offset by a million dollar hospital bill. From experience I can report that flying the average tour customer is like flying prison transfer flights only without the charm. Qld/NSW border is not closed. Think Qld/NT & Qld/SA borders may also be open. That covers the most important parts of Australia. Plenty making money selling packages with air. Wholesale fares(cheaper than anything online) exist solely for packages. Also Emirates now have cover for their pax !!! https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/t...om-travel.html |
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