Kalgoorlie suitable as an adequate but can't be planned as an alternate. Learmonth and Adelaide are the closest alternates to Perth for the A330.

Need to get the runway and apron sorted at Karratha Awol57 so I can log in there if needed. At least I know I'd have a place to stay. :D

Keg, I'll get my people onto it :ok:

I reckon our Apron would handle it but we might be a tad short on length. Always the problem!

Looking at the system parameters, it already provides CATIII specs, and several entities are using GBAS for autoland (military). Certification is not that far off.

AWOL, from memory runway length is ok, the taxiway width is the problem, we can't get off the runway.

Can't you use the Internet to do that? :}

I'm going to be bad at work today...

hey we have discussed Perth over and over, lets forget about it until the next event and then re hash again
In the mean time while Brisbane was fogged I'm told Brisbane West was clear, hasn't it got everything you need to park for a while

Brisbane West might be OK for Domestic operations diversions but unless things have changed International Operators can only use an airport that has Customs and Immigration so that leaves out quite a few from being able to use it.

RH, yep granted but what about the domestics particularly Q as they already use it for the Dash particularly if Cooly and Sunny coast are full

Question for Keg maybe, for an international alternate, when the pax are staying on board while the fog clears at the destination, can any suitable airport be used or is customs/immigration required anyway?

Nope. According to S10(1) of the Air Navigation Act 1920, an aircraft arriving from "a place outside Australian territory" must land at an aerodrome designated as an international airport. Under the Act, non-compliance can lead to the imprisonment of the operator and the pilot-in-command for up to two years. The designated international airports are listed in AIP GEN 2. Brisbane West isn't one of them.

In some cases (eg Kalgoorlie, Learmonth, Alice Springs), the passengers and crew must remain onboard the aircraft and then proceed to a major international airport for clearance.

CX has operated a freighter into BNE West on occasion. Dispensation? Or did they operate via CNS or similar? Different rules for freighters?

air nz were in newcastle recently with no drama. i think the taf folks were a bit slow on it that morning in syd.

I think that was a one-off 'proving' flight to show it could be done and to garner a bit of publicity for the owners of the airport. The aircraft flew in to Wellcamp from Sydney and then departed for Hong Kong. I assume they had some kind of dispensation to depart for an international destination from a non-designated airport.

Newcastle/Williamtown is listed in the AIP as a 'Restricted Use International Airport'. Prior approval is normally required, but if the weather in Sydney has turned to poo and you've run out of options then I can't imagine anyone getting too fussed.

You can't plan Williamtown as an alternate I think you will find.

don't think he is referring to using it as a planned alternate, if things turned bad in sydney with low fuel i think id be popping up to newcastle as well

AWOL, Charma...

KGI has an Apron parking plan that includes A330 last time I looked. Doesn't mean of course that your airline allows it.

Likewise, Wellcamp can accommodate domestic 737's, but due no infrastructure (eg stairs) is not currently used as a domestic alternate for my airline.

Correct. I wasn't!

Derfred
Why wouldn't your airline put a set of stairs at BWW just in case? Seems a cheaper option than a more lengthy diversion?

Contracts,support staff etc needed for it to be an 'on line' option

Yeah, it's probably not so much the physical set of stairs but the whole deal. I'm not privvy to the quantum of $$ that is involved in contracting an airport for use as an alternate, but sometimes those $$ are so absurd that my airline does prefer a lengthy diversion.

Avalon was a stand out example - QF didn't use Avalon for many years until a deal was finally done but only at the threat of pulling JQ out completely.

I believe that regular international freight services start in Sept.

There was a chamozzle at BN this morning with arriving aircraft about 7am local, lots of delaying vectors, a 380 MA ect ect. By the time I arrived all solved but didn't hear the cause

Looks like another morning of fun in Brisbane....quite a few bolted to the Gold Coast, QF's A330s from Singapore, Tokyo and Perth all trundling down to Sydney.....EK and SQ sitting out to the West practicing for this weekend's Indy 500.

Appears that JQ have just successfully got the Bali crowd on the deck though...

Probably the fourth time this week.

Impressively Malindo got in every single time... :eek:

Not today.

Must've been really bad!

A bit odd
 

Seems a bit strange that JQ seemed to get in using Auto Land ( This was procedure was transmitted by the crew to the tower ) but others missed out?
Also QF62 from Narita cleared off to Sydney after only one approach.
Gold Coast was wide open so why go to Sydney after all the flight from Narita is not that long if there are a 3 or 4 crew compliment.
Sure it's the Capt's decision but is a bit odd methinks.

Was there sufficient parking available at YBCG? The operator may well have preferred the aircraft in YSSY, not CG. Did one of the crew have hour limitations from previous tour of duty? How about the Captains confidence in the weather? How much fuel did they have to still hold a legal alternate?

There are numerous factors that come into the decision as to where to go. Unless you were there or have the full picture it is very difficult to comprehend the unique issues that each and every crew face. Each flight is different, in a dynamic environment. They appear to have got on the ground safely, so that counts as success in my books.

SA 23/05/2017 19:30 METAR YBCG 231930Z AUTO 26005KT 9999 // NCD 15/15 Q1018 RF00.0/000.2=

SP 23/05/2017 19:23 SPECI YBCG 231923Z AUTO 27005KT 9999 // NCD 15/15 Q1018=

SA 23/05/2017 19:00- METAR YBCG 231900Z AUTO 00000KT 1700 // NCD 15/15 Q1017=

SP 23/05/2017 19:00 SPECI YBCG 231900Z AUTO 00000KT 1700 // NCD 15/15 Q1017=

SA 23/05/2017 18:30 METAR YBCG 231830Z AUTO 00000KT 3300 // NCD 15/15 Q1017 RF00.0/000.2=
SP 23/05/2017 18:30 SPECI YBCG 231830Z AUTO 00000KT 3300 // NCD 15/15 Q1017=

SA 23/05/2017 18:00 METAR YBCG 231800Z AUTO 00000KT 0800 // ////// 15/15 Q1017=

SP 23/05/2017 18:00 SPECI YBCG 231800Z AUTO 00000KT 0800 // ////// 15/15 Q1017=

SP 23/05/2017 17:49 SPECI YBCG 231749Z AUTO 00000KT 6000 // NCD 15/15 Q1017 RF00.0/000.2=

Air Canada and the VA B777 were both using Gold Coast as their alternate. I believe the Qantas 747 has gone there before also. All three aircraft would be at the end of a long haul with less leeway for a long diversion. In addition there are several heavy arrivals into YBCG during the morning. So I daresay parking capacity was a factor.

Frustrating for pax of course as by the time you land in Sydney aircraft are getting into Brisbane again.

Re: diverting to SYD instead of OOL. Often this will be a decision that will be made (or strongly advised) by Operations Control who have the "big picture", rather than the Captain. There are any number of reasons why diverting to OOL may not be appropriate for the airline/airport;

- Parking for an A330 would be limited, especially with every other man and his dog needing to divert.
- Are there enough air stairs available? (Don't think the Q-Ramp will reach an A330)
- Are there flights from USA/Canada/Middle East that might not have fuel for SYD who need OOL more urgently?
- QF do not have an engineer at OOL so if any defect, minor or otherwise, has been written up enroute there will be no one to sign it off so they may not be able to depart.
- Will they be slot restricted when attempting to return to BNE, pushing out crew operating times. SYD is a crew base but OOL is not.
- Are half the pax connecting elsewhere and would be better of connecting out of SYD to their final destination as they'll miss their BNE connections now? Then put the BNE pax on domestic services or a spare 737.

I guess I'm saying that there are bunch of considerations that the operating crew may not be aware of when planning where to divert to and the closest option may not be the best.

I'm not familiar with all the services on offer at Wellcamp, but I'm guessing that the lack of ATC, insufficient RFFS (Probably just the town fire brigade?) and lack of customs is the reason it can't be used as an alternate for international flights?

morno

Beer Baron and Morno .
 

I do understand there are lots of sometimes valid reasons but from my personal experiences in the past Flight Operations have seemed to be more concerned about aircraft positioning rather than getting passengers to where they were supposed to be .
Also YBCG does already have A330 ops into there so stairs should not be a problem.
There are not that many flights in and out of there at that time of day but as you mention if quite a few divert there could be congestion but at the time QF diverted there was only 1 diverted to YBCG ( from memory ).
Anyway I was just curious as to why such a quick diversion and also why others were going around but JQ did an autoland !
Wellcamp cannot be used at this time as an International Flights alternate because it does not have customs and immigration and needs that to be designated as an International Alternate.
Maybe in the future but not now!

A lot of companies do not allow autoland on a Cat 1 ILS.

Fortunately the advent of onboard wifi will soon allow crews to consult PPrune directly when working out the best place to divert, so there'll be no need to rely on Ops Control or their own knowledge, experience and grasp of the unfolding situation.

More to the point: the ability to autoland or not makes no difference to Cat1 minima.:hmm:

No fuel supply contract in west wellcamp. I suspect other services may not br in place - for qf at least.

Ool was sketch as per the metars but the taf had no requirements ... hmmm handy if you just want to use it to make a shot for not much fuel required.

Everyone seemed to get in aftr jetstar so it was improving at that point, worse earlier

Back at the beginning, OP asked to change title of thread.

You can do this if you can still edit the original post. When you edit a post, look at the lower right, Go Advanced button.

In this mode, one can change the title of the thread.

YBCG has limited parking when all & sundry bound for BNE need to divert. Not so long ago, when holding for weather at BNE, everyone was advised that YBCG was not available to any aircraft that had not planned it as their alternate. The company struggled to get their head around that one! "Where do you want us to go?" "Cooly". "Cooly not available, we have Sydney or Rocky fuel in the tanks, where do you want us to go?" "Cooly". :ugh:

Wouldn't have happened when old Jo run QLD, next it will be blamed on global warming or bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef!

Wonder what the costs add up to for all these diversions?
Also wonder why Australia as a supposed first world country
doesn't have CAT 111 available at the primaries?
Probably more money to be made building car parks I guess.
Passenger convenience always seems to come last against
the imperative of making tax free dollars, unless of course
the tax payers stump up.