Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

A new player joins VA.

Old 31st May 2016, 01:03
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A new player joins VA.

Just In: Virgin Australia strikes partnership with China's HNA
Virgin Australia strikes airline deal with China's HNA Aviation - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 31st May 2016, 04:40
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Change the name from Virgin "Australia" to Virgin "Everywhere"!
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Old 31st May 2016, 06:27
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Change the name from Virgin "Australia" to Virgin "Everywhere"!
Nah! It's Virgin-on-The-Ridiculous. I can't decide if this saga is a comic opera or a tragedy of significant proportions that even Shakespeare couldn't better.
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Old 31st May 2016, 06:28
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Virgin Australia strikes partnership with China's HNA
Maybe they'll become Lucky Virgin Airlines!
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Old 31st May 2016, 07:19
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All flight numbers to have as many 8's in them as possible !
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Old 31st May 2016, 09:12
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At last, some Communist Overlords to show us Capitalist running dogs the way of the great chairman!
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Old 1st Jun 2016, 23:22
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At last, some Communist Overlords to show us Capitalist running dogs the way of the great chairman!
In fairness HNA Airlines is one of the few privately (and therefore capitalist) owned arlines in China. Sadly, we will have to wait longer before we can learn the tricks of the workers paradise
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 04:58
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough View Post
Nah! It's Virgin-on-The-Ridiculous. I can't decide if this saga is a comic opera or a tragedy of significant proportions that even Shakespeare couldn't better.
It truly is... this would have to be the worst run airline in the region... yes, Ansett collapsed in part due to bad financial management in the 80s/90s but it still had airline professionals in its management ranks. VA in every category is poorly managed. What gets me is how the mail room bloke has survived. We all know there's some who still blame Air NZ for Ansett's demise but Air NZ is a very different company now and arguably one of the best run airlines in the world and they want out which speaks volumes.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 05:07
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
It truly is... this would have to be the worst run airline in the region... yes, Ansett collapsed in part due to bad financial management in the 80s/90s but it still had airline professionals in its management ranks. VA in every category is poorly managed. What gets me is how the mail room bloke has survived. We all know there's some who still blame Air NZ for Ansett's demise but Air NZ is a very different company now and arguably one of the best run airlines in the world and they want out which speaks volumes.
Air NZ......... Karma.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 05:43
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I think NZ have learned their lesson well.

They were very foolish to get involved with the disaster waiting to happen that was AN. The unprofessional NZ management of that era allowed themselves to get panicked into the foolish decision of going from a 50% stake in a dying airline to a 100% stake in a dying airline - if they had done a due diligence rather than panicking they would have known not to throw good money after bad. They should have allowed SQ to buy the other 50% AN would still have died (let's be honest, it was such a mess of over staffing and absurd fleet decisions that nothing could have saved it in a deregulated environment ) but NZ would have taken much less of a hit both financially and reputationally from the demise.

VA is showing every sign of turning themselves into AN mark II and NZ should exit as quickly as possible.

Without the artificially protected environment of the two airline policy the Australian market simply isn't big enough for two full service carriers. Virgin Blue may have been a bit rough around the edges, but I would argue they were far closer to what the market needed ( and could support) than Virgin Australia's attempt at being a second Qantas.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 05:54
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Some analysis

HNA Flies to the Wrong Destination - Bloomberg Gadfly
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 11:42
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All VA needs now is to hire Toomey and its MA...
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 11:59
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VA in every category is poorly managed.
That is a big claim AP, do you have any specific examples? Evidence?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 12:04
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It's some positive news for 1600 pilots so that's hardly a bad thing.

It's also money into the economy so again, that's hardly a bad thing.
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 03:10
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Folks,
Can't speak for anything about commercial aspects of the group, but HNA Airlines are technically very competent, and has, for many years, worked closely in conjunction with Lufthansa for technical training and standards.

At executive level, all the people I have met have had post graduate degrees from (mostly) US universities (Harvard, Stanford, MIT), in two cases their first degrees were ANU. At a lower level, they were all graduates of the Lufthansa Technical School.

In their "day jobs" they have been quite impressive in a practical approach to the real world.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 04:55
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Some good news. They still need another few hundred million. Who else will buy in?
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 08:03
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LinFox and his little buddy?? Nooooo!!

Q: How do you make a small fortune investing in Virgin?
A: Start with a large one!
Boom Boom
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 13:12
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Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong ( HK ) Express are part of the HNA airline group. Hong Kong Airlines fly to OOL and CNS.

Jetstar (Hong Kong) efforts to become established in HKG were stymied by the HNA Group and HK Express a HKG based LCC.

Expect to see more Chinese on Virgin and the possibility of a Virgin A330 in Haikou.
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Old 5th Jun 2016, 06:20
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Probably not Haikou, B772, more likely the routes that HNA airlines are getting shut out of... HKG to SYD/MEL, or CAN/PEK/PVG to Aus. The former losing to CX, the latter losing out to the 3 big state owned groups.
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Old 5th Jun 2016, 06:26
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Kiwiandrew

Hate to let facts get in the way of things but the following quote from a post in 2004 is on the money. The true facts never saw the light of day.

As to HNA, one of the biggest Ponzi schemes among many in China.


I hate to ruin a good stoush so will go no further back in time than the late 90's.

Personally, I think our friend the Night Owl gives conspiratorial credit where it is not totally due.

Indeed Singapore plays a central role in this pantomine but for somewhat different reasons. By 2000 it had long become the HQ of one Brierley Investments, the major shareholder in AirNZ and therefore indirectly a major figure in the 50% of Ansett not owned by News Corp.

Air NZ had pre-emptive rights on the balance 50% of Ansett should it come up for sale.

News Corp wanted and needed to exit. They found a buyer in SQ and spent a lot of time stitching together a deal for AUD 500m that would ensure the recapitalisation and fleet renewal of Ansett and provide a footprint for the Star Alliance in Oceania.

Whilst I agree that AirNZ tried to blindside and outsmart SQ, this was only cobbled together in response to immense pressure from Selwyn Cushing and his fellow travellers who shared the same conflict of interest...namely being directors of both Brierley and AirNZ.

Air NZ,given the price they paid for the first 50% of Ansett, and through them Brierley, would have to make substantial write-downs on their investments (AirNZ in Ansett and Brierley in AirNZ) if the direct deal between Ansett and SQ went through.

Selwyn Cushing used his immense influence (and Brierley voting block) as Chairman of AirNZ to force AirNZ to bet the whole company.

Sure they banked on the NZ Govt to come to their rescue, and there was a certain amount of naive arrogance in thinking that SQ would pour good money after bad, but that all came after Selwyn Cushing (as Chairman of AirNZ and Brierley) decided to put HIS national carrier at risk to protect Brierley Investments balance sheet (which could ill afford to take a write down of that magnitude).

In my view the Hall of Shame is missing one portrait...and one that is very much alive and indeed very wealthy at the expense of many.

Well he may be knighted but I suggest he be better stuffed and mounted in the above Hall of Shame.
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