Brisbane FOG
 

I see YBBN is having fog issues again!
Lots of go-arounds and diversions.
Oh! for a Cat111B capability of ILS, aircraft and crew.
Most Airbus aircraft are Cat111B capable and I have done a few of these in Europe very comfortably.
What a money saver it would be but the detractors would argue that for the low number amount of diversions etc. the cost could not be justified. I don't think the Airlines and Pax would agree with that but I guess the bean counters will always win.

QF 747 ended up in OOL according to this site https://www.facebook.com/qfsecrets/

Yes it did QFA16.
I watched it on Flt Radar24 and listened on Live ATC.
Gold Coast airport only had taxiway parking later in the morning, utter chaos!!
Quite nice being on the other side when this is happening but I do miss the challenge and satisfactory conclusion of a low viz approach. Makes one feel like we have well and truly earned our pay that day!

Cant seem to edit the thread title to read " YBBN FOG "
How is that done?

You can't!! :sad:

But I can!! :E

Happy now?? :}

Thanks. It is good to see it is all correct .
For my information why can't I edit the title when I can edit the post?
Seems a bit odd.

Has it made its way back to BNE yet??

Was all happening this morning. Watched a tigerair scrape in ;) Next 3 arrivals went around.

Qantas 330 went around after that tiger landed, as did Virgin. Virgin immediately diverted to CG but Qantas had a 2nd attempt and got in. Shrug.

Surely the brand new runway will have CAT III capability. Or can't we afford that either.

How long will runway 19 be a nice shiny reflective skid pan in the wet?

And if you've read the notams on brisbane lately......

RWY 01/19 SFC CONDITION CHANGED (DUE MILLING) BTN TWY A4 AND TWY A5
FROM 07 150537 TO 08 150700 EST

What the hell does "due milling" mean relative to braking coefficients on a wet run? Hello, CASA?

Geez Uber!
They would've had no trouble finding the runway! Just head for the noise! :E

We found it easier to get into BN when foggy when following someone who went around. The missed approach power makes big holes in the fog.

Yeah, follow someone else and turn your landing lights off, or so I've heard.

I was told once that YBBN can have Cat 2 but needs electronic visibility and stop bars. Cat 3 not possible due to a too large Qantas hanger near the 19 GP site. New runway is new ball game.

CAT 111, Na, not in the only third world country where you can drink the water.
Much more tax free money to be made building car parks.

Hmmm...the last time I remember a 747 at OOL was around 1982....and it was an empty 'SP'..."City of Gold Coast" ???

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

I remember it flying down the coast.....the 'SP' that is......not this one..

Is that a trick question? The main purpose for milling is to remove contaminants and restore runway texture in order to avoid degraded friction - particularly when wet.

Tail wheel. Do you have an answer for my question below yet ?

"Thanks. It is good to see it is all correct .
For my information why can't I edit the title when I can edit my post?
Seems a bit odd."

Fliegenmong

It was 25JAN81. VH-EAA "City of Gold Coast Tweed" made a series of promotional/training flights in Qld. It arrived OOL from TSV on 25JAN81 and departed the same day for BNE. I can't recall any 747 diversions to OOL prior to yesterdays flight but I suspect there may have been one or two.

Regards

Cloud cutter, the issue is not so much the roughed up section, but the resurfaced bits. Currently those surfaces are ungroved and it appears more akin to a skid pan.
Perhaps someone ploughing through a closed high speed taxiway may alter things.
Oh wait..... That's right, this is a rumour network.

Thorny,
With the very greatest of respect, Low Wx Minima Procedures and associated gear will be available when the airlines agree to pay in increased charges, which they won't.
Tootle

Just a tad over 22 000 000 people went through BNE FY 14-15.

At 10 cents a head that's $2 200 000. Realistically you could charge $1 head and people would never know given the amount of tax/charges that is thrown upon this industry. And that would be a one off infrastructure tax for 12 months not an ongoing one.

Realistically you can fund anything in aviation relatively easily it's just all the BS politics and ideology gets in the way of sound decision making.

You mean like the extra money we already pay for the runway we can't use yet, that hasn't been built?http://cdn.pprune.org/images/infopop/icons/icon11.gif

Bit like the ticket I've had to pay for now, for the flight I haven't had yet.

Well, nothing like it actually. Have a think about it.

It's the business model for the transport industry. Make the punter pay for some or all of your product now, then provide it later. The airlines know it, that's why they agreed.

What happened to the RNP procedures, QF used to use those in the fog.

They need the GBAS system, plain and simple.

GBAS
 

The current GBAS system only allows cat 1 operations but will be able to do Cat11 and even Cat111 further down the track.
Once fully certified it will be by far the best system there is but that does seem quite a way off yet

Satellite Navigation - Ground Based Augmentation System (GBAS)

As a designer of these things, surely you realise they don't do any better that a Cat 1 ILS. How on earth is an RNP going to help in fog?

If airports in India and Africa have LVO you really gotta wonder - Australia is a 3rd world country in regards to aviation infrastructure (barely any LVO, 45m runways and no taxi edge lights such as in Perth).

Fog diversions due to the lack of LVO is like "Guns in America" - it comes up every time there is a mass shooting and nothing gets done anyway.

How was the weather at Brisbane West, aka Toowoomba?

GF

In the dozens of times I've flown over India I reckon the number of times I've seen vis in greater than, say, 5km in Hydrabad, Chennai, Mumbai & Delhi combined, would still be less than the number of times I've seen less than 800m in Brisbane, Melbourne or Sydney individually. Without Low Vis capable approaches, Indian aviation would grind to a halt for more days of the year than Australian airports are almost "cavok".

It's an economic argument. Will the cost of installation and maintenance of a Cat III system outweigh the cost of possibly less than 10 days per year of disruption due to low vis?

It will be interesting to see if the rumoured introduction of a LHR/Europe direct Perth operation by Qantas on the 789 will be preceded by the installation of a Cat III ILS in Perth. Carrying additional fuel for a diversion to Kalgoorlie over 16 or 18 hours would soon add up if the Alternate Criteria remains based on Cat I.

Works to upgrade Perth to Cat III are currently underway and due to be completed by May 2017:

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com...up/a16-h17.pdf

CAT III for PER scheduled to be installed in mid to late 2017 I think.

Oops. There you go. 'Two in together'. Mid 2017 if it runs on time.

Just curious, but what is QF's fuel policy when operating to an airport that's forecast to require LVO? Where I work, we would need an alternate. In the case of PER, that would normally be ADL, so while the availability of a Cat III approach will reduce the number of diversions, it doesn't actually help when it comes to payload capability.


I suspect they'd need to do a shedload of upgrades at Kal to make it suitable for use as an international alternate!

QF need an alternate at airports with LVO. The alternate criteria may be a bit lower than at a non LVO airport but not low enough to mitigate the need for an alternate.

Galaxy, YBWW Welcamp was cavok

In the 767 days we would ideally carry Kalgoorlie or Learmonth or if necessary ADL as an alternate for Perth when operating from HKG, SIN or NRT. As far as I know that's still the case for A330 and would probably be the case for a 789.

I guess it depends on the airline and the approvals it has in place. At CX we can't plan to use Kalgoorlie, Learmonth or Port Hedland, mainly due to the RFF coverage. For us, Kalgoorlie is classed as 'Emergency Use Only'.

We had an A340 divert to Hedland several years ago due to unforecast fog in Perth. The local shire wasn't happy because of the lack of parking space on the apron and told us not to do it again! I'm guessing Kalgoorlie would be similar.

Hedland has quite a large apron now so I suspect they would be more than happy to have you again :ok: