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Cobham Cadet Pilot Progam
Cobham press releaseCobham Cadet Pilot ProgamCobham Aviation Services has partnered with Flight Training Adelaide to provide a world-class cadetship program for aspiring pilots.The Cobham Cadet Pilot Program (CCPP) will commence in early 2019 with the first intake of cadets attending the 53-week residential training program at Flight Training Adelaide. The program is focused on bringing the best and brightest into our Special Mission operating business. One of the critical operations conducted by Cobham involves airborne surveillance spanning the country’s exclusive economic zone utilising ten highly modified Dash 8 aircraft. The cadets will be trained specifically with the skills and flight experience to become a Dash 8 First Officer at the conclusion of the program. Applications for the 2019 intake are open for a limited period from 3 August 2018. For more information and to apply, please visit: www.flyfta.com/pilot-training/cobham Todays Adelaide Advertiser Cobham has launched a new cadet program for aspiring pilotsGiuseppe Tauriello, The Advertiser August 3, 2018 12:30amASPIRING pilots are being sought by aviation group Cobham Aviation Services Australia for a new specialist cadet program launched in Adelaide. The Cobham Cadet Pilot Program is open to candidates with little or no flight experience, offering an opportunity to join the company’s special mission flight operations in Broome, Cairns and Darwin. As part of the special mission operations, Cobham conducts aerial surveillance for the Federal Government with a fleet of ten highly-modified Dash 8 aircraft. Cobham special mission general manager Ken Millar said the program would prepare cadets with all the skills needed to operate in the role of first officer on the specialist aircraft. “This is not regular passenger transport flying - it’s unique, hands-on, low-level flying,” he said. “Ultimately, graduates will have the rare opportunity to combine their love of flying with national security and environmental protection.” Cobham is partnering with Flight Training Adelaide to deliver the 53-week cadet program, which will commence early next year. Mr Millar said Cobham launched the program in response to the global pilot shortage, and to create entry-level opportunities to join its crews. “Flight Training Adelaide is a highly reputable and highly professional pilot training organisation and we are thrilled to partner with them on this exciting initiative,” he said. Applications are open until August 12, with the eight successful cadets to be based at Flight Training Adelaide’s Parafield Airport premises for the duration of the course. The cadetship is funded primarily by Federal Government vocational and education training (VET) student loans, with Cobham subsidising the balance of the training fees. |
Gee it’s pretty expensive. How many young aspiring pilots have that sort of money? |
Here's an idea Mr/Miss/Ms/Perz(?) Management, how about instead of neglecting pilot training to the extent that more than just a few airlines are parking a/c up against the fence, pay for people to learn, instead of naive youngsters coughing up $150k plus with zero guarantees.
What costs more, lease payments on a/c up against the fence, or investing in your future employees. I know what the bean counters will say, pilots are a cost. Reap what you sow. |
Sorry Cobham. You’ve got this one very wrong. |
Edited to remove fluff: Over the 1 year course, on top of maxing out the FEEHELP account at over 100k, an extra $44,000 required to be paid. No guaranteed position at Cobham, even if successfully completing the course. $270 to apply. Finish the course and turn down a job offer (regardless of base), Cobham issue a $20,098 bill. |
When was the last airline subsidised cadet course? |
Cathay
Emirates Etihad Singapore Airlines Kenya Airways All the Chinese airlines |
Isn't it say that $20,188.00 will be paid by Cobham and you'll only pay if you pull out if offered a job?
Most people using student loans are maxing out there student loan at $100,000 Also if under 22 Youth Allowance + Rent allowance is $16,000 per year towards the renting/meals Expensive but sadly kinda on par with students doing uni courses or student loans diploma. |
So let me get this straight! I pay over $100K for a job that will guarantee nothing in regard to an ongoing career. Any parent/carer/sponsor must ask the question "what does this guarantee?" the answer is nothing. My daughter has just finished Medicine and she has a Hex of $121K and she has more scope than what this offers. Remember Qantas sub-contract Cobham and the Jetstar Cadetship cost over $145K with no career expirations at all. Cobham and Jetstar are making money out of these schemes. Buyer beware! Most pilots turn up at an Airline with a qualification that cost the Airline nothing! This has to change. The Airline industry must stop spending money on themselves and start investing in the industry(both Pilots and Engineers) but I cannot see that happening anytime soon.
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The funniest thing is they probably actually think this will solve their pilot shortage.... |
If you were a young person and willing to bet on career longevity in spite of technological advances threatening the traditional two-pilot flight deck, why in hell would you consider this lame-brained* scheme? Better to attend Griffith or similar, get an E3 visa and fly in the US where the experience and remuneration are worth the entry price. *=cognitively challenged, with apologies to the actual lame, and the genuinely feeble-minded. |
A question from someone not up to date on military gear, does the governments recent $14billion purchase of long range surveillance drones look to replace the type of work Cobham special missions perform? |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 10214267)
When was the last airline subsidised cadet course? |
As long as these program generate takers, the companies have no motivation to change the format.
Maybe if they announce a program and get ZERO responses, it'll get their attention. But that won't happen. |
Originally Posted by Street garbage
(Post 10214238)
Here's an idea Mr/Miss/Ms/Perz(?) Management, how about instead of neglecting pilot training to the extent that more than just a few airlines are parking a/c up against the fence, pay for people to learn, instead of naive youngsters coughing up $150k plus with zero guarantees.
What costs more, lease payments on a/c up against the fence, or investing in your future employees. I know what the bean counters will say, pilots are a cost. Reap what you sow. This is precisely why these 'schemes' will continue to pop up until airline HR/IR see their recruitment quotas fall below threshold. Airlines are facing a mean reversion that they ignored for decades: Demographic changes are slow to be felt but will overwhelm their model to the point that they will be faced with either changing the way they treat and remunerate pilots, or generate ZERO operating revenue. Maybe if they announce a program and get ZERO responses, it'll get their attention. But that won't happen. What will actually be the case is high school student "T" with time in the Air League, good marks at school and Captain of the Form 3 soccer team, hopes one day to be an airline pilot, as it looks cool*...." Such are the applications received from at least one Major operator * Changed to protect identity |
THe real issue seems to be that the Cobham dash 8 operation isn't a very enjoyable place to work. Whilst I have never been an employee I know many who have.
People don't quit jobs they quit management. This will simply get the FO to stay an extra 24 months before they all run away too. |
Now watch the exodus of mission coordinators and observers, they will be thrilled with the zero time copilots. Once upon a time you needed close to 5000 hours to get that seat on a Dash! |
They've put a "zero time" pilot through before (a Qantas cadet), he was very good, and there were no rumblings at all from the observer crews about it AFAIK. The crew are all on intercom, they can hear what's going on up the front, and they can tell when there's a "struggler" up there. They are also smart enough to know that hours has very little to do with it.
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No point slamming Cobham over this program - it is no different to every other Australian "cadet pilot program" - Virgin, Rex, Jetstar - they all require the student to end up paying for the course with no guarantee of a job at the end. They are all exactly the same as the university courses with a brand name attached. Its a pi$$ poor effort by airlines in Australia to manage business succession planning.
As a "mature age" wannabe pilot - I have a life set-up here in Aus but if I ever wanted to make it to an airline, I would have to consider moving to a different country to facilitate it (e.g. E3 to US). Its pretty disappointing that the bean counters that operate these airlines work to the MO of forcing potential pilots offshore at their own cost then poaching them back after a few thousand hours on type. I cant see it changing any time soon either. |
Originally Posted by hoss
(Post 10214805)
Now watch the exodus of mission coordinators and observers, they will be thrilled with the zero time copilots. Once upon a time you needed close to 5000 hours to get that seat on a Dash! |
Aerocat,
Maybe this one person was ok but will the dash 8 operation change the training to cater to significantly less experienced new joiners? Qlink and Jstar had some very close shaves early on in their cadet program. I dont think low level night ops over water will be so forgiving. |
They had a different training program for him and I'm sure they will use that experience to help design a permanent program for low hour pilots.
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I'll agree Aerocat as I've flown with them and also with the previous QF cadet when I was a MC. But that being said I also saw a lot of FO's type and non type rated not make it through the training. It will definitely be an interesting time but if you flood the aircraft with cadets in the right seat I cant seeing it end well. Drip feed them 1-2 per base every 12 months it might have a better chance of surviving. I've been out of their game for a number of years now but it was also discussed as far back around 07/08. I look forward to seeing how this one plays out
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Won't the cadets go to the 717? That seems to be where the big problem is with flight cancellations.
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 10215627)
Won't the cadets go to the 717? That seems to be where the big problem is with flight cancellations.
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With all the Airline, most regional and now airwork operators filing the right seat with 200hr chaps, what hope does someone from a normal flying school have ?
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That program does not make for many places for a 53 week duration.
It is 1048 hours over the 53 weeks at an average of $117 per hour inc 200 flying. They certainly are not making money out of it. |
Not making any money?
ATPL ground school at a very reputable school, $4400. BAK, PPL, CPL and IREX is less than $4000 at a good school in Melbourne. These guys are making a good dollar at those prices. I will use those prices as a guide as to what FTA charge for ground theory. So 100k minus 8.4k equals 91.6k $92k for a CPL and IR rating? Bargain. And before anyone calls me out on it, I didn't include the MCC cost because Cobham already provide this to new hires as part of the bond agreement. The fact that they are charging cadets for it is a sign of their good will. |
Originally Posted by pilotchute
(Post 10215922)
Not making any money?
ATPL ground school at a very reputable school, $4400. BAK, PPL, CPL and IREX is less than $4000 at a good school in Melbourne. These guys are king a good dollar at those prices. So 100k minus 8.4k equals 91.6k $92k for a CPL and IR rating? Bargain. $117 is subsidized. Less than that is prostitution. Ever run a company? |
Originally Posted by AerocatS2A
(Post 10215638)
The cadet program is for the Dash 8s. Don't let the existence of a Cobham "group" of companies lead you to the conclusion that it is one big happy company, sharing and caring for pilots. Cobham hire into 'silos' called 'business units' and do not facilitate pilot transfers across those business units. There were a smattering up to and including 2001. Another smattering when "Uday" ascended to the GM throne and rewarded a few loyal SA drivers. Nothing since. Perhaps that may change. On the day that it does, I shall look to the west to see the sun rise. ;-) |
Who is “Uday”? |
Laced with typical HR and management "uptalk", but it will be far from a good thing for anyone who is lured into signing up.
I'll just leave these here: Toxic Deceptive Skin deep safety culture Exploitation Do with those what you will. |
Most pilots turn up at an Airline with a qualification that cost the Airline nothing! This has to change. My daughter has just finished Medicine and she has a Hex of $121K |
I dont think medical graduates go door knocking for jobs or start on $42k a year
Bend a lot. Can you explain your response you lost me. |
Originally Posted by pilotchute
(Post 10218780)
I dont think medical graduates go door knocking for jobs or start on $42k a year
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I dont think medical graduates go door knocking for jobs or start on $42k a year In 2014 a study by the major Universities reported "the average starting salary among all graduates was $48,888", so pilot "graduates", while below the average, certainly aren't alone. Everyone has to start somewhere, and it's usually at the bottom. |
I see your point Traffic, but to be fair, universities do not accept more students than there are placements for doctors. If you cut the mustard in Med school, and pass off as a normal human with respect to work ethic, presentation, etc. you are guaranteed a job afterwards. The starting salary you quote is also the first year 'internship' salary which climbs to $200k within a few short years. You are not stuck on 45k as a university tutor for three years before progressing to a hospital seniority list starting at 80k for the next 5 years before finally getting the golden nugget.
Each to their own though. Im sure Cobham will fill their quota and then some with people willing to fork out a buck fifty with no guarantees. |
They don't accept more students than there are places for doctors because the AMA and associated professional guilds etc control the numbers. Uni's do however, churn out engineers, accountants, teachers etc in far greater numbers than there are jobs, thus forcing some to settle for something else, or go overseas seeking positions. The starting salary I quoted from the report was the average of all graduates. Med grads were $64.5k behind engineers on $68k. If you want to make money rather than follow your passion, choose them.
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Two points to remember. You actually have to do really well at high school to get into a medicine degree. You also have to study incredibly hard to graduate.
A CPL course will take almost anyone and will keep you repeating things until you pass or run out of money. Medical school won't let you do that. When you get a CPL your qualified to fly pretty much nothing bigger than a 182 and that's it. Medical graduates have a wide selection of career paths that don't necessarily coincide with treating human patients. A medical degree is a bit more of a meal ticket than a CPL. |
The starting salary you quote is also the first year 'internship' salary which climbs to $200k within a few short years. |
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