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Things don't look too Rosy for VA
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Did you read the article? Typicall JB spin but fundamentals are better. |
All propped up by HNA and friends....
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You would have to say, with revenue of $5.4 BILLION and lots of full aeroplanes flying around, they simply do not know what they are doing. Consistent losses year after year. Amazing stuff.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...28-p500bz.html |
Sounds strangely like a $2B loss not that long ago |
Yes, I suspect there is some housekeeping going on there. You would think it would raise alarm bells for the board with regards who they are going to get to take over the ceo role. Any internal candidates would be tainted by the result you might think. |
We need MM to change the cabin crew uniforms to turn it all around. |
Exactly. All set up for the heroes (our saviour) departure in 6-12. Smoke and Mirrors. |
House of cards! Without continued foreign capital injection, the music stops. How long can this continue before the financial taps are turned off? |
Fundamentals are better, they ave written off the deferred tax asset, it's just about making next year look better,
Excluding those items, underlying profit was $110 million, up from last year's $4 million loss, and the strongest result since 2008 Domestic Market is booming for VA and QF right now, VA should be making massive profits under the right leadership |
Originally Posted by Half Baked
(Post 10235926)
House of cards! Without continued foreign capital injection, the music stops. How long can this continue before the financial taps are turned off? This huge net loss is Virgin taking a bath on a few items, after which things will improve in future. The charges are accounting and not cash, so fundamentally they aren't dipping into the kitty to make up any shortfall - indeed, the kitty is growing. Their next challenge will be to pare down some of their debt. |
A lot of misunderstanding here in regards to numbers, I must be on a pilots forum right? The tax offset is non cash. There is no needing to be ‘propped up’. |
If you want to look at “fundamentals”, all segments - tiger, va international, loyalty are performing worse than prior year - except for VA domestic. Tiger and international are still loss making. The domestic market is proped up by sequential capacity cuts into growing demand. This cannot and will not last forever. Airline industry has just about the same level of barrier to entry as your local deli... |
downdata, that was a result of the exit of the E190/atr which was replaced with new 737s but they were not like for like as they are configured heavier and didn’t have the same amount in order . They had to give some flying to Alliance as they didn’t have the capacity. They briefed the media on this last year. |
Qantas must have been up for murder and genocide when they announced their $2.8 billion loss a few years ago according to all the accountants on here. For the rest of us mere mortals, here is an article explaining why it’s one of their best results in some time: https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...29-p500fr.html |
Originally Posted by downdata
(Post 10235965)
If you want to look at “fundamentals”, all segments - tiger, va international, loyalty are performing worse than prior year - except for VA domestic. Tiger and international are still loss making. The domestic market is proped up by sequential capacity cuts into growing demand. This cannot and will not last forever. Airline industry has just about the same level of barrier to entry as your local deli... Having said that, the ratio of local delis (or milk bars for those in certain provinces) still operating compared to those that have gone bust is around the same. |
Originally Posted by TimmyTee
(Post 10235996)
Qantas must have been up for murder and genocide when they announced their $2.8 billion loss a few years ago according to all the accountants on here. For the rest of us mere mortals, here is an article explaining why it’s one of their best results in some time: https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...29-p500fr.html As did Etihad, impairing the A380 to zero value on the books. Whether the unions at Virgin are stupid enough to buy the largess of the 'loss' and agree to pay freezes only to witness 'an amazing transformation' the next financial year is an other story entirely. What that means is, the statutory loss of $2.8 billion does not represent a cash loss to the company, rather it is a paper loss in the value of its assets. It is a bit like when the value of your house goes up, or down, your wages and your bills do not move.So in terms of the money in the door and out the door, Qantas was still in the red. The underlying loss of $646 million again looks like a big number, and it is, but crucially it was better than some had expected.For the first time in a long time, chief executive Alan Joyce said investors could expect an underlying profit in the first half of this financial year. |
VA should be making massive profits under the right leadership MM and Blunty have absolutely no idea about how to run an airline. At least John Thomas knows what the problems are, and has the ability to fix them. He also has the support of all the frontline staff, unlike the incumbent. Let’s just hope the board has the good sense to make him the next CEO for the benefit of everyone! |
With the current financial state of HNA they can't expect to rely on too many more bailouts.
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I keep hearing that JT is the new saviour. So was Borghetti. Do you guys actually think the same board that sacked him will give him the top job? Seriously? Get some board turnover and MAYBE, MAYBE you might have half a chance. Looking at some of the comments on here, it is pretty obvious that some simply fall for the headline, and don't read any further.
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Krismiler, it isn’t only Hainan, Etihad have had significant losses included big losses associated with their partner airlines, and jet airways is screaming for a cash injection, the indication being they only had weeks of cash with which to continue operating. Given they have cut off both Alitalia and Air Berlin, I would be surprised if Jet got any additional equity from the mothership, and same same virgin Australia, i also hear around the water cooler than Nanshan is sitting there scratching their heads going “huh” and wondering what to do, so all in all the ownership structure might be about to morph into something quite different. porch Monkey - good point and on face value it might have been a majority decision to excise JT from the business but would have been done so with significant lobbying from someone with potentially similar initials (but maybe not) as we saw with the change in MT’s fortunes in cbr recently a few days can significantly alter an outcome, and who is to say the board would vote the same way again, particularly after the qf/anz link up and other various issues. |
People forget that ANZ and QF code shared for years before they got into bed with VA. So it was quite likely they would go back. Sadly, the real reason ANZ got out will never be known in the public arena. Snake, it isn't just the board, it is also the public support he has received from one of the unions, to the extent of a "survey" being distributed to it's members regarding this. If you can think of one Australian board who have appointed a CEO that whether by perception or reality, was a favourite of the unions, I'll be very surprised. I don't say this because I don't think he can do it. I truly don't know as I have never met the man. But the more public nut hugging I see going on for him, the less I think his chances are, given the Australian industrial management style.
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who is to say the board would vote the same way again Rumour has it that the majority of the board now want JB gone, and I reckon it’s a pretty safe bet that they wouldn’t want one of his cronies to replace him. |
Originally Posted by aussie1234
(Post 10235894)
Sounds strangely like a $2B loss not that long ago |
What about the shareholders value including the mum and dad investors? Poor form I think while JB collects the loot!
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If you believe the AFR, board will support quick move of JB for hopefully JT. If not they sell 5% to activist to shake things up and clear the decks more throughly. 51% shareholders are on board with this, China not showing their cards... yet. |
Yeah, AP, we get it. You hate Virgin, you hate the management, whatever. Same old bile and vitriol in every post. Got something useful for us?
"If you believe the AFR". Says it all........... |
All this talk about JT. You lot need to remember the Chairman was the one who sacked him. Highly likely she would reappoint him now, not. |
All this talk about JT. You lot need to remember the Chairman was the one who sacked him. Highly likely she would reappoint him now, not. |
Originally Posted by porch monkey
(Post 10236283)
Yeah, AP, we get it. You hate Virgin, you hate the management, whatever. Same old bile and vitriol in every post. Got something useful for us?
"If you believe the AFR". Says it all........... No, I don’t hate Virgin I know there are some good people there but none of them are in management - I also know a lot of good people who’ve been shafted by the current leadership. My argument is not with the company but it’s management. Mate you seriously going to contend that a business that has lost money hand over fist since this overrated imbecile took over and has had billions poured in for no return should still be there... had a friend once who was a PA to a MD in the mining industry, the share price dropped 10% and stated there for 6 months and the MD, the PA and everyone around them was fired... The share price is around 22c... it’s been there for 5-6 years, the company is in net loss to a massive extent for the whole time he’s been there, some good people have been recruited then shafted when they disagreed with him and it’s always someone else’s fault... bought Skywest and got rid of half the aeroplanes, now paying Alliance to do the flying, someone else’s fault... the A320/B737 TT debacle, someone else’s fault... millions piled into LAX, still losing money, someone else’s fault, automation mistakes, someone else’s fault... DPS debacle, someone else’s fault... his arse in business class more important than a person positioning to fly an aircaraft because of some 70s misconception about staff travel yet allows staff to travel in J long haul... I guess that was someone else’s fault too... all you hear from that company is decent people asking “why did we do a instead of b, it doesn’t make sense...” answered with “JB wanted...” I keep commenting because the company is a corporate joke and it’s CEO is the most overrated executive in the industry... the fact this guy is still being paid a salary let alone a bonus for ch***t sake is completely laughable. This bloke is the Basil Fawlty of the aviation industry and his inner circle is full of Manuels... |
Anyone who buys the line about the fundamentals being sound, think about this, after ignoring the write downs... they made $110 million on revenue of $5.4 Billion, just think about that. |
Originally Posted by logansi
(Post 10235942)
Fundamentals are better, they ave written off the deferred tax asset, it's just about making next year look better,
Excluding those items, underlying profit was $110 million, up from last year's $4 million loss, and the strongest result since 2008 |
From today’s Australian:- Whether or not Mr Borghetti would be delivering the next result was less clear, with the CEO indicating he may be gone well before January 2020. “I’m staying here for another few months or thereabouts,” he said. “The company is conducting a search and when they find someone and a proper handover is done, then I’ll go.” |
Forget the article headline, read the article in reverse, starting at the last paragraph:
”The company said the loss was driven by a $573 million hit from accounting adjustments, including taking out $452 million in deferred tax assets from the books and a $121 million write down in the value of its international business.” Then the second last paragraph: ’The loss came despite revenue increasing by 7.4 per cent to a record $5.4 billion and a doubling in its net cash position to $540 million.” I seem to recall another Australian airline doing something not dissimilar in recent years? With a little tweaking in management Virgin could be looking like a good investment! |
Originally Posted by James 1077
(Post 10236737)
Except the only reason that you can write off a deferred tax asset is if Management do not believe that they will have sufficient future taxable profits to utilise the tax asset. So, no matter how Management dress this up, their view MUST (under accounting rules) be that they aren't profitable in the medium to long-term; what is more the auditors must agree with this following a review of their future financial projections.
In saying that, there is apparently $1.4 billion in cash sitting around. And they are reducing their leverage, I'm guessing by paying debt down. By the looks of it they don't need any cash injections either from shareholders. At least the free cash flow is there to keep the place running...no paying for fuel on delivery..... Sure the share price is low, but it's not a very liquid share with a tiny free float. It doesn't exactly attract the big financial institutions to buy and retail holders very seldom move the market. It will be interesting to see if they will delay the MAX again or reduce the rate of MAX deliveries... I though I read in the Sydney Morning Herald that JB did not expect many MAXs to be around when the 10s started arriving in 2022.. “We don’t want to fly our 737s for 25, 26 years like Qantas does,” said Mr Borghetti, adding he expected Virgin to have taken on “closer to 10… than 30” of the new aircraft by 2022. JT is also out of the running for CEO... https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...29-p500jp.html |
All this FY report tells me is JB will be here for another 12mths. His bonus in 12mths will be astronomical and he’ll walk out the door. The board was/is self appointed by JB so the talk about them wanting him gone is rubbish so is all this JT talk.
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JT is also out of the running for CEO. Unless on your in the executive circle nobody knows what went down behind closed doors. As much as I got was she got rid of him and he was never to return. You don’t then go rehire someone who you cannot stand and fired. According to some on this forum you do. |
JT is also out of the running for CEO...
Originally Posted by PoppaJo
(Post 10236874)
He was only ever in the running according to Pprune show ponies. Unless on your in the executive circle nobody knows what went down behind closed doors. As much as I got was she got rid of him and he was never to return. You don’t then go rehire someone who you cannot stand and fired. According to some on this forum you do. As of last week he was still in contention. A long list to take the reins at Virgin Australia has begun to take shape with former Australia Post boss Ahmed Fahour and Westpac executive George Frazis some of the names under consideration to succeed chief executive John Borghetti |
AP, my reading is fine. I was answering 2 posts in the same post. I "contend" nothing. I have expressed no opinion on whether I believe Borghetti should stay, go or anything else. My opinion is completely irrelevant in the context of who gets the job next. Which is why I don't get stressed over it. You on the other hand, are gonna blow a seal if you keep that ranting up........
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Bullwinkle, it doesn't matter that much who gets the job. What is important is that they surround themselves with capable, knowledgeable staff, and that they ACTUALLY LISTEN to what said staff tells them. Sadly, neither of those things usually happen.
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