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Just In: Virgin Australia strikes partnership with China's HNA
Virgin Australia strikes airline deal with China's HNA Aviation - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Change the name from Virgin "Australia" to Virgin "Everywhere"!

Nah! It's Virgin-on-The-Ridiculous. I can't decide if this saga is a comic opera or a tragedy of significant proportions that even Shakespeare couldn't better.

Maybe they'll become Lucky Virgin Airlines! :cool:

All flight numbers to have as many 8's in them as possible !

At last, some Communist Overlords to show us Capitalist running dogs the way of the great chairman! :}

In fairness HNA Airlines is one of the few privately (and therefore capitalist) owned arlines in China. Sadly, we will have to wait longer before we can learn the tricks of the workers paradise :(

It truly is... this would have to be the worst run airline in the region... yes, Ansett collapsed in part due to bad financial management in the 80s/90s but it still had airline professionals in its management ranks. VA in every category is poorly managed. What gets me is how the mail room bloke has survived. We all know there's some who still blame Air NZ for Ansett's demise but Air NZ is a very different company now and arguably one of the best run airlines in the world and they want out which speaks volumes.

Air NZ......... Karma.

I think NZ have learned their lesson well.

They were very foolish to get involved with the disaster waiting to happen that was AN. The unprofessional NZ management of that era allowed themselves to get panicked into the foolish decision of going from a 50% stake in a dying airline to a 100% stake in a dying airline - if they had done a due diligence rather than panicking they would have known not to throw good money after bad. They should have allowed SQ to buy the other 50% AN would still have died (let's be honest, it was such a mess of over staffing and absurd fleet decisions that nothing could have saved it in a deregulated environment ) but NZ would have taken much less of a hit both financially and reputationally from the demise.

VA is showing every sign of turning themselves into AN mark II and NZ should exit as quickly as possible.

Without the artificially protected environment of the two airline policy the Australian market simply isn't big enough for two full service carriers. Virgin Blue may have been a bit rough around the edges, but I would argue they were far closer to what the market needed ( and could support) than Virgin Australia's attempt at being a second Qantas.

Some analysis :cool:

HNA Flies to the Wrong Destination - Bloomberg Gadfly

All VA needs now is to hire Toomey and its MA...

That is a big claim AP, do you have any specific examples? Evidence?

It's some positive news for 1600 pilots so that's hardly a bad thing.

It's also money into the economy so again, that's hardly a bad thing.

Folks,
Can't speak for anything about commercial aspects of the group, but HNA Airlines are technically very competent, and has, for many years, worked closely in conjunction with Lufthansa for technical training and standards.

At executive level, all the people I have met have had post graduate degrees from (mostly) US universities (Harvard, Stanford, MIT), in two cases their first degrees were ANU. At a lower level, they were all graduates of the Lufthansa Technical School.

In their "day jobs" they have been quite impressive in a practical approach to the real world.

Tootle pip!!

Some good news. They still need another few hundred million. Who else will buy in?

LinFox and his little buddy?? Nooooo!!

Q: How do you make a small fortune investing in Virgin?
A: Start with a large one!
Boom Boom :}

Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong ( HK ) Express are part of the HNA airline group. Hong Kong Airlines fly to OOL and CNS.

Jetstar (Hong Kong) efforts to become established in HKG were stymied by the HNA Group and HK Express a HKG based LCC.

Expect to see more Chinese on Virgin and the possibility of a Virgin A330 in Haikou.

Probably not Haikou, B772, more likely the routes that HNA airlines are getting shut out of... HKG to SYD/MEL, or CAN/PEK/PVG to Aus. The former losing to CX, the latter losing out to the 3 big state owned groups.

Kiwiandrew

Hate to let facts get in the way of things but the following quote from a post in 2004 is on the money. The true facts never saw the light of day.

As to HNA, one of the biggest Ponzi schemes among many in China.


I hate to ruin a good stoush so will go no further back in time than the late 90's.

Personally, I think our friend the Night Owl gives conspiratorial credit where it is not totally due.

Indeed Singapore plays a central role in this pantomine but for somewhat different reasons. By 2000 it had long become the HQ of one Brierley Investments, the major shareholder in AirNZ and therefore indirectly a major figure in the 50% of Ansett not owned by News Corp.

Air NZ had pre-emptive rights on the balance 50% of Ansett should it come up for sale.

News Corp wanted and needed to exit. They found a buyer in SQ and spent a lot of time stitching together a deal for AUD 500m that would ensure the recapitalisation and fleet renewal of Ansett and provide a footprint for the Star Alliance in Oceania.

Whilst I agree that AirNZ tried to blindside and outsmart SQ, this was only cobbled together in response to immense pressure from Selwyn Cushing and his fellow travellers who shared the same conflict of interest...namely being directors of both Brierley and AirNZ.

Air NZ,given the price they paid for the first 50% of Ansett, and through them Brierley, would have to make substantial write-downs on their investments (AirNZ in Ansett and Brierley in AirNZ) if the direct deal between Ansett and SQ went through.

Selwyn Cushing used his immense influence (and Brierley voting block) as Chairman of AirNZ to force AirNZ to bet the whole company.

Sure they banked on the NZ Govt to come to their rescue, and there was a certain amount of naive arrogance in thinking that SQ would pour good money after bad, but that all came after Selwyn Cushing (as Chairman of AirNZ and Brierley) decided to put HIS national carrier at risk to protect Brierley Investments balance sheet (which could ill afford to take a write down of that magnitude).

In my view the Hall of Shame is missing one portrait...and one that is very much alive and indeed very wealthy at the expense of many.

Well he may be knighted but I suggest he be better stuffed and mounted in the above Hall of Shame.

"let's be honest, it was such a mess of over staffing and absurd fleet decisions"

Thread drift I know but, what exactly were the "staffing issues"? And what absurd fleet decisions?

Interesting commentary in the AFR suggesting James Hogan was behind it and that JB is out in 2016

Life after Virgin for James Hogan, Christopher Luxon, John Borghetti? | afr.com

Life after Virgin for James Hogan, Christopher Luxon, John Borghetti?

http://i.imgur.com/KEbeupu.png
http://i.imgur.com/MAEHkM5.png

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busi...09-gpfw5q.html

Looks like Air New Zealand has found a buyer, also Chinese.

Yes, crew meals now flied lice and dim sum!

No chance of VA crew meals becoming edible, TBM.

Interesting to see the Virgin saga continue with the airline now to be controlled by Asian interests. Stand by for the capital raising announcement.

James Hogan would not be happy with the AFR article referring to him as a former Ansett trolley dolly. From memory James worked on the check-in counter in the International Terminal at Tullamarine.

Interesting the same paper had an article trumpeting a young entrepreneur (who's start up was fully backed by their rich Dad) yet a guy who has risen to the top of a listed company from a entry level position is given that rather demeaning write up.

Nanshan Group own 55% of Qingdao Airlines....... what are the odds that there is a side deal done back in China? evens or better??;)

Do not know anything about Qingdao Airlines but should you ever visit Qingdao make sure you visit or stay at the Hilton Golden Beach. It is an eye opener.

Great news for the A330 crews that will get to fly somewhere other than to Perth daily !

Provided that they don't open up an China crew base

I think China is still a net importer of A330 pilots. It's the Aus side of the traffic rights they want. And if I have to ferry Chinese tourists between Aus and China for them, I say Ni Hao and welcome.

So you've never experienced the 'delights' of operating in Chinese airspace then (think 'Bizarro-world').

That's an eye-opener as well.

I guess the next V Learn is going to be "Mandarin in 5 easy lessons". I wouldn't worry about it too much GW, Cairns and Hammo are already like that.

Why is Virgin Australia considered an Australian airline when it is not Australian owned??

The ownership structure of the international airline is different to that of the domestic airline.

Domestic airlines are allowed to be 100% foreign owned, whereas Australian designated international carriers must be 51% Australian owned.

The exception to all of this is Qantas by virtue of the Qantas sale act - how exactly it differs I couldn't tell you as I have not bothered to look other than I remember the discussion when VA split itself up into different entities in order to facilitate the differing ownership structures.

Albeit Virgin's structure is a little too 'cute' imho.

Reportedly the shareholding structure was 'grandfathered' before the foreign airlines bought in when it still was 51% Australian owned.

Albeit - the International airline doesn't seem to have a separate management team, or Board (although it seemingly did initially), it doesn't publish separate financials and given the recent losses in Qantas International, assuming Virgin was the same, it would seem strange that foreign shareholders would make shareholder loans that ultimately support an entity in which they have no interest

And then you have Tiger which obviously previously couldn't fly internationally (being 100% Singapore owned) now operating under this structure.

Qantas must remain at least 51% Australian owned This is enshrined in the Qantas Sale Act that was passed by the Australian Parliament. On the other hand, the international arm of Virgin Australia is notionally Australian owned but reality may suggest otherwise. Some very clever but legal structures were devised by VA to circumvent the requirement that Australian flag carriers be "Australian owned" to the extent that they have established that the international subsidiary complies with that requirement. Just how that is so remains a mystery to me.

As an aside, I think it's very bad government policy that an Australian domestic airline can be 100% foreign owned. Why are we allowing anything that moves to be dominated by foreign interest? :ugh::ugh::mad::mad:

So where is the media, Shorten, ACTU, CMFEU, MUA, Katter, Barnaby etc etc crying about a great Australian enterprise falling into Chinese/ foreign ownership

Air New Zealand already owned the shares? It was already foreign owned.

As long as they keep Aussie jobs I don't see how it matters. The majority of the wealth the country has seen in the last 10 years has been off the back of foreign owned companies.