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-   -   Perth to London (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/606917-perth-london.html)

PlasticFantastic 15th Jan 2019 19:51


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10361198)
And at the MEL end?

Is MEL slot-constrained?

HOBAY 3 15th Jan 2019 19:52


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10361198)
And at the MEL end?

There's already a significant component AVV-SYD, which is counted in the BITRE figures for Melbourne-Sydney.

VH DSJ 15th Jan 2019 23:51


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10361198)
And at the MEL end?

Aren't they building a parallel east-west runway at YMML? When is that planned to be finished?

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 16th Jan 2019 04:46


Is MEL slot-constrained?
As far as I know, MEL does not have a slot system for Domestic Ops.
Thus, a 2018 Productivity Commission report found that:

Capacity on the current crossing runway system is being exceeded today, with scheduled flight cancellations and delays becoming increasingly frequent, and recovery from delays becoming more difficult to achieve.

Scooter Rassmussin 16th Jan 2019 23:45

Government should build all the new runways and take a minimum of 51% ownership of each airport,
the tax payer deserves their Airports to be efficient and should also share in the obscene profits .

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 17th Jan 2019 21:06

Nice one Comrade!

Governments can barely build roads these days.

dragon man 18th Jan 2019 00:29


Originally Posted by Scooter Rassmussin (Post 10362689)
Government should build all the new runways and take a minimum of 51% ownership of each airport,
the tax payer deserves their Airports to be efficient and should also share in the obscene profits .

Maybe you are to young to remember but we the people used to earn the airports until the Howard government sold them and then we the people got screwed as is usually the case when governments sell tax payer assets.

morno 18th Jan 2019 01:05

Going Boeing,
Lots of accusations there about JQ that without proof are just a load of crap.

Icarus2001 18th Jan 2019 01:06

You may need to do a little reading about which party decided to lease the FAC airports.

Mk 1 18th Jan 2019 01:29


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10363539)
Nice one Comrade!

The most perfect business you can own is a monopoly as you control price and supply and can vary either. To add the cherry to the top of this sundae, make it in an industry with high barriers to entry (massive costs) and you can sit there farming your profits as others cannot get into the business to steal your thunder. I am a capitalist at heart, but blind freddy should have known that selling airports, power companies etc was one of the worst decisions made.

engine out 18th Jan 2019 02:23

Discussions of Syd-Mel and airport ownership. Do I detect a complete thread drift? I am sure there is another thread on Qantas fleet requirements. Can we get back to what a disaster this route is, with it’s poor passenger numbers and huge amounts of diversions/cancellations, or did everybody get bored when it turned out Qantas may have got something almost right for a change.

Comoman 18th Jan 2019 05:56

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation...ng-b881077589z

QF9 cancelled - passengers stuck.

130herc 18th Jan 2019 06:19


In October, Qantas said the flight was operating with a capacity of 92 per cent, on average, and 94 per cent in premium classes. The capacity is the highest of any of the airline’s international routes.

Probably because its their smallest long-haul plane.
Are these numbers accurate anyway?

PPRuNeUser0198 18th Jan 2019 08:33

Load factor performance on a new route can be misleading depending on how many sale fares were released to stimulate the new route, and what periods of travel these fares existed for. If these numbers exclude deeply discounted fares, and they're pricing at a premium (due to the benefit of this route), then this is a good result considering there are a few options ex Perth to London, be it an extra stop for all pax excluding Perth pax.

It would be better to see the rASK performance on this market.

PlasticFantastic 18th Jan 2019 11:08


Originally Posted by T-Vasis (Post 10363825)
Load factor performance on a new route can be misleading depending on how many sale fares were released to stimulate the new route, and what periods of travel these fares existed for. If these numbers exclude deeply discounted fares, and they're pricing at a premium (due to the benefit of this route), then this is a good result considering there are a few options ex Perth to London, be it an extra stop for all pax excluding Perth pax.

It would be better to see the rASK performance on this market.

That is ordinarily true, but when was the last time you saw a sale fare on PER-LHR? Every time I've checked, there is a serious premium in all classes for this route. Qantas is on the public record that it is their single most profitable route, and performing well ahead of expectations. Unless you think they are blatantly lying (which would likely be a criminal offence, given it would be market-sensitive information), in this case I would say it is fairly safe to say that this route has excellent RASK and profitability.

Asturias56 18th Jan 2019 15:26


Originally Posted by Comoman (Post 10363731)

Risk you take on any flight that only has a single flight a day - I've been impressed by how FEW problems they've had TBH

V-Jet 18th Jan 2019 19:02

One question that almost can’t be answered here with any accuracy, is how many east coast FF are ‘forced’ to use points to get to Europe via PER. It suits Qf to make those seats bought with points to be as expensive as possible.

I think PER-LHR is a fantastic service, but as an additional service to Europe, not a seat reducing replacement...

PPRuNeUser0198 18th Jan 2019 22:33


That is ordinarily true, but when was the last time you saw a sale fare on PER-LHR? Every time I've checked, there is a serious premium in all classes for this route. Qantas is on the public record that it is their single most profitable route, and performing well ahead of expectations. Unless you think they are blatantly lying (which would likely be a criminal offence, given it would be market-sensitive information), in this case I would say it is fairly safe to say that this route has excellent RASK and profitability.
If that is the case re fare picing then this is a great outcome for Qantas (I have not done any fare comparisons). The other part to it is also that people will try it to see if it is a better way to travel over current routings, so I think there would be a percetange of RPK's that simply wanted to get to London faster which is really a misnomer at the end of the day - it is still one stop to London for the majority (only PER consumers benefiting) - it just happens to be in Australia. End of the day - some will love it and some will loath it. For me - I could not stand sitting onboard for that long. I've done DFW twice - once in J and once in P - and I still hated it. I don't know how others can do it in Y. I just could not do that long. But that is me.

We'll see how it continues over the coming cycles.

dragon man 19th Jan 2019 02:25

Have to apologise, it’s not Perth to Paris but a second Perth to London service. Mid year start I believe.

On eyre 19th Jan 2019 04:05

DM - do QF have a third LHR slot assuming QF1/2 is continuing ?

Beer Baron 19th Jan 2019 04:09


it is still one stop to London for the majority
Nope, the majority of passengers are to/from Perth. The stats show approximately 70% of available seats are filled by passengers flying to/from PER. So for most of the customers it is very much non-stop.

SandyPalms 19th Jan 2019 04:12

QF have 4 slot pairs at LHR. I think at one point there were 5 but I’m not sure if this is still the case.

dragon man 19th Jan 2019 04:41


Originally Posted by SandyPalms (Post 10364616)
QF have 4 slot pairs at LHR. I think at one point there were 5 but I’m not sure if this is still the case.

4 slots is correct, two are leased to BA. Is it an extra service or a replacement for QF 1/2 , I don’t know.

Transition Layer 19th Jan 2019 12:09

Second service to London from Perth? How boring and predictable.

Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin...anywhere else would have been better!

SandyPalms 19th Jan 2019 12:30

If that is true, I would guess the agreement (as has been alluded to) with Perth airports is for services to LHR, AKL and SIN, so they can operate as many as they like to those ports. A way of getting around Perth airport??

Asturias56 19th Jan 2019 13:27


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10364906)
Second service to London from Perth? How boring and predictable.

Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin...anywhere else would have been better!

Because you don't get the point to point demand you get on UK-Australia anywhere else on the Qantas Network..... friends of mine in the UK always say they used to get far cheaper Australia bound tickets on QF (especially in PE and Business) if they flew to Amsterdam or Paris - now of course QF, like BA, have cut most of those other routes

Even Emirates is far cheaper out of Paris to Australia than out of London -

PlasticFantastic 19th Jan 2019 21:31


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10364906)
Second service to London from Perth? How boring and predictable.

Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin...anywhere else would have been better!

If there is anything to the rumours that QF will retire two of its A380s at their D-check (presumably OQA and OQB, since they are MSN 14 and 15 - I think I recall that Airbus had fixed it's production issues by about MSN 20?), then this could also reflect QF planning for ways in which it could adjust it's schedule to remove two A380s worth of flying. Replace QF1/2 SYD-SIN-LHR with a B787 SYD-PER-LHR. And perhaps put another A330 on SYD-SIN to handle regional traffic.

Pure speculation, building on others' rumours.

Slezy9 24th Jan 2019 04:56

Qantas' Perth to London direct flight has been grounded at the 11th hour for the second time this month, with passengers asked to disembark after sitting on the plane for two hours.

The 17-hour flight, which departs Perth once a day, was scheduled to take off at 7.40pm on Wednesday evening.

WA member for Moore, Shane Love, who was booked on the flight, tweeted the journey was delayed because the crew was not provided with a flight plan.

"The captain has said he will not be able to fly in the 20 hours allowed and cancelled the flight!" he said.
Radio 6PR caller, Andy, said his wife, who was travelling back to Britain for urgent family reasons, had been caught up in the delay.

"They sat on the plane for two hours due to delays before they were told they would have to disembark," he said.

"They were given a taxi voucher to Metro Hotel.

"My wife is frustrated, she thought she'd be halfway to England by this morning."

A Qantas letter provided to passengers said the delay was due to a technical issue impacting the airline's ability to provide a flight plan.

"Despite the best efforts of staff, our technical crew have run out of allowable working hours under CASA regulations and they cannot operate this evening," it read.

"You'll now be leaving Perth tomorrow morning."

Andy said his wife had been rescheduled on a later direct flight departing at 11.15am on Thursday.

A Qantas spokeswoman said, despite the crew's best efforts, the delay in providing the flight plan - which was due to a technical issue not related to the aircraft - had a knock-on effect which meant the crew would exceed their allowable working hours.

"Passengers were provided with overnight accommodation, transport and meal vouchers," she said.

"There is no impact to today's regular scheduled Perth to London flight."

The delayed service comes a week after engineering issues cancelled the service on January 17 with passengers transferred to other flights within 24 hours.

The direct flight, which travels 14,498 kilometres, has been operating since March 2018 using the 787-9 Dreamliner.

Earlier in the week, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce told Radio 6PR the new direct service to London had been a success for the airline and had generated $100 million in free publicity for WA.



https://www.smh.com.au/national/west...24-p50tcq.html

Capt_CheeseDick 24th Jan 2019 08:00

Yes, it departed PH about that time today.
Approx 45 pax only onboard as others elected to go with EK & QR last night... ouch!

Icarus2001 24th Jan 2019 09:36


and had generated $100 million in free publicity for WA.
https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...12-gt97yx.html

So that FREE publicity cost $14 million. What a nice round number $100 million is. It was probably calculated by the same Q accountant that calculates the Jetstar profits.

What a game changer.

normanton 24th Jan 2019 14:49

Sounds like a weird explanation to me.

Do they not have reserve crew they could call out?

SeenItAll 24th Jan 2019 17:36


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10364906)
Second service to London from Perth? How boring and predictable.

Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin...anywhere else would have been better!

I would guess that the problem is that Qantas is a Oneworld carrier, and that the most logical second destination would be a Oneworld hub in Europe that is a bit closer to PER than is LHR. This would allow the collection of PAX from a large number of origination/termination points -- and make the flying range a little less extreme than to LHR. But the only OW hub satisfying the second requirement is HEL -- which is not a terribly convenient gathering point for the bulk of EU traffic. So LHR is likely to be the choice for any second service.

*Lancer* 24th Jan 2019 21:35


Originally Posted by SeenItAll (Post 10369713)
I would guess that the problem is that Qantas is a Oneworld carrier, and that the most logical second destination would be a Oneworld hub in Europe that is a bit closer to PER than is LHR. This would allow the collection of PAX from a large number of origination/termination points -- and make the flying range a little less extreme than to LHR. But the only OW hub satisfying the second requirement is HEL -- which is not a terribly convenient gathering point for the bulk of EU traffic. So LHR is likely to be the choice for any second service.

Moscow could be fun :ok:

Qanchor 25th Jan 2019 00:08


.......delayed because the crew was not provided with a flight plan.

Sounds like a weird explanation to me.
I’m tipping on that particular day the fuel tanks weren’t big enough

Capt Fathom 25th Jan 2019 01:07


Originally Posted by Qanchor (Post 10370028)

I’m tipping on that particular day the fuel tanks weren’t big enough

If that was the case they'd reduce the payload, not cancel the flight!

knobbycobby 25th Jan 2019 01:19

London and Gatwick both forecast below Cat 1 visibility. Doubt they could carry the fuel.
Large headwinds so I’d guess they couldn’t get the duty below 20 hours either.
Gamechanging stuff.

cessnapete 25th Jan 2019 01:31


Originally Posted by knobbycobby (Post 10370050)
London and Gatwick both forecast below Cat 1 visibility. Doubt they could carry the fuel.
Large headwinds so I’d guess they couldn’t get the duty below 20 hours either.
Gamechanging stuff.

Aren’t QF 787 Cat IIIC. No cloud base,100m vis as most LHR Operators?

CurtainTwitcher 25th Jan 2019 01:36


Originally Posted by cessnapete (Post 10370055)

Aren’t QF 787 Cat IIIC. No cloud base,100m vis as most LHR Operators?

Do those operators flight plan arrive at LHR with just above fixed reserves in those conditions? If so and they divert, can the crew continue do another sector to land at LHR?

Ken Borough 25th Jan 2019 01:55

Surely someone must know the truth! Were any other services canx or delayed as a result if not having a FPL?


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