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-   -   Launy for QF Training School (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/608601-launy-qf-training-school.html)

Another Number 27th Sep 2018 00:19

Qantas to build flying school in regional Queensland - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

airspace alpha 27th Sep 2018 01:22

And the contract for training provider goes to L3 Aviation (UK) who have a base in Hamilton NZ. The question then arises as to how they will obtain an Australian AOC, what aircraft they will acquire and most importantly where are they going to get the instructors from?

Jeps 27th Sep 2018 01:42


And the contract for training provider goes to L3 Aviation (UK) who have a base in Hamilton NZ. The question then arises as to how they will obtain an Australian AOC, what aircraft they will acquire and most importantly where are they going to get the instructors from?
Minor details :ugh:

Goat Whisperer 27th Sep 2018 02:01


and most importantly where are they going to get the instructors from?
if you were an instructor wouldn't you go work at the school that could provide you with a seniority number at the biggest aviation business in the country?

If anyone will struggle to get instructors it won't be them.

And the biggest business is going to find it easiest to get the govt to approve 457 visas.

Don Diego 27th Sep 2018 02:17

Where does it say that the instructors will have a seniority number in Q ?? The instructors will work for the foreign contractor as far I can see. All smoke and mirrors, the amount of s*&t that is coming will be amusing to say the least.
P.S. hate to say I told you the winner over a month ago.

cLeArIcE 27th Sep 2018 02:39

Instructors given a qf Seniority number? :} hahaha no chance in hell of that happening.
They will either get their instructors from;
1. The large pool that were deemed not suitable to fly for qf/qf link due to their inability to decide which shape came next in the pattern sequence
*ironic that they'll be teaching the next QF generation OR

2. A poison berry (disguised as a carrot ) will be dangled from a sufficient height to suggest the "possibility" of future employment in the QF group. (after a long period of time.)
*Doubley ironic. These instructors would be considered for the qf group without the time restriction had they chosen to work somewhere else AND they are training the very people in such quantities that will likely prevent them from obtaining a position with the qf group.

Maybe im just getting cynical in my old age

Going Nowhere 27th Sep 2018 02:44

https://www.reuters.com/article/qant...-idUSL4N1WD0TH

Ascend Charlie 27th Sep 2018 06:23

Should be some interesting issues with radio frequencies and traffic separation from Toowoomba. The latest VTC doesn't show an ILS at Oakey any more? And Brymaroo NDB gone? I've been out of aviation for a while....

Going Nowhere 27th Sep 2018 07:04

ILS is still there but Brymaroo is gone.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8f8d8ea737.png

Popgun 27th Sep 2018 22:19

A list as long as your arm!
 
Here's a link to the full interview that Elysse Morgan from ABC program 'The Business' did with AJ yesterday at Wellcamp Airport.

The Business - ABC News

Pilot shortage to drive pilot salaries higher? Not at QF according to AJ. This won't come as a surprise to most but here is some direct insight.

AJ: "...we've got a list as long as your arm."
Elysse: "So no pay rises for Qantas pilots then?"
AJ: "Qantas pilots are really well paid! You know an A380 Captain gets paid around $400,000 a year! A starting pilot at QantasLink gets paid $80,000 a year. I think they're good salaries and a lot of people out there, a lot of your viewers, would love to have one of those jobs."

PG

Kowolski 27th Sep 2018 22:36


Originally Posted by airspace alpha (Post 10259436)
And the contract for training provider goes to L3 Aviation (UK) who have a base in Hamilton NZ. The question then arises as to how they will obtain an Australian AOC, what aircraft they will acquire and most importantly where are they going to get the instructors from?

where did you hear about L3 being the provider?

Popgun 27th Sep 2018 22:43


Originally Posted by Kowolski (Post 10260270)

where did you hear about L3 being the provider?

Here: The Business - ABC News

Jump to 2'50". Straight from AJ's mouth.

PG

Keg 28th Sep 2018 00:01


Originally Posted by Kowolski (Post 10260270)


where did you hear about L3 being the provider?

It’s also in Qantas’ press release available here.

morno 28th Sep 2018 01:53


Originally Posted by Popgun (Post 10260266)
AJ: "...we've got a list as long as your arm."
Elysse: "So no pay rises for Qantas pilots then?"
AJ: "Qantas pilots are really well paid! You know an A380 Captain gets paid around $400,000 a year! A starting pilot at QantasLink gets paid $80,000 a year. I think they're good salaries and a lot of people out there, a lot of your viewers, would love to have one of those jobs."

So he obviously has no interest in attracting the BEST? May be getting them at the moment, but that’s only because of years of no recruitment and a large pool of pilots who want to work for QF in that time.

But once that pool has dried up.....?

Rated De 28th Sep 2018 03:13


Originally Posted by morno (Post 10260369)


So he obviously has no interest in attracting the BEST? May be getting them at the moment, but that’s only because of years of no recruitment and a large pool of pilots who want to work for QF in that time.

But once that pool has dried up.....?


Given it is contract season for both lists of pilots in Qantas mainline, Mr Joyce won't let an opportunity pass to soften them up a bit more. If the pilots, through their collective assocations don't lever a generational shortage to improve their conditions, one may be entitled to ask why not?

Whether the 'list' of interest includes fourteen year old school kids 'with aspirations' was not disclosed. The reality the list' may be nowhere as strong as little Napoleon would want people to believe.

Flyboy1987 28th Sep 2018 04:05

Of the 18000 that have an expression of interest, 16% are female.

Will be interesting to see what percentage of the first intake will be female...

”Addressing the gendar imbalance is the key to meeting market demand for pilots”

With approx 15120 of the 18000 applicants being male, I beg to differ.

Jeps 28th Sep 2018 04:38

This EOI number is akin to “the fish I caught was this biiigggg”. It grows every time it’s quoted. Ultimately all it is is an email address typed into a box with the submit button hit, close to worthless.

triadic 18th Oct 2018 08:46

Yes, the instructors will be an issue - where will they come from (other than retirement?)

But the more interesting question, is where will the Engineers come from to maintain the 40 aircraft they have planned?????

Capt Fathom 18th Oct 2018 10:13


where will the Engineers come from to maintain the 40 aircraft they have planned
457 Visas ?


cogwheel 20th Oct 2018 07:07

And all the imported LAME’s will have their CASA tickets by next July?

Stationair8 21st Oct 2018 08:17

Queensland and Near Toowoomba Air Services as qouted in the Courier Mail last week.

TTY 30th Oct 2018 22:52

Qantas out Virgin in at Tamworth, Announced at Tamworth a few minutes ago.(https://www.northerndailyleader.com....mworth/?cs=12)

LeadSled 30th Oct 2018 23:44


Originally Posted by morno (Post 10260369)
But once that pool has dried up.....?

Folks,
Given Qantas' acute pilot recruiting and retention problem right now, it suggests to me that the pool of suitable pilots has already dried up.
Otherwise, among other things, Qantas would not be supporting importing pilots on whatever a 457 visa is now called.
"Other things" including service cancellations and severe crimps on operational planning.
Tootle pip!!

Rated De 31st Oct 2018 02:44


Originally Posted by LeadSled (Post 10297315)
Folks,
Given Qantas' acute pilot recruiting and retention problem right now, it suggests to me that the pool of suitable pilots has already dried up.
Otherwise, among other things, Qantas would not be supporting importing pilots on whatever a 457 visa is now called.
"Other things" including service cancellations and severe crimps on operational planning.
Tootle pip!!

Naturally. QF have had ample supply for decades. Around that now erroneous assumption has been framed a whole infrastructure of adversarial IR.
Think of the following as a continuance of the same game:
  • Network Aviation desperately trying to lure foreign pilots with big rumoured sign on and retention bonuses (all designed to provide an illusion of abundant supply)
  • A 'stream lead' former AIPA president actively involved in pilot supply.
  • Expanded 'skill shortage' visa categories including directly into Qantas being lobbied.
  • Pilot training colleges (were the financial burden is evenly split between the applicant and the taxpayer)
  • Open and delayed contractual 'negotiations'
  • Rumours circulating of another 'cull' of staff. Where form this time Little Napoleon?

All of that is a recognition that QF are acutely aware of the impending shortage. They will do everything in their power to ensure the deck is stacked the way the have enjoyed it. With a hasty order for A320 NEO now having to be absorbed in an over-scale demand elastic JQ, the existing A320 have to go somewhere!
Sadly in demographics is destiny and all of their effort is pointless. Does not mean they will change until the cancellation rate is noticed at board level and questions are asked. Usually this will follow a 'material change' being disclosed under ASX listing rules.

sharv999 27th Dec 2018 09:56

So where will QF find all of the instructors needed to train their 500+ pilots per year, let alone VA's ...?

mates rates 28th Dec 2018 03:21

Former flight instructors from within their own ranks.There are always pilots prepared to sacrifice for the company to climb the greasy pole.

Going Nowhere 28th Dec 2018 09:33

QF don't have to find any.

That's a problem for L3 in Wellcamp, and whoever gets the gig to run #2 (Bendigo) :E

crosscutter 14th Mar 2019 03:08

I’ve read the headline that QF is no longer partnering with L3....or vice versa.

anyone know more?

is this another redQ? Another over promise and under deliver example? It’s gone pretty quiet of late


Rated De 14th Mar 2019 06:02


Originally Posted by crosscutter (Post 10417704)
I’ve read the headline that QF is no longer partnering with L3....or vice versa.

anyone know more?

is this another redQ? Another over promise and under deliver example? It’s gone pretty quiet of late


Didn't Little Napoleon boast it would be operating mid-2019?

Red Q, JQ HK, a game changing alliance?


Capt Fathom 14th Mar 2019 10:25

The whole thing has gone very quiet!

Rated De 14th Mar 2019 10:27


Originally Posted by Capt Fathom (Post 10418055)
The whole thing has gone very quiet!

Might be time for a 'terminal decline' with strained faces and accompanying puff pieces! It is after all 'contract season'

TWOTBAGS 15th Mar 2019 05:04

The scuttlebutt is along the lines of ……
  • Impossible timelines
  • unable to secure instructors
  • Wagners not prepared to foot the bill for the QF largesse
  • Inept decisions makers
  • L3 scratching their head/nuts..... gone home because its all too hard.
For something due to start in 2019..... its gone very very quiet

Rated De 15th Mar 2019 07:36


Originally Posted by TWOTBAGS (Post 10419105)
The scuttlebutt is along the lines of ……
  • Impossible timelines
  • unable to secure instructors
  • Wagners not prepared to foot the bill for the QF largesse
  • Inept decisions makers
  • L3 scratching their head/nuts..... gone home because its all too hard.
For something due to start in 2019..... its gone very very quiet

Anyone who understood the flawed bid to start up JQ Hong Kong knows it failed at the first hurdle.
Qantas did not do any diligence in Hong Kong, Little Napoleon made a series of megaphone announcements alongside with Uncle Fester (Bruce Buchanan).
From the bid's structure any research was post announcement, poorly considered.
The ruling rejecting their bid was axiomatic from day one: They never were correctly incorporated, nor had their Principal Place of Business in Hong Kong.


https://www.scmp.com/business/compan...cence-rejected

Rather like the screams for taxpayer assistance in December 2013 that disappeared six weeks later, the hysterics of Little Napoleon were to be subject to scrutiny, Qantas would have to demonstrate to a financially astute audience that they actually were disadvantaged. They were not prepared to do this, had nothing to support their statement, so they quietly backed away.

Red Q was the same; thought bubble in search of a strategy. It was opposed by localised resistance. Megaphone diplomacy, poor strategy and worse execution.

See the pattern?

This announcement appears to be a similar pattern.
A thought bubble, no research, poor strategy and shockingly executed.
It will be pushed with weasel words into the future.

The good news though is that the announcement shows pilots that Qantas are sufficiently concerned about pilot supply to acknowledge it.

gordonfvckingramsay 15th Mar 2019 08:46

It was a vain attempt to make pilots think they are an easy to produce commodity timed to coincide with contract negotiation. The shortage we were never going to have us happening.

Rated De 15th Mar 2019 09:47


Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay (Post 10419216)
It was a vain attempt to make pilots think they are an easy to produce commodity timed to coincide with contract negotiation. The shortage we were never going to have us happening.

When all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

Quite probably the last entity to feel the shortage will be Qantas 'mainline' itself.
Rest assured they know all about it here in Europe. The subsidiaries would be the likely benefactor of the 'college product' which wasn't really what the glossy brochure indicated...

poteroo 17th Mar 2019 07:39

I can't agree that instructor availability need be a problem. Plenty of G1s about who are under-employed or semi-retired. Pay us what we're really worth, (well above award!), as experienced Grade 1's with all the training approvals, and there would be dozens who'd re-locate to Toowoomba or Bendigo. But that probably is beyond the horizon of the bean counters on the QF flying school project.
happy days,

Rated De 17th Mar 2019 08:28


Originally Posted by poteroo (Post 10421200)
I can't agree that instructor availability need be a problem. Plenty of G1s about who are under-employed or semi-retired. Pay us what we're really worth, (well above award!), as experienced Grade 1's with all the training approvals, and there would be dozens who'd re-locate to Toowoomba or Bendigo. But that probably is beyond the horizon of the bean counters on the QF flying school project.
happy days,

A market solution to a market shortage.
Precisely why they will not do it.

Recognising the shortage (albeit late) Little Napoleon and the herds of IR/HR are desperate to prove that there is no shortage.
The airline recruiting template was predicated on unlimited supply of qualified applicants, this paradigm existed for the last decades.
This 'school' is all about securing further unlimited supply of pilots.
The sweet irony is that the very thing they are fighting against (increasing terms and conditions, to induce more supply) demonstrates that the shortage is real!

A320 Flyer 22nd Mar 2019 00:19

“Four months before the first *Qantas pilot academy is due to open at Toowoomba’s Wellcamp Airport, the training provider has pulled out of the project and building designs are still to be finalised and lodged with the local council.

The US-based L3 Commercial Training Solutions confirmed the split with Qantas, but would not divulge the reason.

A statement provided by L3 Commercial Training Solutions said “we have been unable to reach an agreement to move the project forward at this time, however, we wish Qantas all the best in their next steps to open a world-class facility”.

Under the original contract, L3 Commercial Training was expected to provide trainers and about 40 single and twin-engine aircraft to the academy, with a view to training 100 pilots in the first year and up to 250 in subsequent years.

Qantas is expected to announce a new training provider in coming weeks and said the academy remained on track for a mid-year opening.

Wellcamp Airport was announced the winner of a national competition for the training academy last year, due to the owners’ ability to deliver the facilities by July.

Toowoomba’s Wagner family famously built the airport in just 19 months, and is believed to have stumped up considerable funds for the $35 million project, along with the Queensland government.

This week, John Wagner said the academy was progressing to plan but he declined to comment on the question over the training provider.

The executive manager of the Qantas Group Pilot Academy Wes Nobelius said it had been “a busy couple of months for the academy team with detailed design work under way”.

Designs for all of the facilities including hangars, classroom and accommodation were expected to be lodged with Toowoomba *Regional Council in coming weeks.

But student accommodation would not be completed before the academy opened.

“Naturally it takes time to have facilities designed, approved and built so to make sure we can start training as soon as possible, we’re looking at temporary accommodation for the first intake of students mid-year,” Mr Nobelius said

Qantas is understood to have had strong interest from budding pilots and a scholarship program was being developed to help some students achieve their dream.

The airline is yet to announce the location of a second pilot training academy, with eight regional centres in the running including Bendigo, Launceston, Wagga Wagga, Busselton, Alice Springs, Mackay and Dubbo.

Tamworth was scratched from the race after announcing a deal with Virgin Australia. The rival carrier is yet to announce a training partner but is believed to be looking at several options including the Hainan Airlines, Southern Cross University and CAE.”

On eyre 22nd Mar 2019 02:02

Meanwhile FTA (Flight Training Adelaide) who are hemmed in at Parafield have “soft started” a satellite training facility at Port Lincoln with four aircraft and completed ab initio training of reportedly Cebu Air students and now training reportedly Indigo students. The relatively uncluttered airspace on lower Eyre Peninsula is proving beneficial for FTA but local rec flyers are getting annoyed by the extra traffic particularly as FTA have a Development Application lodged for a multimillion dollar facility at Port Lincoln airport with up to 22 aircraft, an additional 65000 movements a year and decommissioning of an essential gravel runway. The natives are getting really restless particularly as the District Council of Lower Eyre Peninsula have failed to consult widely with the broader community of ratepayers.


crosscutter 22nd Mar 2019 04:01

QF and the Wagners all wanted too bigger slice of the profit pie for providing the fancy new facilities and student pool.

L3 told Qantas that instructors wouldn’t want to pay for the privilege of training future QF pilots leaving Alan dumbfounded.
“it really is unbelievable that instructors expect to be paid to fly these wonderful new machines,” said Alan.

The Qantas Flight Training Group executive were seen left scratching their nuts in a familiar teapot stance as L3 walked away leaving Qantas to wonder what providers are left that haven’t already been consumed by overseas airline academies.

Alan was heard screaming “you’ll be back!” as L3 were seen taking off on their private jet to establish another training facility this time in Portugal for 500 cadets a year.


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