An important MSG to my fellow JETCONNECT pilots.
 

Firstly, I would like to thank the JC Council for their hard work and dedication to this CEA and their fellow NZ ALPA members. Nothing in this letter is directed at the Council or the effort they have put into reaching this Draft agreement.

However, I don’t believe that now is the time for JC pilots to sign a CEA, and I’m left wondering why NZ ALPA think we should.

Jetconnect Pilot operations are about to undergo a massive change, the exact nature of which is yet to be determined, as I understand that the Australian & International Pilot Association (AIPA) have stated they are against the restructuring as it has been proposed.

Because of this uncertainty, before the exact nature of operational changes have come to light, I don’t think there should be any rush to sign a CEA. Locking into a CEA means that Jetconnect pilots will be in a weak industrial position. The option of industrial action will not be available if we do not agree with the future changes to the organisation imposed by the Company.

For this reason, I cannot support this CEA and urge my fellow Jetconnect Pilots to think about the ramifications of prematurely signing.

In addition to this, I also believe this CEA is not worthy of endorsement.

This CEA is a reflection of Jetconnect pilots continually undervaluing themselves, the Airline they represent and the premium service/product they provide, particularly when the proposed changes bring us so close into the fold of Mainline Qantas for all intents and purposes except for pay and conditions.
This isn’t a matter of “remaining competitive on the Tasman” but rather a systematic and intentional degrading of pilot conditions by Qantas management. The responsibility falls upon us to protect this industry for both ourselves and for future pilots.

My reasons for not supporting this CEA are as follows:

Proposed dates of CEA
Jetconnect’s last CEA covered a period of 3 years over the dates of 18th April 2013 until the 17th April 2016. It would make sense that the following CEA covered a period of 3 years over the dates 18th April 2016 until 17th April 2019. But the draft CEA doesn’t end until April 2020. So instead of bargaining for better conditions in 2019, the Pilot group will be penalised a year to do so, and why? Because the Company didn’t act in good faith, they didn’t resolve the negotiations in a timely fashion? If we sign this CEA we are once again rewarding the Company for mistreating the CEA process and their pilot group.

3.2 Training Bond
3.2.2 An actual figure needs to be specified for the Training bond or transparency of the actual costs involved made available to the Pilot. This will prevent the Company from over bonding Pilots in a means to retain them through financial hardship.


4.4 Redundancy
4.4.10 Company notice period to the Pilot needs to be increased to 3 months, on par to the requirement changes for Pilots to give the Company 3 months’ notice in clause 3.3.1.

7 Air Data Recorders
7.2 (b) Education
(c) Training
These clauses either need to be defined or removed, as they’re an avenue for punitive action against a pilot or pilots and can lead to an environment of attempted fuel savings over safety.

9.4.3 Contactability
A clause added that the Company cannot attempt to relay a message to a pilot in a no contact period through any means, including other pilots or the person’s Next of Kin.

11 Remuneration
Between the dates of 26th October 2016 (the date the last pay rise should coincide with) until the end of this proposed CEA of 26th April 2020, the Pilot group will receive a 5% increase to wages, equivalent to 1.4% annually. The 18 month pay freeze should not have taken away an entitlement to a 2.5% pay rise during this time, simply delayed its introduction until after the pay freeze. This is shown in the Australian Services Union’s Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (EBA), which will see pay rises of 7.5% introduced between 2018 and mid-2020 as a result of undertaking the pay freeze and which covers a period from between July 2016 to July 2020.

11.2 Annual Base Pay
We are told that we have to remain competitive across the Tasman and that we need to remain on “local conditions”. In comparison to Jetstar and Virgin, we are still far below the industry standard and local conditions. This isn’t a matter of remaining competitive but the Company eroding conditions to the greatest extent they can.

As an example, current FO wages will be compared;

VANZ. Jetstar Jetconnect
L1. 103950. 99425. 97454
L2. 112217. XXXXXX 108072
L2. 120606. 107625 110531

VANZ don’t get flying credit for any ground training duties and most likely explains the level of their base pay, I’m unsure if they are paid any company bonuses.

Jetstar get flying credits for ground training duties and they get paid incentive company bonuses. Although Jetstar’s base pay looks lower, their ability to earn more is increased.

Jetconnect don’t get flying credits for ground training duties and don’t get paid company bonuses like Jetstar.

Entry First Officers
An introduction of an ‘Entry First Officer’ wage is setting a new and lower precedent in the industry. Jetstar have a Junior First Officer wage for Cadets who have completed a Cadetship and lack the experience to hold an ATPL.

Training Salary
11.2.5.1 For pilots not employed as Entry FOs, the training wage will cost these pilots an additional $6800 in lost wages over a 3-month period. If the company is unable to retain pilots, the company should bear the cost of replacing them. New pilots will be bonded for 3 years, to a currently unspecified amount that is supposed to cover training costs, therefore they should be paid as full pilots from day one of joining.

11.3 Incentive Flight Pay
Paxing Credits
50% Paxing credit is an industry standard and a non-negotiable for me. (QF long haul receive 100%). Variations to rosters caused by this change can be mitigated through shift swaps, bidding or preferences. Once the CEA is signed we can’t get these credits and may never be able to bargain for their introduction again.

Credits for Ground duties
An introduction for credits during ground courses, simulators and online courses, in line with the Jetstar CEA or dare I suggest QF mainline? Or, an increase to overall salary in line with Virgin NZ.

13.3 Meal and Breaks
13.3.1.1 “Reasonable cost” needs to be defined to protect employees against possible punitive action in regards to reimbursement.

13.3.2.3 After the Company admitted that Pilots were not receiving this entitlement, they apparently allocated an extra $350,000 towards the CEA. This roughly equates to $1458 per pilot annually in added benefits to the CEA. Jetstar, with their far superior benefits also receive an annual payment of $3,500 for Captains and $2,000 for First Officers in lieu of meal breaks. To date, I have not heard any discussion about backpay for entitlements not received.

14.4 Reminbursing Allowances
14.4 Communication Allowance
Slight increase to accurately reflect what members pay to maintain a constant method of contact with the Company.

16.2 Loss of Licence
16.2.1.1 Without the $1200 Company input and change to 1% of income, loss of licence cover through the MBF or private insurance will cost FOs more money, since the highest paid FO in this CEA will be entitled to only $1161. This effectively forces an FO onto the new company scheme, of which we have not seen any details about.

This change is in line with Jetstar entitlements but without comparing the Companies own schemes, since this information is currently unavailable. Virgin Pilots receive the higher of $2665 or 1.5% of income.

16.2.1.3 Jetconnect Licence Insurance Scheme
The terms and conditions of this scheme need to be made available to members, we may be unknowingly subjecting members to risk if this scheme does not favour the employee. Something that cannot be decided until the details are made public.

Adherence of the Current Heads of Agreement
Clause 2.2 in the current HoA states that road transport be:
Safe- seat belts for every passenger seat, no large crew bags in the passenger compartment unless they are properly restrained, no vehicle defects, driven within the law.

Despite the Park’n’Ride not fulfilling these requirements, the Union or Company have done nothing to enforce this clause which is repeated in the new HoA. Without adherence to a single clause, renders the rest of the HoA worthless.

Seniority Number
A seniority number be granted within Mainline Qantas, in line with Virgin NZ’s CEA. AIPA has stated that they would be happy for Jetconnect Pilots go to the bottom of the seniority list and be base frozen for a selected amount of time, as this would have minimal effect on current progression within Mainline.




All these points were found in the 45-60min period I looked over the CEA, so I am sure there are points I have missed out on.



Please encourage other JC pilots to read this, not agreeing is fine, ignorance isn't.

Nicely worded. Now is the time for you guys to improve your T&C's.

NZALPA think we should sign it up because they are IR experts. This is the same quality union that successfully prevented pilots going on the skill shortages list. They know what they are doing.

If ALPA say yes I would trust them, I don't believe staying strong is saying no. Being strong might be getting this improved deal across the line to give everyone certainty before Qantas short haul goes up for bargaining in mid 2018 . The points you raise are for the most part quite minor and quite frankly the captains at jetconnect are fearing for their jobs. Becoming a AIPA pawn is a dangerous prospect.

How would Jetconnect pilots become AIPA pawns if they don’t lock themselves into an agreement? The ideal solution is to have Jetconnect pilots integrated into mainline with some sort of Integration agreement. Not sure how that could be a bad thing for anybody. NZALPA of course would then lose 120 sets of contributions, which may or may not be the motivation behind their support of this agreement.

All great points. It is important for Jetconnect to improve conditions and not let the puppet masters in Mascot win. On a side bar (same in most awards I’ve seen) why do Captains need more in meal allowances/DTA than FO’s, do they eat more? Anyway I hope the rest of the JC pilots also feel the same way.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the different meal rates between FO and CA.

Cause el capo is meant to buy ya coffee and a beer

NZ Employment law is changing early in the new year in favour of employees. One of the changes removes a companies ability to walk away from/stall the bargaining process.
I haven’t checked that info myself but was told that by someone who is normally correct about these things. He seemed to think that other changes were possible surrounding rest breaks.
Motivation?

Probably to do with the Australian Tax Office and their maximum allowance for tax free meal reimbursements without needing receipts. These allowances are tied to income.

Nah thats just for claiming. The allowance paid is just what's negotiated

We are paid TA aligned with our salary in AsA.

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/docu.../NAT/ATO/00001

Yes that's correct, however some companies simplify things by paying you the maximum amount allowed by the ATO. This may result in higher meal allowances paid to the pilots with the higher salaries.

It was a general question not specific to Jetconnect. To clarify, I was responding to the "same in most awards I've seen" bit.

Another peripheral operator having an agreement rushed through before a major change to the business?

So what part of the new contract protects JetConnect pilot’s jobs? Being the lowest paid norrow body jet operators in NZ?

Is this an admirable trait to negotiate in a contract, being paid less than everyone else so the company doesn’t sack you? But still get no actual guarantee of your job.

Virgin get 4.5hrs credit per ground duty. Why not sign 18mth contract then see how cookie crumbles.

Exactly. What is happening here?

Nothing that I can see. The proposed CEA gives 8 weeks pay.
The comparison would be Jetstar who get 16 weeks.

Look, the true damage for Jetconnect was done at the last contract negotiation. I remember chatting to a Jetconnect pilot/negotiator in 2013ish when both Jetstar and Jetconnect were in CEA negotiations and the Jetstar pilots had just served a notice for industrial action against Jetstar to 'further' their CEA. The Jetconnect guy told me that they were going to accept absolutely minimal improvements as 'now is not the time to ask for money due to Qantas being in such a bad position'. Now you are trying to play catchup, even though Qantas is doing well you are getting the whole 'must be within the pay freeze and overall 3%' line. The CEA that Jetstar NZ landed in 2013 was a massive improvement and lept them way ahead of Jetconnect so this time around they just took the payfreeze and the 3% overall along with winning in the Supreme Court over meal breaks secured an additional payment and ongoing compensation leading Jetstar to edge even further ahead. How you could accept anything less than a group 'low cost' carrier based in the same country is beyond me.

I agree with the OP on most points, except one.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think you are entitled to a mainline seniority number?

Jetstar / Cobham / Network / Qlink pilots don't, so why should you?

If you want a mainline seniority number, go jump through the HR process like all the rest of us had to do.

Was just about to ask the same question as normanton.

Please justify why on earth you think you should have a mainline seniority number? I'm really interested. And somewhat annoyed by such an entitled attitude. But please, go ahead?

I’m by no means advocating that Jetconnect pilots must be giving a seniority number.... however as you mention Qlink Cobham Jetstar Network which of those will shortly be operating under the QF AOC in an offshore base?

I don’t see a sense of entitlement from the OP; more that he/she can see what QF IR is really up to and uniting a pilot group is one of the steps into giving them the middle finger.

One of the other steps is voting no to this sub standard contract.

Minor points summed up are not minor at all. Have you ever heard of death by a thousand cuts?

I haven’t met anyone at Jetconnect fearing for their job unless they’re one the few worried about not passing a CASA medical or a QFA line check.

This kind of attitude is why pilots continue to be out-manoeuvred.

"I didn't get one so why should you?"

It's been done before, and it can be done again, with the agreement of the various parties. To shoot for it in an EBA would be very wise, especially with current pilot shortage in the group, and the bleed of JC pilots to other airlines.

In fact, if I were a JC pilot, I'd be pushing my reps to contact AIPA to organise a coordinated campaign to make that happen. I'm sure AIPA would prefer them to be flying VH jets under the QF AOC under mainline T&C's with a mainline seniority number. I'm sure those guys would too. Delaying the CEA won't affect their job security one iota.

I hear the base meetings for JC were today and yesterday. Does anyone who was there care to share how it went? What was the mood like amongst the group?

Whipsaw and Leverage.

Respectfully - Perhaps you should be asking yourselves (as a group) what you would lose if they were stapled to the bottom of your seniority list ? Then ask yourself why the Qantas group enjoys outsourcing its flying to separate seniority lists on significantly lower terms. Qantas IR have a hundred reasons to like it. Ninety nine percent of those reasons should make you not like it. The remaining one percent is the sting of pride. It absolutely sucks to have anyone given something that you worked very hard for. But in the cold hard light of day, pride is not a good reason to give up that kind of IR leverage.

My humble opinion, having seen both sides of that coin.

The best outcome is for JC pilots and QF mainline pilots is for them to go on the mainline seniority list and be on QF shorthaul terms and conditions. OK I’m hearing you regarding they haven’t gone through the HR shambles to be accepted by Qantas, but hey at the end of the day they are flying passengers who booked Qantas between Australia and New Zealand. Yes I know Cobham and Network do as well, but we have to make a start with the JC pilots. Because the opportunity is there. And if I was in JC right now there would be no way I would vote up any agreement that doesn’t give at least 5% plus per year pay rise. QF are desperately short of crew and they need you! Good luck to all you JC crew regardless of the outcome.

My understanding is that the bargaining team gave secured more then 5% year on year when time is factored in the 'value'. Atleast that's how it was sold at base meetings.

Ohh the Qantas sense of entitlement is coming out again. For gods sake fellas, you’ll lose nothing.

And respectfully right back again - Question asked "what do we have to lose?" The answer is long fought for pay and conditions of employment. If we continue down this track of continual compromise, then as a pilot group we are continuing the race to the bottom. We continue to dilute our worth as an industry.

If you can't see this, then woe betide our industry. Don't mistake my opinion for "pride", I don't work for the red rat anymore. This allows me to view the situation that has been developing for the past 20 years pretty objectively.

Yep, pretty sure that GD said that when he and AJ introduced Jetstar. And it has been a race downhill since then. On that basis I'm sure you will forgive my cynicism.

The race to the bottom requires a segmented and fractured pilot body.
Every step that supports this state continues the race to the bottom.
Every step that creates a bigger, stronger, less fragmented pilot body is a blow to the race to the bottom.
I don’t care if they go on the list or not but if I was a QF pilot I sure would be pushing for it.
balance, I think you have it backwards.
Well, there are a fair few smart guys and girls that think putting them on the bottom of the list is beneficial for QF pilots long term. Woe is me.

Well, a couple things, framer. One - it makes a big fat zero difference to me these days. I'm just an observer now, and a fairly appalled one at that. So, no "woe is me".

The bigger, stronger, less fragmented body you speak of? Yeah, sure. Lets give the Gympie North Ultralight Club QF seniority numbers, shall we?

Your concept of 'bigger, stronger, less fragmented" is an unachievable Nirvana. And THAT is exactly why AJ and Oldmeadow are winning this war, and exactly why the pilot game is in a spiral to the bottom.

You might think I have it backwards, frankly I couldn't care less what you think. I've watched things spiral for the past 20 years, and I can't see things changing anytime soon. Especially with that attitude.

I’ve watched things spiral for the last twenty as well, but I can see things changing mainly because I see an opportunity to be slightly more united as a pilot group than we have been for decades. Tsk tsk what a silly attitude.
PS, although your example of the Gympie North Ultralight club was banal it’s worth considering what would happen if a small move in that direction was made. Would T’s and C’s improve if AIPA had more bargaining power or would they get worse?

Banal the example might have been, but T's and C's cannot improve whilst this happens. It is dilution of the product, pure and simple. Pilots in Australia WILL NEVER form a common entity, it's just not in their nature. Therefore they will be easy prey for the predator.

At least whilst the QF guys were at the "top of the food chain" as it were, there was a standard set, a measuring stick. Now that measuring stick is being filed away, and it is getting smaller by the day. Each time a new company with lesser T's and C's is acquired, each time someone else demands to be included on the QF seniority list, each time a fracture appears, the executives giggle with glee, and give themselves a mouth watering bonus.

And I don't think there is a way to stop it. :\

What a load of :mad:. Ever heard of a Straw man? Go on, have a google :ugh:

I don't have a dog in this race either, but some of the rubbish thrown around in this thread begs addressing.

If JC were to remain on their NZ AOC, with ZK Rego'd Aircraft then there is absolutely no valid argument to give them a QF Seniority number. But that's not whats happening, is it? JC are getting VH tails....

So as a Collective Pilot group, what's the best outcome? No doubt, bringing the JC operation back into Mainline... QANTAS Planes, QANTAS Pilots and all that Jazz. :ok: But it's already been pointed out (possibly in another thread) that the QF 737 operation is in dire need of crew, and could not possibly take over the Tasman.... hrmmm, wonder where they could find some 737 qualified Pilots to do the job? :D

What's that? They haven't jumped through the same HR hoops as other QF Pilots? Well then, how many QF Pilots have gone through the Current recruitment process? Should they all be asked to re-interview for their positions after 30+ years in the Airline because HR didn't even exist back in their day? Give me a break. We all despise the modern day HR process... why give it any validation now?

Give the JC Pilots a QF Sim ride along with a Route check (would be a CASA requirement anyway with the change of AOC) and when they're successful, throw them on the bottom of the QF list.

Honestly, from where I'm sitting, this is the only (and best) opportunity to shift the jobs back into Mainline. It's already been established that QF cannot afford to lose the JC Pilots at this time, so any other scenario which sees JC exist as a separate entity sets a precedent for foreign pilots flying VH, QF tails.

-edit-

What's the lesser evil? Absorbing that company into the fold, or allowing it to exist on it's own, to be used as a bargaining threat every CEA? Freedom was incorporated into Air NZ and now it's nothing more than a bad memory. Sure there's a few hurt feelings and the odd stone got thrown, but that's behind us now. Think big picture, rather than focusing (with spite) on a handful of pilots who might happen to be in the right place at the right time and benefit from a merger.

There is 100K AUD difference in pay between a Jetconnect 737 Captain and a Mainline one.

This gives the Jetconnect pilots massive leverage in current CEA negotiations.

The company of course doesn't want JC pilots to realise this, hence the sudden rush to get a deal done

Jetconnect is an even more powerful industrial wedge against mainline now its integrated

The BS assurances from the company that it won't be used to extract future concessions from the mainline 737 group are laughable. Oldmeadow is deeply involved again and given the massive additional bonuses on offer flight ops management and higher simply wont be able to help themselves.

Qantas iis n the global pilot market as we speak looking for Jetconnect FOs and direct entry Captains. There will be massive expansion of the Jetconnect operation in the next few years - keep in mind that whilst Jetconnect cannot operate domestically in Australia, it can do international services. So SYD-DPS, MEL-DPS and BNE-POM-BNE are there for the taking for you.

My message to the JC pilots is simple - no need to rush signing anything.

For the first time in your history you have bargaining power because you are not only the cheapest B737 pilots in the first world, you are also a powerful industrial weapon to be used against other group pilots.

Don't fall for their bluff this time.

Honestly, you gotta laugh sometimes at people on PPrune. The irony of someone arrogantly telling you you're using the straw man argument, then using the straw man argument themselves! Hilarious!

Mate, I know a bunch of really good pilots that are on the QF hold file right now. They've passed the testing, they've earned the right. Yet a bunch of guys who would gladly undercut their grandmother demand that THEY be given that right instead?

Why give the current HR process validation now? Because it is all we've got. Surely you don't expect they will just open the floodgates and let any Joe in?

I've no idea from where you're sitting, but it doesn't sound like you were / are in mainline, nor is it any of my business. I'd bet vital parts of my anatomy, if you were on the QF hold file you'd be a bit p1ssed.

You tell me to think big picture, and not worry about a handful of pilots from JC? Okies, given that you are prone to lecturing me about things, how about you google the word precedent? Because each handful of pilots that get a seniority number = precedent. It's JC today, Gympie Ultralight Club tomorrow? Where does it end? The tolerance of one creates precedent.

The best outcome? Well, there's no good outcome unless you are a CEO or a HR manager, but to my mind giving the JC guys a QF seniority number is the thin end of the wedge and will realize far worse results.

And my friend, if you think what I say is :mad:, well I just don't care. This has been happening for a long time now, it is still happening, and just because you say :mad:, doesn't detract from the fact that it is happening. Maybe you should google the ostrich "head in the sand" concept too...

Have a nice day! :ok:

Post edited

Where'e my Straw man Balance?

You keep mentioning the Gympie Ultralight Club, so tell me, what's their association to QF? Are they wearing QF uniforms, flying QANTAS branded 737's and about to change AOC's onto the VH register? Didn't think so. JC is a unique operation in the QF group.

You've got mates on the hold file? Congratulations. We've all got mates on a hold file somewhere. Mate of mine sat on the hold file at Air NZ for nearly 7 years. Welcome to Aviation.

Perhaps when your mates finally get a start at QF, they would rejoice in the fact that there's another 50-60 737 Command and FO positions available due to the integration of a group Airline. Because they'll get start with QF regardless of what happens with JC.

This is the short-sightedness I'm referring to. You're so focused on your mates with a "Yes" letter and angst towards JC that you've lost all sight of the bigger picture.

If JC remains a separate entity those jobs are forever lost to mainline Pilots. Worse still, the VH rego opens up more routes for them ex Australia, potentially taking MORE positions away from Mainline (which will hurt your mates careers in mainline).

As for what seat I'm sitting in? Well it's a ZK registered A320 and I'm thankful it's not yellow with Freedomair.com plastered on the side.

-Edit-

Actually Balance, I should ask, what's your desired outcome here? You're clearly opposed to JC getting put on the Mainline seniority list so what's your alternative? Keep them separate? Sack them all?