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Jobs maybe ? B777/A330 crews

Old 29th Jul 2020, 01:25
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Jobs maybe ? B777/A330 crews

Well the world has changed. Many airlines were struggling before Corona. $800 return fares from all ports in Australia to EU were common. Almost bought TG tickets BNE/BKK/MXP return for school holidays in June 2020. Only catch was connection on way home at BKK, meant overnight.

With the world changing, employment contracts will change as well.

The old way of thinking about employment, may also have to change.

Just received a brief description from a venture capital mate, of a very interesting proposal about a new medium haul airline operation, that needs someone experienced, like maybe a retired airline CEO to help kick start it, using their contacts & more than the funding in place.

Claim was they had AUD$1m in place so far.

Idea is to use parked aircraft & crews to start an ULCC or LCC operation, more like a charter operation, where when demand is high, more flights are operated & when demand low, only few flights or none operated.(remember when Allegiant bought a handful of Mad Dogs for nothing, they didn’t even fly them on Tuesday when demand low)

Obviously not appealing to most business types who want frequency.

Charter ops don’t need a lot of funding, unlike a totally new airline, as run more like a tour operator than an airline.

Example was given of Canada 3000 who were probably the 1st real low cost medium to long haul carrier, who were apparently doing very well up to 10 Sept 2001.

They were the launch airline for the A332 & put 340 Y seats in them, but were looking at going 2 class like Air Transat, before the shit hit the fan on 11 Sept 2001, which obviously killed them, just at a time, when they have taken over a number of smaller Canadian airlines (Royal & Canjet)

They flew to Australia on a scheduled charter basis, whatever that is.

FYI routing with A332s was

YYZ/YVR/HNL/BNE/SYD/AKL/RAR/HNL/YVR/YYZ

&

YYZ/YVR/HNL/RAR/AKL/SYD/BNE/HNL/YVR/YYZ

each week & for example, BNE/YVR was called direct (same aircraft) Fares of AUD$750 return BNE & SYD/YVR were common at a time, when options with other airlines were 2 to 3 times those fares (included checked luggage, free seat selection & basic meals)

The proposal could equally be applied to A330s or B777s. Hundreds of each are parked & their values have plummeted. Some will never fly again. Evan spare parts costs must have plummeted.

Example given was of Nok Scoot B772s, of which they had 7, 2 are parked at ASP.

They had 415 seats (24 + 391)

Owned by SQ, they could be back on SQ register if SQ wanted very quickly, if they needed to be taken off the Thai register.

Seems there are quite a few B777 crews sitting idle.

Can a B773 crew fly a B772 with little training ?

The proposal suggested that SQ be convinced that there was some money to be made, in a LCC or ULCC type operation & they would provide aircraft at very low lease rates or take equity or both, with no long term commitment. Not the same as Scoot, but similar.

SQ 777 crews could be used, but if operation was to be truly low cost, Nok Scoot crews could be used, although if ex VA crews would be prepared to work part time, keeping their currency, until economy recovers in a few years, they would be obvious choice, if flying from Australia. VA crews would probably need to be employed by SQ, on some sort of part time basis.

The young love LCCs, as most would rather spend their limited dollars at their destination, not getting there.

Possible routes were suggested, Australia & NZ/North America via a tech stop. Tech stop could be one of a number of Pacific nations who would jump at chance of having nonstop flights to Aust/NZ/North America & would have traffic rights, so the tech stop could also be a destination.

Crews would need to spend some time at that Pacific nation, but some could probably be based in Australia.

North America could mean Canada (YVR but probably low cost Abbotsford instead), maybe 2ndary airports in USA (OAK or ONT) or Mexico (TIJ).

TIJ is a special case, being right on the USA border. Via www.crossborderxpress.com aircraft can land in Mexico & passengers can simply walk across U.S. border with their luggage (100 m was quoted) to San Diego for a small fee. Fee depends on numbers of pax at one time but probably USD$10 each way (sure beats the very time consuming, land crossing) & also means attractive to San Diego residence would normally drive/transfer the 2 hours to LAX to get anwyhere long haul, although you could fly SAN/HNL.

Most travel agents know, but don’t tell, that it’s almost always cheaper to get separate tickets, (if going to Canada or USA beyond LAX or SFO), to LAX or SFO & then from SFO or LAX to final destination. Guess there might be more commission in it for travel agents, to have all flights on one ticket & less hassles if inbound flight to LAX or SFO is late & trying to connect on separate ticket with 3 hours connection.

Many people in the know, do this & then use frequent flyer points to their final destination.

So idea seems to make sense.

Funding could be in the form of prepurchase of tickets. This already goes on, with most airlines & tour operators.

Seems most legacy carriers would love to reduce costs now, to that similar to LCCs but can't due to existing EBAs & unions.

Hardest parts seems to be, when to commence ops.

Be interesting to hear some comments.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 02:35
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Originally Posted by BNEA320 View Post
Claim was they had AUD$1m in place so far.
Cool!.........and its gone

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Old 29th Jul 2020, 02:58
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Originally Posted by Buttscratcher View Post
Cool!.........and its gone

https://youtu.be/jRRs0BrBDx0
a couple of million pay for a short series of charter flights, probably as many as 5 or more returns Australia/North America. Gotta start somewhere.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 03:04
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About as good as your ďAll Borders to ReopenĒ thread.

Muppet.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 06:59
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actually rough calculations were wrong. More like 10 return missions Australia/North America.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 07:17
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Currently no leisure travel is available until further notice to Australian citizens departing Australia
All people allowed back into Australia must quarantine for 14 days at their own expense.
There is little appetite in the community for overseas holidays at the moment.
Please don't post dribble with misleading titles.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 07:39
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So let's just see how many failed Canadian charter operators I can think of:

Air Carter Systems
Worldways
Ontario World Air
Nationair
Vacationair
Odyssey
Canada 2000
Canada 3000
Wardair
Flair Air
Skyservices
Holidair
Thos. Cook Canada
Jetsgo
Points of Call
Royal Aviation
Zoom

But yeah...A seductive business model that is fun for young and old to watch from afar. Very very far.

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Old 29th Jul 2020, 08:18
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
So let's just see how many failed Canadian charter operators I can think of:

Air Carter Systems
Worldways
Ontario World Air
Nationair
Vacationair
Odyssey
Canada 2000
Canada 3000
Wardair
Flair Air
Skyservices
Holidair
Thos. Cook Canada
Jetsgo
Points of Call
Royal Aviation
Zoom

But yeah...A seductive business model that is fun for young and old to watch from afar. Very very far.
Goodness gracious me Australopithecus how could you possibly forget:

Eastern Provincial
Great Lakes Airways
Nordair
Northwest Territorial Airways
Quebecair
Transair
Pacific Western
Zip

I think we have now done Canada.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 08:38
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Because the ones you listed were all scheduled carriers. We were discussing charter.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 08:56
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bnea320 is a gaslighting troll. how he/she hasn't been banned is beyond me. consistently adds nothing to this community.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 09:12
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
Because the ones you listed were all scheduled carriers. We were discussing charter.
Fair enough. Having mentioned Canada 3000 I remember late 90s they use to come into MEL SYD BNE weekly with B757/A330 I think.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 09:29
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You forgot to throw in "no experience necessary, we'll train you, send your $100 application fee to".
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 13:08
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Originally Posted by lc_461 View Post
Currently no leisure travel is available until further notice to Australian citizens departing Australia
All people allowed back into Australia must quarantine for 14 days at their own expense.
There is little appetite in the community for overseas holidays at the moment.
Please don't post dribble with misleading titles.
Huge pent up demand. Borders in EU/UK open. UK letting in something like 70 countries without any quarantine.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 13:09
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
Fair enough. Having mentioned Canada 3000 I remember late 90s they use to come into MEL SYD BNE weekly with B757/A330 I think.
Don't think Canada 3000 ever flew into MEL & BNE was only with A332.

Maybe just charter flights not charter airline. Plenty of AOCs around that could be used for purpose.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 13:36
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Originally Posted by BNEA320 View Post
Huge pent up demand. Borders in EU/UK open. UK letting in something like 70 countries without any quarantine.
The UK is mad. They just keep importing more cases.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 15:15
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Originally Posted by BNEA320 View Post
actually rough calculations were wrong. More like 10 return missions Australia/North America.
BNEA320, (I'm having a BAD day, so pls peeps, forgive me!). BNEA320, you REALLY are clueless, that 1m isn't going to get ONE charter flight to the US let alone TEN. I've really had enough of your crap, if you DON'T stop posting this shit I'm gunna call your mummy and ask her to pull the plug on your internet connection! Get it? STOP RIGHT NOW. Too much already!

ANY 777/330 pilot with any self respect who contacts this very naughty boy, over this absolute fantasy should check in with a mental health facility before you are beyond help.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 01:43
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exfocx - do you know anything about costing a series of charter flights for a low cost airline? Doesn't sound like it. Not talking adhoc or crazy QF pricing.

Don't think you understand charters at all. Limited departure dates, with little flexibility, but cheap. Usually older aircraft, but B772s aren't that old & many A330s around not that old either cf. some of QF fleet.

Think you would be a bit more positive about someone creating crew jobs. The person who'd fly a ULCC long haul, are mostly very price sensitive & would not fly same route with likes of Qantas at fares many multiples higher. The backpacker market are resilient & want to fly now, but not at Qantas prices. They will simply stay home.

If you were a B777/A330 pilot would you rather fly for a LCC or not fly at all ? Or drive Uber, stack shelves at Coles ? That's the reality, probably for the next few years.

Did you know there are a large number of B772s for sale asking $8m or $80k/month to lease, or older A333s for $6m or $60k/month, with no takers. In other words, you could get them for less, much less.

Just read about Spirit back into profit soon, while big boys struggle. Covid 19 & recession, playing into LCCs hands.

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/s...-covid-19.html

Last edited by BNEA320; 30th Jul 2020 at 03:05.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 07:01
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Originally Posted by BNEA320 View Post
exfocx - do you know anything about costing a series of charter flights for a low cost airline? Doesn't sound like it. Not talking adhoc or crazy QF pricing.

Don't think you understand charters at all. Limited departure dates, with little flexibility, but cheap. Usually older aircraft, but B772s aren't that old & many A330s around not that old either cf. some of QF fleet.

Think you would be a bit more positive about someone creating crew jobs. The person who'd fly a ULCC long haul, are mostly very price sensitive & would not fly same route with likes of Qantas at fares many multiples higher. The backpacker market are resilient & want to fly now, but not at Qantas prices. They will simply stay home.

If you were a B777/A330 pilot would you rather fly for a LCC or not fly at all ? Or drive Uber, stack shelves at Coles ? That's the reality, probably for the next few years.

Did you know there are a large number of B772s for sale asking $8m or $80k/month to lease, or older A333s for $6m or $60k/month, with no takers. In other words, you could get them for less, much less.

Just read about Spirit back into profit soon, while big boys struggle. Covid 19 & recession, playing into LCCs hands.

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/s...-covid-19.html
OMFG youíre an idiot

We canít even fly overseas at the moment you knob, thereís a travel ban on non essential travel if you didnít notice. Youíve got to be the worst travel agent Iíve come across.

$1M will do nothing
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 08:01
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I don’t really want to feed the troll, but allow me to emphatically state that, in normal times, YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING AD HOC CHARTER. YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING PACKAGE TOURS. FFS, if you were going to start a venture it would be freight. Easier still...just burn the money and save the effort and heartache.

On a more timely note, as others have mentioned, even the state borders are closed to all but bogan shoplifters and low grade crims. And you cannot get travel insurance for the likely infection so your cheap fare will be offset by a million dollar hospital bill.

From experience I can report that flying the average tour customer is like flying prison transfer flights only without the charm.

Last edited by Australopithecus; 30th Jul 2020 at 08:16.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 08:59
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
I don’t really want to feed the troll, but allow me to emphatically state that, in normal times, YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING AD HOC CHARTER. YOU CANNOT MAKE MONEY FLYING PACKAGE TOURS. FFS, if you were going to start a venture it would be freight. Easier still...just burn the money and save the effort and heartache.

On a more timely note, as others have mentioned, even the state borders are closed to all but bogan shoplifters and low grade crims. And you cannot get travel insurance for the likely infection so your cheap fare will be offset by a million dollar hospital bill.

From experience I can report that flying the average tour customer is like flying prison transfer flights only without the charm.
not ad hoc !!!

Qld/NSW border is not closed. Think Qld/NT & Qld/SA borders may also be open. That covers the most important parts of Australia.

Plenty making money selling packages with air. Wholesale fares(cheaper than anything online) exist solely for packages.

Also Emirates now have cover for their pax !!!

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/t...om-travel.html
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