-Base $110,000
-DTA and Highline $17000
-Overtime, very conservative at 10hrs for 10 months of year : $14000 some rosters you may get 20- 30hrs OT at approx $140 an hour

Work Day Off- anywhere between $1000 and $1800 depending on flight hours. So assuming you do 1-2 work day offs a month one at min and the other say 4 sectors for 10 months thats
- around $15000-$28000 in day off payments. In some cases you wont lose total number of days due to having another rostered day taken off you. Again depends on how you get rostered. I have heard of 9 work day offs in one month by someone!

6 percent bonus plus an additional 5 percent was paid this financial year:
-$12000

And back pay of about
-$7000 - $8000

Add all that up and you will get very close to 200. It all depends on individual and how they have worked ie more overnights or more/ less OT etc...

Ah I see, EBA back pay and bonus comes into it. Thanks.

185k for one of the best years of your life.

if thats how you wanna spend it, by all means go nuts.

Hmm, I also would have thought that the very recruitment that this thread is talking about would reduce these additional components?

I can't imagine the Company is happy paying $15-28000 a year to somebody for working on Days meant to be Off Days, let alone a good proportion of 1000 odd employees getting it.

A couple of Jetstar guys I know were complaining that these day off payments, along with the overtime component, had become rare as Hens teeth a couple of years ago (it seemed they'd become used to getting it and perhaps had become reliant on it). The current situation is probably a result of the complete lack of recruitment over the recent past, while the usual attrition has been going on still, and that has created somewhat of a shortage. The same has been true for QF, though theres no such thing as 'Day Off' payments, many have been flying lots of hours and earning a fair way above minimum guaranteed pay. Regardless, now that things are moving on the recruitment front again I'd 'bank'(!) on them stuffing it up in the other direction and overdoing the recruiting again. Such is life in an Airline.

Not saying that JQ folk aren't having a good year this year either (well, if you like getting flogged for coin), but lets not kid newbys into thinking this is the norm. As with any job, bank on minimums; bonus pay is exactly that, a bonus.

All Valid points. The LCC model is based on crew working overtime, not sitting on 600hrs a year. While Jetstar continue to roster without using a proper bidding system guys are going to UFD and not come in on particular days that they need off, or simply cant be bothered doing. Other guys will either pick this up on STBy or WDO. Another 50 (as indicated by GS) people joining the company wont change things significantly in the grand scheme of things. Especially since this is mostly to cover annual leave and QF guys going back and some wide body movement. Slightly less WDOs, and slightly less OT yes. The company lends itself to using STBs and WDOs on a faily regular bases. Ports with no Engineering coverage/ delays due min turn around times/ rostering errors / carrying MELs/ rosterting such that any delay results in crew walking of..etc etc.. why come in and waste a Saturday if your not in OT or get rostered a 2 sector day? Its the system, its far from great but that comes down to many other factors.

It's just the way it is. Right now the company is short and working the troops hard. They will over recruit like last time and grow into it.

Another 50 FOs will become 100 with attrition for the campaign. Which means there should be a few commands coming shortly too. Hasn't been much in that regard since about 2013.

Work Day Off payments are an abuse of the pilot community. Just goes to show how shallow pilots are as a group are, by accepting these payments we simply allow the company to operate without truly exposing the crewing levels for what they are.

The thing that makes me laugh is that FO's will sit there complaining about the lack of Command opportunities but don't have a problem with Captains working on days off. Can you imagine how many command positions would be generated for FO's if no Captains worked on days off?

During the recent EBA negotiations I asked one of the pilot managers what their thoughts would be on removing all payments for working on days off. The initial reaction was the manager saying that the company would be ecstatic to get rid of the payment and save some money, he then asked 'why would a pilot work on a day off if they don't get a payment for it?', my answer was 'exactly!'. Suffice to say the pilot manager then changed his mind and said the company would not entertain removing the day off payment.

We bitch and moan about fatigue and rest, lack of commands, lack of crewing etc but we prop up these practices by selling our rest and days off for a few bucks.

So next time you fly with a CP on a day off, that is your command, and next time as an FO you work a day off, that is a seat a new pilot could be filling.

exactly ollie. exactly.

Amen to that. There's a difference between applying a bit of goodwill (if the company has earned it) to help out on the odd occasion, and selling off all your workmates' future Ts and Cs for a few bucks in the short term. Some employers need constant reminding that goodwill is a two-way street.

Well said Ollie! :D:D:D

Oh Ollie. Sweetie, I really am getting quite attracted to you. Classic post. :D :ok:

Since day one JQ has always relied on WDO payments. It was only with the QF life raft strategy that numbers advanced to the point of where we all believed they should be and such payments were rare as hens teeth.

Now the love boat occupants are spreading their wings back to the mothership we will once again play a game of cat and mouse. And what Melbourne view as monitarily efficient, we always view as operationally inefficient. At the end of the day it's their train set.

I don't think any of us believes an extra 20 commands will help career aspirations for anyone apart from the anointed 20. Great motivation for a short term though in 12 months we are back here again.

The phone rings:

"$1000 to push a few buttons and talk in sequence"

"No, it's all smoke and mirrors to stop you from hiring more pilots"

Ha.

I'd take the Day Off any day. It's locked in.

If you take the 90 rostered hours: only to lose 10 hours at the end of the month due "training" and you lose money.

Pilots: take the money. If a new recruit wants the job, you not doing a day off wont do a thing. They'll find someone else who will do it.


I think: the guys here are promoting to other JQ pilots to say no to day off work so that they can get more day off work. Don't believe their bull****.

ROH111, each to their own, just remember that some of us prefer to work less than MGH and have a life if possible - that's why we became airplane drivers and not doctors or law-talkin' folk.

Working less than MGH in the countries biggest LCC, sorry almost fell off my chair. Oh and by the way, as I recall our opportunity to stand united and not work WDos was 2 years ago, remember. Grow up the lot of you.

And here we have a showing of the caliber of people Jetstar hires.....

Anyone heard anything recently? Put my application in over a month ago with very similar experience of what I am hearing most people who have been recruited have had. My application has been sitting at "under review" for weeks with no other contact?

2 courses starting in August composed of people who interviewed in June.

Anymore news about recruitment either in Oz or NZ for JQ?

Apparently some Oz based crew have been sent over to NZ to help fill the gaps in FO ranks! Things must be getting tight with JQ crew?!!!

Currently 15 new FO's training for NZ, so probably that will be it until they are on line, there is a need for a further 50-100 FO's in OZ.

For guys thinking of joining:
Average hours for last 7 years: 640/year. Never cracked 700hours.

Annual summary 2015 around $130+ with almost no OT, 2016: $185+ to give you an indication of bonuses and a fair amount of OT. I am a level 3 320 FO. Day off payments are rare in my base as we aren't flogged as hard. This financial year will probably be about 700-750hrs when I finally do the logbook before my next medical.
Overtime and day off payments vary greatly from base to base (extra 300hrs or $50k at a guess) that will also change a little as crewing levels change. If you want to do less hours, try Flexi line.

Jetstar does offer a few lifestyle options (long haul vs short haul, flexi line and choice of base) (control over your roster definitely is NOT one) but you will be working for the rest of your life. Time to command: current upgrades I'm guessing have been here 9 years or more. I've been here over 8 and if I'm lucky I may have a chance next year. Not sure about time to command for new joiners but I guess Jetstar doesn't have the retirement rate or fleet growth that many mature airlines have. JQ has had its growth spurt. If you're just looking for a step up, that probably doesn't phase you.

Biggest pro for me: time at home with family. Stable employer.
Biggest negative: No roster control/input (apart from a few day off requests which are unpredictable). It is and always will be a LCC.

9 years and no upgrade?? Joined in 2007?

You on HR's naughty list or something?

How likely is it they will expand the 787 fleet?

Bloody great company to work for.

Good money, good allowances, wide variety of flying.

Best of all, the flight crew standards are great and there is always a move to improve in relation to both check and training and best practices operationally.

They are constantly trying to cut costs in areas that will often be of irritation to you but never a safety of flight threat.

Actual just culture works and his respected by everyone I've come across.

They provide open and public feedback on the C and T department too, not sure if you're going to find that with too many other operators.

Great base options and there is less screwing with the rosters than Tiger for example, although it certainly does happen at times.

Biggest downside will be your time to command (again because of the median age of captains) although if you're young this should be of little influence. If all the captains were leaving then that might tell you a different story about the company.

We make money and have good prospects to remain in the black for years to come, but don't tell anyone!

I take it Willie that you have enjoyed your first two months.

I think what Hawk Circle is trying to say is......

How much sick leave do you fellas get?

Number of overnights very greatly depending on your fleet and base. You can bid to avoid or accrue overnights. What's your base of choice and I might be able to give something more concrete.

Roster is very stable once published, with the caveat of disruptions meaning you may be called out on standby and could be displaced from your next duty. If your base is busy that probably means a lot of call outs. Normally you only get 3-4 standby days per month. The EBA and day of ops agreement have some good basic clauses for lifestyle protection. We don't have draft.

Not overly sure what boomerang has been smoking but from working at the same airline I can assure you it is about a million miles from rosy

Similar questions - Melbourne would be preferred base

Well then, rather than have a vague whinge why don't you provide something concrete for these new guys? My experience here, overall, is positive, otherwise I wouldn't stay. There is definitely room for improvement and sometimes they really do 'try it on', but what other Australian carrier would you rather work for and why aren't you there?

You hit the nail on the head with the 'try it on' airlines basically. Sorry didn't mean to have a go, came out wrong after a very long 4 sector day.

I think what was mentioned earlier, saying that if you're flying a jet for the first time and basically 'upgrading' with Jetstar, it is worth it, but don't expect it to be rosy at all := . If you're on a check and training job in GA on something turbine/jet/and or multi-crew, you might be better staying put where you are.

The crew at Jetstar are home every night, rarely doing overnights, pay is ok, leave is entitled to each pilot every year, but goodluck trying to get the time off WHEN you want it off :ugh:. Guys are doing about 900 hours are year realistically, sure you can work part time but the company has to agree to it, you can bet how well that goes down at this time when they need so many pilots.

Duties are around 10hrs long on average sign-on to sign-off, usually 4-5 days on a week. Around 11 days off a month. Days are quite long when you factor in driving through traffic, catching the airport bus then walking to the crew room before and after your duties. Scheduling is usually 4 sectors or 2 long sectors. Rest between duties can be quite minimal (9 hours sometimes) which is legal believe it or not! Try driving 1 hour home through traffic and 1 hour to work in the morning, then playing sport for 1-2 hours and seeing your kids/wife another hour and what are you left with maybe 5 hours to sleep??:zzz: :bored: But it's ok!:ooh: because the new CEO likes to put in his email footer that safety is our number one priority, as long as we say that and print it everywhere, it means we are being safe.:ok: Regardless of the fact that crew are being made to do ridiculous back-of-clock trips and are putting multiple fatigue safety reports in every week which are being ignored due to officially there being 'not enough cumulative data'. Well just wait for the next accident to occur and i'm sure there will be enough 'data' to reconsider it!:mad: There's a reason Qantas just about never do 2 crew back-of-clock return flights. Which airline really cares about safety?:rolleyes::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Time to command is probably 10+ years easily, most captains are 35-40 years old. Yes there are mid 30-year old captains on the 787! (nothing against that btw) Most of the 99 NEO A320's QF have ordered are not being added to Jetstar's fleet, but replacing older CEO A320's so the fleet isn't going to expand, neither in long-haul. Jetstar isn't getting any more 787's for the foreseeable future. Again, as mentioned, Jetstar's huge growth spurt has come and gone, the industry itself doesn't have much more capacity to expand domestically, not like it did 5-6 years ago anyway. The best you can hope for is some expansion into Asia-pacific when the NEO's arrive, but that will be minor compared to their expansion previously. Word's recently from a wide-body FO who's been in the company 7 years already, he says it's another 3-4 years before he's due for a command.

It is what it is, there are worse airlines to work for. Jump on in, do your time and move on elsewhere to bigger and better things. Goodluck :ok:




*I don't claim to work for them, but this info is accurate and first-hand*

BlackPrince has given a fair account so it gives you an idea what you are in for in a big/busy base. I'm lucky to be in a quieter base, but that said we have seen what can happen to quieter bases. Hobart, Adelaide, Darwin were all closed at various times so it is indeed not all rosy. Looking at MEL, pilots are on average 92 (credit/block) hours for the month. Overnights are hard to judge, but looks like a few per month roughly. Maybe someone in base can comment. Many big bases are in the same boat. 90 hours a month for several month is not fun and unfortunately I don't see this changing until a significant number of new pilots have joined.

Mmm I can tell you that Im earning a crap load more as a FO at JQ on the 320 and enjoying a better lifestyle than I ever was doing C/T on turboprops. But if thats your thing then stay in GA or regionals by all means- someones gotta do it. As for JQ it is what it is, do what is best for your sutuation. Wait and join QF or there is always Emirates or Cathay; they are really popular.... :D:D

Pilots make me laugh.

When you're not working hard you whinge about no overtime. When you're working hard you whinge about working hard.

The above poster is obviously Sydney base, and unless you have a necessity to live in Sydney, go to another base. You'll be much happier. You'll probably live longer too.

The pays good now at the star, the lifestyle bases are there and whilst it's slowed down for time to command, it's the same in every other major Australian jet operator. Historically in all airlines you'd be lucky to see the left seat of a jet in Australia in 15 years.

I think many pilots in Australia got unrealistic expectations of progression in the post Ansett period. In reality, there was certainly a bit of growth, but the young guys pretty much took the commands from guys who had waited their 15 years as the new airlines grew into the formers footprint.

Why obviously Sydney? The F/O's in Melbourne and Brisbane are working big hours as well. With the overtime and WDO payments some F/O's are netting 12k a month. Try achieving that in GA.

It's great making 12K net a month but if you are working your Days off what QOL is that?
No point being the richest man in the graveyard.....

Completely agree with you HTL, I was just trying to demonstrate that there is a big difference in net pay at the moment between GA and jet F/O positions. The QOL issues are more relevant to the family people (as a generalisation) but with families comes financial pressures so the money does help them. Everything in aviation is cyclical though and there will be a time when the hours drop and paypackets shrink.

Totally agree with you as well Lookleft - You've described pretty much the situation I'm in. I have a young child with my wife on Mat leave so initially flying these 90-100hr rosters was great for the extra $$$, now I'm in the 6th month of doing these sorts of hours and I can tell you that it is starting to hurt. Prior to having my child I wondered why everyone was complaining about the hours / control over rosters etc...now I'm a father I completely sympathise and agree! FYI I'm in a 'lifestyle' base i.e. not SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL so we are getting flogged everywhere across the network (except maybe our PER brothers and sisters)

I was exactly the same HTL, when I didn't have kids I often thought people were moaning a bit much but my opinion changed when the down time at home and ability to sleep undisturbed dried up! Maybe they should put an age limit on pilots of 35 ?